Adnan, do you have ADD ?
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Because you seem incapable of continuing a discussion beyond two iterations ( and you usually change the subject for those two ), here again is just one of the responses I have made which you ignored, while jumping on chances to respond to places where you could make do with an insult. As an aside, are there any other Muslims here who can respond to my questions and make clear to me if Adnan's via of Islam is correct ? I am actually interested, and very disappointed that he'd rather name call than discuss. And Adnan, don't fool yourself that you've hit some sort of nerve. Every passing day, your opinion matters to me less because of how you conduct yourself here. I am just trying to cut through your self righteousness, by making clear that you are incapable of discussing these issues, and that you're posting here to make yourself feel right, by replying only to things that you feel you know the answer to. And, you plainly don't, it's clear you have no idea what a Christian believes. The difference between us is, I know I don't understand Islam fully, that is why I keep asking you about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Very easy, by noticing conflict. for instance if there is an article in which a block is coded as: if(condtion){ foo++; } and then there is another article with your name where I find: if(condtion){foo=foo+1;} OK - I give up. What sources do you rely on to know what Jesus really said, as opposed to what others claim He said ? Adnan Siddiqi wrote: If there was no such errors in Bible, there was no reason to 'Islam' was sent on earth. And yet, the existance of the New Testament does not assume any errors in the OId. Instead it assumes a God whose will had been accurately recorded, and was being fulfilled. That's where Christianity assumes a more powerful God than Islam, one who is able to make sure that His will is accurately preserved and presented to future generations. Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Now God as a Product Owner knew that His product was not transferred properly and people had screwed it up after certain period. Thus he sent another manager with same product(the message) with new cover(Quran now). The message is same but different cover. OK - but you have to either reject the New Testament, or reject the Quran, they are mutually incompatible. You reject the New Testament, fair enough. But on what basis do you then not reject Jesus also ? Adnan Si
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Because he insists he has the answers, and because I am genuinely interested in hearing them. As far as I can see, he needs to either tell me he has no answer ( which would undermine his whole belief system ), explain the answers to me, or accept that anything he says here, is against a backdrop of him being unable to answer the sort of questions he throws at us all the time.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Keeps him entertained on long-haul flights or while waiting for builds?
-------------------------------------------------------- Knowledge is knowing that the tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is not putting it in fruit salad!!
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Because he insists he has the answers, and because I am genuinely interested in hearing them. As far as I can see, he needs to either tell me he has no answer ( which would undermine his whole belief system ), explain the answers to me, or accept that anything he says here, is against a backdrop of him being unable to answer the sort of questions he throws at us all the time.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Christian Graus wrote:
he insists he has the answers, and because I am genuinely interested in hearing them.
Same here, and all I ever see is nonsense babble. Still waiting for some real answer from him, if they even exist. :suss:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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Because you seem incapable of continuing a discussion beyond two iterations ( and you usually change the subject for those two ), here again is just one of the responses I have made which you ignored, while jumping on chances to respond to places where you could make do with an insult. As an aside, are there any other Muslims here who can respond to my questions and make clear to me if Adnan's via of Islam is correct ? I am actually interested, and very disappointed that he'd rather name call than discuss. And Adnan, don't fool yourself that you've hit some sort of nerve. Every passing day, your opinion matters to me less because of how you conduct yourself here. I am just trying to cut through your self righteousness, by making clear that you are incapable of discussing these issues, and that you're posting here to make yourself feel right, by replying only to things that you feel you know the answer to. And, you plainly don't, it's clear you have no idea what a Christian believes. The difference between us is, I know I don't understand Islam fully, that is why I keep asking you about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Very easy, by noticing conflict. for instance if there is an article in which a block is coded as: if(condtion){ foo++; } and then there is another article with your name where I find: if(condtion){foo=foo+1;} OK - I give up. What sources do you rely on to know what Jesus really said, as opposed to what others claim He said ? Adnan Siddiqi wrote: If there was no such errors in Bible, there was no reason to 'Islam' was sent on earth. And yet, the existance of the New Testament does not assume any errors in the OId. Instead it assumes a God whose will had been accurately recorded, and was being fulfilled. That's where Christianity assumes a more powerful God than Islam, one who is able to make sure that His will is accurately preserved and presented to future generations. Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Now God as a Product Owner knew that His product was not transferred properly and people had screwed it up after certain period. Thus he sent another manager with same product(the message) with new cover(Quran now). The message is same but different cover. OK - but you have to either reject the New Testament, or reject the Quran, they are mutually incompatible. You reject the New Testament, fair enough. But on what basis do you then not reject Jesus also ? Adnan Si
I wanted to quote some of yur text to say, "well done! +5" - but it was all well done, can't say I've ever heard Christianity v. Islam put better or more succinctly.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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I wanted to quote some of yur text to say, "well done! +5" - but it was all well done, can't say I've ever heard Christianity v. Islam put better or more succinctly.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
*blush* if anything, asking the same question over and over means it probably gets better worded every time I try to get an answer.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Christian Graus wrote:
he insists he has the answers, and because I am genuinely interested in hearing them.
