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  4. Adnan, do you have ADD ?

Adnan, do you have ADD ?

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  • A Adnan Siddiqi

    Christian Graus wrote:

    what was Jesus' message, as presented in the Quran ?

    "When Jesus came with Clear Signs, he said: 'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute. Therefore, fear God and obey me. God, He is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him -- this is a Straight Way.' But sects from among themselves fell into disagreement. So woe to the wrongdoers, from the penalty of a Grievous Day!" (43:63-65) "And behold! God will say [i.e. on the Day of Judgment]: 'Oh Jesus, the son of Mary! Did you say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of God?' He will say: 'Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours. For You know in full all that is hidden. Never did I say to them anything except what You commanded me to say: 'Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I lived among them. When You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a witness to all things'" (5:116-117). more[^]

    http://weblogs.com.pk/kadnan|kadnan.blogspot.com

    C Offline
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    Christian Graus
    wrote on last edited by
    #17

    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

    'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute.

    OK, so, if Jesus was sent by God to clarify some things that had become muddy, why did God allow Jesus' message to be lost for hundreds of years ? How do you reconcile that ?

    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

    Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours.

    Whatever. So, again, given that the NT demands that we recognise that Jesus was the Messiah, and not just a prophet, why was this allowed to exist, and for Jesus' actual message to be lost for hundreds of years ? Don't you worry that if your god is that helpless, you have no way to know for sure if the Quran is intact ? Remember, we have manuscripts of the NT going back hundreds of years before the Quran was written, we have a longer chain of evidence than you do.

    Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

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    • A Adnan Siddiqi

      Christian Graus wrote:

      I answered this. Because Muhammad is both unneeded ( in that Jesus fulfilled the old testament and made the gospel complete

      so where in Bible Jesus said that He's the last one? show me the verse. I rather could show you bible verse(s) in which he prophesied about future Prophet.

      Christian Graus wrote:

      do you have the original new testament

      No. Do you?

      Christian Graus wrote:

      But He WAS the first to live without sin.

      so how do you claim other like Abraham,Moses etc comitted sins?

      Christian Graus wrote:

      what a Christian believes.

      you don't even believe in OT nor many likes you regardless of OT was NEVER rejected by Jesus.

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      Christian Graus
      wrote on last edited by
      #18

      Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

      OT was NEVER rejected by Jesus.

      No, it was fulfilled by Him.

      Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

      . I rather could show you bible verse(s) in which he prophesied about future Prophet.

      Please do. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Off the top of my head ( this is in work time ), this shows there was a line from Adam to Jesus that ended there.

      Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

      you don't even believe in OT

      Why do you keep telling this lie, when I have in the last few days told you that is not true and asked you what made you believe this to be true ?

      Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

      so how do you claim other like Abraham,Moses etc comitted sins?

      On what basis do you claim they didn't ? Moses smote the rock when he was told to speak to it, and thus was not allowed to enter the promised land. But, I am not necessarily talking about actions so terrible they needed to be recorded in the bible. The fact is that Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. All of chapter 11 and 12 of Hebrews is about how people in the Old Testament who lived by faith, were 'incomplete' Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. In other words, they had faith, but they did not have the promise that comes through Christ.

      Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

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      • C Christian Graus

        Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

        'Now I have come to you with Wisdom, and in order to make clear to you some of the (points) on which you dispute.

        OK, so, if Jesus was sent by God to clarify some things that had become muddy, why did God allow Jesus' message to be lost for hundreds of years ? How do you reconcile that ?

        Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

        Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would indeed have known it. You know what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Yours.

        Whatever. So, again, given that the NT demands that we recognise that Jesus was the Messiah, and not just a prophet, why was this allowed to exist, and for Jesus' actual message to be lost for hundreds of years ? Don't you worry that if your god is that helpless, you have no way to know for sure if the Quran is intact ? Remember, we have manuscripts of the NT going back hundreds of years before the Quran was written, we have a longer chain of evidence than you do.

        Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

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        Mushtaque Nizamani
        wrote on last edited by
        #19

        Hi Christian Graus, I myself don't know how to answer your questions, but I know there is well known Muslim scholar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakir_Naik[^]who can answer all of your questions, please check his videos at YouTube, I can't provide you exact link of his videos as YouTube is banned in our office just search Zakir Naik and Bible. There was a famous debate in between Dr. Zakir Naik and Dr. William Campbell. hopefully you can find that on YouTube too. I pray from God that He guides all of us to the right path.

        Kind Regards, Mushq

        modified on Thursday, August 21, 2008 2:26 AM

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        • C Christian Graus

          Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

          OT was NEVER rejected by Jesus.

          No, it was fulfilled by Him.

          Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

          . I rather could show you bible verse(s) in which he prophesied about future Prophet.

          Please do. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit. Off the top of my head ( this is in work time ), this shows there was a line from Adam to Jesus that ended there.

          Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

          you don't even believe in OT

          Why do you keep telling this lie, when I have in the last few days told you that is not true and asked you what made you believe this to be true ?

          Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

          so how do you claim other like Abraham,Moses etc comitted sins?

          On what basis do you claim they didn't ? Moses smote the rock when he was told to speak to it, and thus was not allowed to enter the promised land. But, I am not necessarily talking about actions so terrible they needed to be recorded in the bible. The fact is that Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: Rom 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. All of chapter 11 and 12 of Hebrews is about how people in the Old Testament who lived by faith, were 'incomplete' Hbr 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. In other words, they had faith, but they did not have the promise that comes through Christ.

          Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

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          Adnan Siddiqi
          wrote on last edited by
          #20

          "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you into the age (to come)." John 14:16

          Who is the OTHER here and this[^] video would help you further than I write.

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          • A Adnan Siddiqi

            "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Paraclete, that he may abide with you into the age (to come)." John 14:16

            Who is the OTHER here and this[^] video would help you further than I write.

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            Christian Graus
            wrote on last edited by
            #21

            Easy - the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not given until Acts 2, and that's when the church age started. The word translated 'comforter' means a helper or assistant. If you go down a few verses: Jhn 14:26 But 1161 the Comforter 3875, [which is] the Holy 40 Ghost 4151, whom 3739 the Father 3962 will send 3992 in 1722 my 3450 name 3686, he 1565 shall teach 1321 you 5209 all things 3956, and 2532 bring 5279 0 all things 3956 to 5279 0 your 5209 remembrance 5279 , whatsoever 3739 I have said 2036 unto you 5213. The same word is used here, so Jesus defines who the comforter is. Jhn 15:26 But 1161 when 3752 the Comforter 3875 is come 2064 , whom 3739 I 1473 will send 3992 unto you 5213 from 3844 the Father 3962, [even] the Spirit 4151 of truth 225, which 3739 proceedeth 1607 from 3844 the Father 3962, he 1565 shall testify 3140 of 4012 me 1700: Again. Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless 235 I 1473 tell 3004 you 5213 the truth 225; It is expedient 4851 for you 5213 that 2443 I 1473 go away 565 : for 1063 if 3362 0 I go 565 0 not 3362 away 565 , the Comforter 3875 will 2064 0 not 3756 come 2064 unto 4314 you 5209; but 1161 if 1437 I depart 4198 , I will send 3992 him 846 unto 4314 you 5209. This is the only time the word is used in a way that could be taken to mean anything other than the Holy Spirit. However, Jesus had to die so that the Holy Spirit could be sent and the church age start. In what way do you claim that Jesus had to die a young death so that Mohammed could come, hundreds of years later ? How did Jesus' death make that possible ? Didn't Jesus death, in your eyes, create a false system of belief that fights with the truth ? 1Jo 2:1 My 3450 little children 5040, these things 5023 write I 1125 unto you 5213, that 3363 0 ye sin 264 not 3363. And 2532 if 1437 any man 5100 sin 264 , we have 2192 an advocate 3875 with 4314 the Father 3962, Jesus 2424 Christ 5547 the righteous 1342: The word 'advocate' here is the same Greek word. I have presented all five times this word appears in the new testament. Jesus and the Holy Spirit both are helpers to us, in a way that no prophet could be. re: the video. I don't care what any 'church fathers' said, especially people I have never heard of. Just because someone lived a long time ago, doesn't mean they were right. I care what the Bible says. And, if you read my posts, you'd know that I have no problem with the fact that the word 'trinity' is not in the Bible, or that this aspect of the nature of God is over emphasised by many. But, th

