Extraordinary popular delusions and the madness of crowds
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I detest everything Palin represents - ultra-conservative religious values, obedience to God, small town raised, "hockey mom", Ms. Congeniality, apparent dishonesty, a view of the world a the playground for the human race, etc...
I agree with you on everything except the small town raised bit. Before moving to Phoenix I was raised in a town with a population of less than 2,000. I don't think living in a small town in anyway damaged me nor do I see small town living as a negative thing.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Her personality, worldview and physical appearance grate upon my nerves like you wouldn't believe.
I had just started watching TV again since collage football is starting up. When I see and hear her it just makes me want to turn off the TV.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I believe this woman has the capacity to regress the U.S. further into a state of pseudo-theocracy by giving a voice to the evangelical crowd.
Same here. Too be honest I am amazed at how easily my fellow citizens are allowing this to happen.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
Chris Austin wrote:
I agree with you on everything except the small town raised bit. Before moving to Phoenix I was raised in a town with a population of less than 2,000. I don't think living in a small town in anyway damaged me nor do I see small town living as a negative thing.
Okay - mileage may vary. I've just had bad experiences in all the small towns I've lived in.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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You make it sounds as if there's nothing to like or admire in the woman. Or do you just dislike the fact that there's finally somebody on the ticket that represents the right? Because that's what the excitement is about. Nobody on the right wanted McCain, I still have no idea how he got there. Forget swing votes and disgruntled Hillary supporters, Palin will get Republicans off the couch to vote. And that is what has the left scared into making one stupid mistake after another. Ignoring her wouldn't have done them much good either, but it would have done them less harm.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
You make it sounds as if there's nothing to like or admire in the woman.
For me, there isn't. To me, she represents a descent into theocracy. For others, of course, their opinion may differ given their views.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I detest everything Palin represents
You better stop repressing yourself like this. It's not good for the blood pressure. Try, just once, letting go of that famous Canadian reserve and saying what you really mean. ;) Back when there were still about twenty people in the running for the nominations, I realised that Biden was the man best qualified to be President. I didn't always agree with his positions, but I felt he had the wisdom (far more important that experience or change-agentry) to lead this country. But whether you consider it fortunate or not, neither Biden nor Palin are likely to be running the USA during the next few years - Yes, there's a chance, but I suspect the Los Vegas odds are stacked quite high against 'em. Palin was a brilliant choice politically. The only way Obama could have headed it off was to select Hillary as his running mate - she would've been attractive to many of the same people who are now moving towards the McCain campaign - though Obama still has the lead in the swing states.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
modified on Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:14 AM
I suppose there's no point whining about Palin now. She's been selected as VP, so what will be will be. I don't exactly like Obama, but man I hope he wins or at least the vote is split 49-51% or something...
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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BoneSoft wrote:
You make it sounds as if there's nothing to like or admire in the woman.
For me, there isn't. To me, she represents a descent into theocracy. For others, of course, their opinion may differ given their views.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
73Zeppelin wrote:
For me, there isn't. To me, she represents a descent into theocracy.
For the life of me, I cannot comprehend why you view her church as a threat, but Obama's isn't...
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Chris Austin wrote:
leading our country out of the obvious mediocrity we have been wallowing in since the 80s.
That will be hard to do. Speaking of problems that have mushroomed since the 80s, I want a candidate that says "I'm going to fix health care, by deporting illegal aliens, closing down McDonalds, giving tax credits for treadmill purchases and gym memberships, and educating people on how to save more than 3% of their income, to not think that debt and credit cards are great and that cooking at home is an option that should occationally be explored. And the educating part will start with the fat lazy money wasting old wrinkled white men in Congress." Of course that might not be so great on the economy...
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
I just want someone who can plan something beyond the 2 year congressional election cycle.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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BoneSoft wrote:
You make it sounds as if there's nothing to like or admire in the woman.
For me, there isn't. To me, she represents a descent into theocracy. For others, of course, their opinion may differ given their views.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
73Zeppelin wrote:
To me, she represents a descent into theocracy.