Same here, and all I ever see is nonsense babble. Still waiting for some real answer from him, if they even exist. :suss:
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
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I think he and The Idiot Developer are 1st cousins. Maybe even brothers.
Blog link to be reinstated at a later date.
They seem to have a bit in common. I wouldn't be surprised.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
-
Because you seem incapable of continuing a discussion beyond two iterations ( and you usually change the subject for those two ), here again is just one of the responses I have made which you ignored, while jumping on chances to respond to places where you could make do with an insult. As an aside, are there any other Muslims here who can respond to my questions and make clear to me if Adnan's via of Islam is correct ? I am actually interested, and very disappointed that he'd rather name call than discuss. And Adnan, don't fool yourself that you've hit some sort of nerve. Every passing day, your opinion matters to me less because of how you conduct yourself here. I am just trying to cut through your self righteousness, by making clear that you are incapable of discussing these issues, and that you're posting here to make yourself feel right, by replying only to things that you feel you know the answer to. And, you plainly don't, it's clear you have no idea what a Christian believes. The difference between us is, I know I don't understand Islam fully, that is why I keep asking you about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Very easy, by noticing conflict. for instance if there is an article in which a block is coded as: if(condtion){ foo++; } and then there is another article with your name where I find: if(condtion){foo=foo+1;} OK - I give up. What sources do you rely on to know what Jesus really said, as opposed to what others claim He said ? Adnan Siddiqi wrote: If there was no such errors in Bible, there was no reason to 'Islam' was sent on earth. And yet, the existance of the New Testament does not assume any errors in the OId. Instead it assumes a God whose will had been accurately recorded, and was being fulfilled. That's where Christianity assumes a more powerful God than Islam, one who is able to make sure that His will is accurately preserved and presented to future generations. Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Now God as a Product Owner knew that His product was not transferred properly and people had screwed it up after certain period. Thus he sent another manager with same product(the message) with new cover(Quran now). The message is same but different cover. OK - but you have to either reject the New Testament, or reject the Quran, they are mutually incompatible. You reject the New Testament, fair enough. But on what basis do you then not reject Jesus also ? Adnan Si
Arguing about religion is kinda like the age old arguments comparing VB and C++, with VB being the "evil" language, and C++ being the "good" language. Adnan can't give you coherent answers because there are none where militant Islam is concerned.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Arguing about religion is kinda like the age old arguments comparing VB and C++, with VB being the "evil" language, and C++ being the "good" language. Adnan can't give you coherent answers because there are none where militant Islam is concerned.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Arguing about religion is kinda like the age old arguments comparing VB and C++, with VB being the "evil" language, and C++ being the "good" language. Adnan can't give you coherent answers because there are none where militant Islam is concerned.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Arguing about religion is kinda like the age old arguments comparing VB and C++
I agree, and it get old pretty fast.