            A 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • C Christian Graus

              Easy - the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit was not given until Acts 2, and that's when the church age started. The word translated 'comforter' means a helper or assistant. If you go down a few verses: Jhn 14:26 But 1161 the Comforter 3875, [which is] the Holy 40 Ghost 4151, whom 3739 the Father 3962 will send 3992 in 1722 my 3450 name 3686, he 1565 shall teach 1321 you 5209 all things 3956, and 2532 bring 5279 0 all things 3956 to 5279 0 your 5209 remembrance 5279 , whatsoever 3739 I have said 2036 unto you 5213. The same word is used here, so Jesus defines who the comforter is. Jhn 15:26 But 1161 when 3752 the Comforter 3875 is come 2064 , whom 3739 I 1473 will send 3992 unto you 5213 from 3844 the Father 3962, [even] the Spirit 4151 of truth 225, which 3739 proceedeth 1607 from 3844 the Father 3962, he 1565 shall testify 3140 of 4012 me 1700: Again. Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless 235 I 1473 tell 3004 you 5213 the truth 225; It is expedient 4851 for you 5213 that 2443 I 1473 go away 565 : for 1063 if 3362 0 I go 565 0 not 3362 away 565 , the Comforter 3875 will 2064 0 not 3756 come 2064 unto 4314 you 5209; but 1161 if 1437 I depart 4198 , I will send 3992 him 846 unto 4314 you 5209. This is the only time the word is used in a way that could be taken to mean anything other than the Holy Spirit. However, Jesus had to die so that the Holy Spirit could be sent and the church age start. In what way do you claim that Jesus had to die a young death so that Mohammed could come, hundreds of years later ? How did Jesus' death make that possible ? Didn't Jesus death, in your eyes, create a false system of belief that fights with the truth ? 1Jo 2:1 My 3450 little children 5040, these things 5023 write I 1125 unto you 5213, that 3363 0 ye sin 264 not 3363. And 2532 if 1437 any man 5100 sin 264 , we have 2192 an advocate 3875 with 4314 the Father 3962, Jesus 2424 Christ 5547 the righteous 1342: The word 'advocate' here is the same Greek word. I have presented all five times this word appears in the new testament. Jesus and the Holy Spirit both are helpers to us, in a way that no prophet could be. re: the video. I don't care what any 'church fathers' said, especially people I have never heard of. Just because someone lived a long time ago, doesn't mean they were right. I care what the Bible says. And, if you read my posts, you'd know that I have no problem with the fact that the word 'trinity' is not in the Bible, or that this aspect of the nature of God is over emphasised by many. But, th

              A Offline
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              Adnan Siddiqi
              wrote on last edited by
              #22

              Christian Graus wrote:

              The Holy Spirit was not given un

              I knew that what would you said. The holy spirit means Gabriel,am I right? rest I would reply later based on what you answer. p.s: I just quoted one verse, I have others to show you as well even I "agree" withy your assumption that it was Holy spirit. /A

              Christian Graus wrote:

              hn 16:7 Nevertheless 235 I 1473 tell 3004 you 5

              what is this? some encoding problem or what?

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              0
              • A Adnan Siddiqi

                Christian Graus wrote:

                The Holy Spirit was not given un

                I knew that what would you said. The holy spirit means Gabriel,am I right? rest I would reply later based on what you answer. p.s: I just quoted one verse, I have others to show you as well even I "agree" withy your assumption that it was Holy spirit. /A

                Christian Graus wrote:

                hn 16:7 Nevertheless 235 I 1473 tell 3004 you 5

                what is this? some encoding problem or what?

                C Offline
                C Offline
                Christian Graus
                wrote on last edited by
                #23

                Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                The holy spirit means Gabriel,am I right?

                No.

                Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                rest I would reply later based on what you answer.

                OK

                Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                I have others to show you as well even I "agree" withy your assumption that it was Holy spirit.

                OK, please show me a verse where you agree that Jesus actually says that there would be another after Him. I assume you're looking for verses that the Christians forgot to change, right ?

                Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                what is this? some encoding problem or what?

                Strongs numbers, used to look up where the same greek word appears in many places, or to look up definitions of the Greek.

                Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

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                • C Christian Graus

                  Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                  The holy spirit means Gabriel,am I right?

                  No.

                  Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                  rest I would reply later based on what you answer.

                  OK

                  Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                  I have others to show you as well even I "agree" withy your assumption that it was Holy spirit.

                  OK, please show me a verse where you agree that Jesus actually says that there would be another after Him. I assume you're looking for verses that the Christians forgot to change, right ?

                  Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                  what is this? some encoding problem or what?

                  Strongs numbers, used to look up where the same greek word appears in many places, or to look up definitions of the Greek.

                  Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

                  A Offline
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                  Adnan Siddiqi
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #24

                  Christian Graus wrote:

                  No.

                  then who is he?

                  Christian Graus wrote:

                  OK, please show me a verse where y

                  Answer above.

                  Christian Graus wrote:

                  Strongs numbers, used to look up where the same greek word appears in many places, or to look up definitions of the Greek.

                  I don't know this art so next time if you quote then either use biblegateway.com or some english text

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                  • C Christian Graus

                    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                    The holy spirit means Gabriel,am I right?

                    No.

                    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                    rest I would reply later based on what you answer.

                    OK

                    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                    I have others to show you as well even I "agree" withy your assumption that it was Holy spirit.

                    OK, please show me a verse where you agree that Jesus actually says that there would be another after Him. I assume you're looking for verses that the Christians forgot to change, right ?

                    Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                    what is this? some encoding problem or what?

                    Strongs numbers, used to look up where the same greek word appears in many places, or to look up definitions of the Greek.

                    Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

                    A Offline
                    A Offline
                    Adnan Siddiqi
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #25

                    knock knock!

                    C 2 Replies Last reply
                    0
                    • A Adnan Siddiqi

                      Christian Graus wrote:

                      No.

                      then who is he?

                      Christian Graus wrote:

                      OK, please show me a verse where y

                      Answer above.

                      Christian Graus wrote:

                      Strongs numbers, used to look up where the same greek word appears in many places, or to look up definitions of the Greek.

                      I don't know this art so next time if you quote then either use biblegateway.com or some english text

                      C Offline
                      C Offline
                      Christian Graus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #26

                      You can just ignore the numbers, they were only there b/c I was looking up greek meanings. The english text between was the same.

                      Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                      then who is he?

                      He's Gabriel. He's only mentioned a couple of times, what does it matter who he is ? Jesus was with the father from the beginning, that is true, I've heard people argue that Gabriel is Jesus. I don't think the Bible explicitly says, because I don't think it's important.

                      Adnan Siddiqi wrote:

                      Answer above.

                      I will look for it, I have been busy for a few days, so I lost touch with these threads.

                      Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

                      1 Reply Last reply
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                      • A Adnan Siddiqi

                        knock knock!

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                        Christian Graus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #27

                        Sorry, I spent yesterday travelling and the day before packing. When you said 'answered above' - where ? In that video ? I don't see any posts on this thread where you provide any verse which you agree says that Jesus claimed that there would be a prophet to come after Him.

                        Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • A Adnan Siddiqi

                          knock knock!

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                          Christian Graus
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #28

                          *grin* knock knock

                          Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

                          A 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • C Christian Graus

                            *grin* knock knock

                            Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

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                            A Offline
                            Adnan Siddiqi
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #29

                            i have not forgot. I cant use *other* things at office easily and at home, we r having power outage issues for last 3 weeks so m avoiding to turn my router on. Hopefully i get back to you by night(pakisan time)

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                            • A Adnan Siddiqi

                              i have not forgot. I cant use *other* things at office easily and at home, we r having power outage issues for last 3 weeks so m avoiding to turn my router on. Hopefully i get back to you by night(pakisan time)

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                              Christian Graus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #30

                              OK - it's not an issue, I realise you have a life in the real world, I wasn't suggesting you were hiding from me or anything. When you're ready.....

                              Christian Graus No longer a Microsoft MVP, but still happy to answer your questions.

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