"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham
-
Because you seem incapable of continuing a discussion beyond two iterations ( and you usually change the subject for those two ), here again is just one of the responses I have made which you ignored, while jumping on chances to respond to places where you could make do with an insult. As an aside, are there any other Muslims here who can respond to my questions and make clear to me if Adnan's via of Islam is correct ? I am actually interested, and very disappointed that he'd rather name call than discuss. And Adnan, don't fool yourself that you've hit some sort of nerve. Every passing day, your opinion matters to me less because of how you conduct yourself here. I am just trying to cut through your self righteousness, by making clear that you are incapable of discussing these issues, and that you're posting here to make yourself feel right, by replying only to things that you feel you know the answer to. And, you plainly don't, it's clear you have no idea what a Christian believes. The difference between us is, I know I don't understand Islam fully, that is why I keep asking you about it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Very easy, by noticing conflict. for instance if there is an article in which a block is coded as: if(condtion){ foo++; } and then there is another article with your name where I find: if(condtion){foo=foo+1;} OK - I give up. What sources do you rely on to know what Jesus really said, as opposed to what others claim He said ? Adnan Siddiqi wrote: If there was no such errors in Bible, there was no reason to 'Islam' was sent on earth. And yet, the existance of the New Testament does not assume any errors in the OId. Instead it assumes a God whose will had been accurately recorded, and was being fulfilled. That's where Christianity assumes a more powerful God than Islam, one who is able to make sure that His will is accurately preserved and presented to future generations. Adnan Siddiqi wrote: Now God as a Product Owner knew that His product was not transferred properly and people had screwed it up after certain period. Thus he sent another manager with same product(the message) with new cover(Quran now). The message is same but different cover. OK - but you have to either reject the New Testament, or reject the Quran, they are mutually incompatible. You reject the New Testament, fair enough. But on what basis do you then not reject Jesus also ? Adnan Si
for a Moment I thought the post was sent by Illion. same style but just got email by Christian that He wants me to read this post.
Christian Graus wrote:
beyond two iterations
the same forum witnesses that i have made longer discussion with few ppl here, on and off. The thing is, you have got irked enough that instead of discussing something, you are just trying your best "to down" me anyway to prove your point and Yeah i had not seen the post. I have various important things to do in life than reading SB every min.
Christian Graus wrote:
OK - I give up. What sources do you rely on to know what Jesus really said, as opposed to what others claim He said ?
told you millions of time, Muhamamd and His Quran New Testament, every orignial text given by all prophets(Adam-Muahammad) is respected for Muslims rather infinite versions corrupted by later Priests who even injected Trinity in it is NOT acceptable for us.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm not sure of your point here
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm not sure of your point here
Pretty clear. When The God can send Jesus and make Him responsible to spread His message then why can't same God send Muhammad? Jesus was not the first man who was sent on earth. Prior to him Moses was sent with God's message. Why was Jesus sent when David and Moses had done their work? there was reason, same reason was for Muhammad. m quite clear now and hope you would not ask it again and again. Note it somewhere
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for a Moment I thought the post was sent by Illion. same style but just got email by Christian that He wants me to read this post.
Christian Graus wrote:
beyond two iterations
the same forum witnesses that i have made longer discussion with few ppl here, on and off. The thing is, you have got irked enough that instead of discussing something, you are just trying your best "to down" me anyway to prove your point and Yeah i had not seen the post. I have various important things to do in life than reading SB every min.
Christian Graus wrote:
OK - I give up. What sources do you rely on to know what Jesus really said, as opposed to what others claim He said ?
told you millions of time, Muhamamd and His Quran New Testament, every orignial text given by all prophets(Adam-Muahammad) is respected for Muslims rather infinite versions corrupted by later Priests who even injected Trinity in it is NOT acceptable for us.
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm not sure of your point here
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm not sure of your point here
Pretty clear. When The God can send Jesus and make Him responsible to spread His message then why can't same God send Muhammad? Jesus was not the first man who was sent on earth. Prior to him Moses was sent with God's message. Why was Jesus sent when David and Moses had done their work? there was reason, same reason was for Muhammad. m quite clear now and hope you would not ask it again and again. Note it somewhere
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
The thing is, you have got irked enough that instead of discussing something, you are just trying your best "to down" me anyway to prove your point and Yeah i had not seen the post.
I made the post expecting it to be on top, and I sent this entirely because it wasn't anymore and I knew you might miss it. I am not trying to 'down' you at all, my tone has dropped only because you are not answering me.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
told you millions of time, Muhamamd and His Quran
OK - but that doesn't answer my other questions 1 - what was Jesus' message, as presented in the Quran ? 2 - if it was of any value, why did God allow it to be lost, and what does that say about the lack of power in your god ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
every orignial text given by all prophets(Adam-Muahammad) is respected for Muslims
So you have the original text of the new testament ? I misunderstood you and you have a competing version, not just a later correction ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
who even injected Trinity in it is NOT acceptable for us.
OK - so to recap ( and I'm not being sarcastic ), do you have the original new testament, or do you claim that you are able to reject a book that was unchanged in it's known form for hundreds of years, because Mohammed wrote something that contradicts it ? Sure, I accept that the Quran has not been changed, although I have also found plenty of sources that explain it's self contradictions and factual errors, so I don't see how that proves anything. It was flawed to start with.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
When The God can send Jesus and make Him responsible to spread His message then why can't same God send Muhammad?
I answered this. Because Muhammad is both unneeded ( in that Jesus fulfilled the old testament and made the gospel complete ) and a false prophet, in that he denies the entire message of the new testament, which in essence means he denies that the prophecies of the old testament were fulfilled, as he did not personally fulfill them. You failed to comment.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Jesus was not the first man who was sent on earth.
But He WAS the first to live without sin.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
The thing is, you have got irked enough that instead of discussing something, you are just trying your best "to down" me anyway to prove your point and Yeah i had not seen the post.
I made the post expecting it to be on top, and I sent this entirely because it wasn't anymore and I knew you might miss it. I am not trying to 'down' you at all, my tone has dropped only because you are not answering me.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
told you millions of time, Muhamamd and His Quran
OK - but that doesn't answer my other questions 1 - what was Jesus' message, as presented in the Quran ? 2 - if it was of any value, why did God allow it to be lost, and what does that say about the lack of power in your god ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
every orignial text given by all prophets(Adam-Muahammad) is respected for Muslims
So you have the original text of the new testament ? I misunderstood you and you have a competing version, not just a later correction ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
who even injected Trinity in it is NOT acceptable for us.
OK - so to recap ( and I'm not being sarcastic ), do you have the original new testament, or do you claim that you are able to reject a book that was unchanged in it's known form for hundreds of years, because Mohammed wrote something that contradicts it ? Sure, I accept that the Quran has not been changed, although I have also found plenty of sources that explain it's self contradictions and factual errors, so I don't see how that proves anything. It was flawed to start with.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
When The God can send Jesus and make Him responsible to spread His message then why can't same God send Muhammad?
I answered this. Because Muhammad is both unneeded ( in that Jesus fulfilled the old testament and made the gospel complete ) and a false prophet, in that he denies the entire message of the new testament, which in essence means he denies that the prophecies of the old testament were fulfilled, as he did not personally fulfill them. You failed to comment.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Jesus was not the first man who was sent on earth.
But He WAS the first to live without sin.
Christian Graus wrote:
what was Jesus' message, as presented in the Quran ?
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65) "And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).more[^] -
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
The thing is, you have got irked enough that instead of discussing something, you are just trying your best "to down" me anyway to prove your point and Yeah i had not seen the post.
I made the post expecting it to be on top, and I sent this entirely because it wasn't anymore and I knew you might miss it. I am not trying to 'down' you at all, my tone has dropped only because you are not answering me.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
told you millions of time, Muhamamd and His Quran
OK - but that doesn't answer my other questions 1 - what was Jesus' message, as presented in the Quran ? 2 - if it was of any value, why did God allow it to be lost, and what does that say about the lack of power in your god ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
every orignial text given by all prophets(Adam-Muahammad) is respected for Muslims
So you have the original text of the new testament ? I misunderstood you and you have a competing version, not just a later correction ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
who even injected Trinity in it is NOT acceptable for us.
OK - so to recap ( and I'm not being sarcastic ), do you have the original new testament, or do you claim that you are able to reject a book that was unchanged in it's known form for hundreds of years, because Mohammed wrote something that contradicts it ? Sure, I accept that the Quran has not been changed, although I have also found plenty of sources that explain it's self contradictions and factual errors, so I don't see how that proves anything. It was flawed to start with.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
When The God can send Jesus and make Him responsible to spread His message then why can't same God send Muhammad?
I answered this. Because Muhammad is both unneeded ( in that Jesus fulfilled the old testament and made the gospel complete ) and a false prophet, in that he denies the entire message of the new testament, which in essence means he denies that the prophecies of the old testament were fulfilled, as he did not personally fulfill them. You failed to comment.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Jesus was not the first man who was sent on earth.
But He WAS the first to live without sin.
Christian Graus wrote:
I answered this. Because Muhammad is both unneeded ( in that Jesus fulfilled the old testament and made the gospel complete
so where in Bible Jesus said that He's the last one? show me the verse. I rather could show you bible verse(s) in which he prophesied about future Prophet.
Christian Graus wrote:
do you have the original new testament
No. Do you?
Christian Graus wrote:
But He WAS the first to live without sin.
so how do you claim other like Abraham,Moses etc comitted sins?
Christian Graus wrote:
what a Christian believes.
you don't even believe in OT nor many likes you regardless of OT was NEVER rejected by Jesus.
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Christian Graus wrote:
what was Jesus' message, as presented in the Quran ?
"When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65) "And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117).more[^]Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute.
OK, so, if Jesus was sent by God to clarify some things that had become muddy, why did God allow Jesus' message to be lost for hundreds of years ? How do you reconcile that ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours.
Whatever. So, again, given that the NT demands that we recognise that Jesus was the Messiah, and not just a prophet, why was this allowed to exist, and for Jesus' actual message to be lost for hundreds of years ? Don't you worry that if your god is that helpless, you have no way to know for sure if the Quran is intact ? Remember, we have manuscripts of the NT going back hundreds of years before the Quran was written, we have a longer chain of evidence than you do.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I answered this. Because Muhammad is both unneeded ( in that Jesus fulfilled the old testament and made the gospel complete
so where in Bible Jesus said that He's the last one? show me the verse. I rather could show you bible verse(s) in which he prophesied about future Prophet.
Christian Graus wrote:
do you have the original new testament
No. Do you?
Christian Graus wrote:
But He WAS the first to live without sin.
so how do you claim other like Abraham,Moses etc comitted sins?
Christian Graus wrote:
what a Christian believes.
you don't even believe in OT nor many likes you regardless of OT was NEVER rejected by Jesus.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
OT was NEVER rejected by Jesus.
No, it was fulfilled by Him.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
. I rather could show you bible verse(s) in which he prophesied about future Prophet.
Please do. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Off the top of my head ( this is in work time ), this shows there was a line from Adam to Jesus that ended there.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
you don't even believe in OT
Why do you keep telling this lie, when I have in the last few days told you that is not true and asked you what made you believe this to be true ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
so how do you claim other like Abraham,Moses etc comitted sins?
On what basis do you claim they didn't ? Moses smote the rock when he was told to speak to it, and thus was not allowed to enter the promised land. But, I am not necessarily talking about actions so terrible they needed to be recorded in the bible. The fact is that Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. All of chapter 11 and 12 of Hebrews is about how people in the Old Testament who lived by faith, were 'incomplete' Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. In other words, they had faith, but they did not have the promise that comes through Christ.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute.
OK, so, if Jesus was sent by God to clarify some things that had become muddy, why did God allow Jesus' message to be lost for hundreds of years ? How do you reconcile that ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours.
Whatever. So, again, given that the NT demands that we recognise that Jesus was the Messiah, and not just a prophet, why was this allowed to exist, and for Jesus' actual message to be lost for hundreds of years ? Don't you worry that if your god is that helpless, you have no way to know for sure if the Quran is intact ? Remember, we have manuscripts of the NT going back hundreds of years before the Quran was written, we have a longer chain of evidence than you do.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
Hi Christian Graus, I myself don't know how to answer your questions, but I know there is well known Muslim scholar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakir_Naik[^]who can answer all of your questions, please check his videos at YouTube, I can't provide you exact link of his videos as YouTube is banned in our office just search Zakir Naik and Bible. There was a famous debate in between Dr. Zakir Naik and Dr. William Campbell. hopefully you can find that on YouTube too. I pray from God that He guides all of us to the right path.
Kind Regards, Mushq
modified on Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:26 AM
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
OT was NEVER rejected by Jesus.
No, it was fulfilled by Him.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
. I rather could show you bible verse(s) in which he prophesied about future Prophet.
Please do. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Off the top of my head ( this is in work time ), this shows there was a line from Adam to Jesus that ended there.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
you don't even believe in OT
Why do you keep telling this lie, when I have in the last few days told you that is not true and asked you what made you believe this to be true ?
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
so how do you claim other like Abraham,Moses etc comitted sins?
On what basis do you claim they didn't ? Moses smote the rock when he was told to speak to it, and thus was not allowed to enter the promised land. But, I am not necessarily talking about actions so terrible they needed to be recorded in the bible. The fact is that Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. All of chapter 11 and 12 of Hebrews is about how people in the Old Testament who lived by faith, were 'incomplete' Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. In other words, they had faith, but they did not have the promise that comes through Christ.
Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.
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Easy - the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not given until Acts 2, and that's when the church age started. The word translated 'comforter' means a helper or assistant. If you go down a few verses: Jhn 14:26 But 1161 the Comforter 3875, [which is] the Holy 40 Ghost 4151, whom 3739 the Father 3962 will send 3992 in 1722 my 3450 name 3686, he 1565 shall teach 1321 you 5209 all things 3956, and 2532 bring 5279 0 all things 3956 to 5279 0 your 5209 remembrance 5279 , whatsoever 3739 I have said 2036 unto you 5213. The same word is used here, so Jesus defines who the comforter is. Jhn 15:26 But 1161 when 3752 the Comforter 3875 is come 2064 , whom 3739 I 1473 will send 3992 unto you 5213 from 3844 the Father 3962, [even] the Spirit 4151 of truth 225, which 3739 proceedeth 1607 from 3844 the Father 3962, he 1565 shall testify 3140 of 4012 me 1700: Again. Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless 235 I 1473 tell 3004 you 5213 the truth 225; It is expedient 4851 for you 5213 that 2443 I 1473 go away 565 : for 1063 if 3362 0 I go 565 0 not 3362 away 565 , the Comforter 3875 will 2064 0 not 3756 come 2064 unto 4314 you 5209; but 1161 if 1437 I depart 4198 , I will send 3992 him 846 unto 4314 you 5209. This is the only time the word is used in a way that could be taken to mean anything other than the Holy Spirit. However, Jesus had to die so that the Holy Spirit could be sent and the church age start. In what way do you claim that Jesus had to die a young death so that Mohammed could come, hundreds of years later ? How did Jesus' death make that possible ? Didn't Jesus death, in your eyes, create a false system of belief that fights with the truth ? 1Jo 2:1 My 3450 little children 5040, these things 5023 write I 1125 unto you 5213, that 3363 0 ye sin 264 not 3363. And 2532 if 1437 any man 5100 sin 264 , we have 2192 an advocate 3875 with 4314 the Father 3962, Jesus 2424 Christ 5547 the righteous 1342: The word 'advocate' here is the same Greek word. I have presented all five times this word appears in the new testament. Jesus and the Holy Spirit both are helpers to us, in a way that no prophet could be. re: the video. I don't care what any 'church fathers' said, especially people I have never heard of. Just because someone lived a long time ago, doesn't mean they were right. I care what the Bible says. And, if you read my posts, you'd know that I have no problem with the fact that the word 'trinity' is not in the Bible, or that this aspect of the nature of God is over emphasised by many. But, th