A theocracy won't happen in America, the day it does it won't be America anymore. But I differ from many here in that I don't think having some faith is the worst thing that can possibly happen to people. What about her faith based values do you find so troublesome?
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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I suppose there's no point whining about Palin now. She's been selected as VP, so what will be will be. I don't exactly like Obama, but man I hope he wins or at least the vote is split 49-51% or something...
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
I am sure it will be close. Which for me highlights just how incompetent the democrats have become.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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I just want someone who can plan something beyond the 2 year congressional election cycle.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
I'll drink to that. I would bet that there are plenty of great people that would be happy to just do what's best for the country. Unfortunately, those who only care about getting elected are those who get elected. I don't know how you get around that.
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I'll drink to that. I would bet that there are plenty of great people that would be happy to just do what's best for the country. Unfortunately, those who only care about getting elected are those who get elected. I don't know how you get around that.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
those who only care about getting elected are those who get elected. I don't know how you get around that.
It's a hell of a quandary isn't it.
BoneSoft wrote:
would bet that there are plenty of great people that would be happy to just do what's best for the country.
Yeah, and mostly they get laughed at and ignored. I gotta stop thinking about this stuff; it's depressing.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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I suppose there's no point whining about Palin now. She's been selected as VP, so what will be will be. I don't exactly like Obama, but man I hope he wins or at least the vote is split 49-51% or something...
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I suppose there's no point whining about Palin now. She's been selected as VP, so what will be will be
Remember VP is the least important job in the US government - except under very specific and unhappy circumstances. (Which meant Dick Cheney was, by himself, enough of a reason for the most devout atheist to pray for the continued health of George W.)
73Zeppelin wrote:
I don't exactly like Obama, but man I hope he wins or at least the vote is split 49-51% or something...
There were worse candidates running for the nomination - and better ones like Biden - but my concern with him is that I do not trust him. There are enough warning flags in his background to make me question his authenticity. My biggest concern is Pelosi, in the house. She is only one more step away from the oval office than the vice-president is - and she scares the shit out of me.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Chris Austin wrote:
Before moving to Phoenix I was raised in a town with a population of less than 2,000. I don't think living in a small town in anyway damaged me nor do I see small town living as a negative thing.
I grew up in a town about that size, too. However, I see it entirely the opposite from you. It was cliquish and the pressure to conform to their right wing norm was something fierce. I spent much of the time counting the days until I could show it my ass as I hit the road.
If you don't have the data, you're just another asshole with an opinion.
Tim Craig wrote:
It was cliquish and the pressure to conform to their right wing norm was something fierce.
I get the same thing here in the "Big D." I just try to shut out the people that are insecure enough in their positions that they can't deal with people having philosophical differences without trying to "win them over".
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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Chris Austin wrote:
It is pretty humorous and shows what a joke the current system is
Maybe that's why they call them parties?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I am sure there is a Heinlein style joke in there somewhere.
Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long
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73Zeppelin wrote:
To me, she represents a descent into theocracy.
A theocracy won't happen in America, the day it does it won't be America anymore. But I differ from many here in that I don't think having some faith is the worst thing that can possibly happen to people. What about her faith based values do you find so troublesome?
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
A theocracy won't happen in America, the day it does it won't be America anymore. But I differ from many here in that I don't think having some faith is the worst thing that can possibly happen to people.
I think a pseudo-theocracy is not improbably. Already with the creationist movement there is a plausible threat. I also see religion creeping more and more into politics to the point where I believe the majority of voters are selecting candidates based on their religious views and beliefs.
BoneSoft wrote:
What about her faith based values do you find so troublesome?
Everything. I think evangelical style religion is a threat to societal progress based on history both ancient and modern. When God becomes an impetus for political decisions it is time to be afraid.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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Chris Austin wrote:
I agree with you on everything except the small town raised bit. Before moving to Phoenix I was raised in a town with a population of less than 2,000. I don't think living in a small town in anyway damaged me nor do I see small town living as a negative thing.
Okay - mileage may vary. I've just had bad experiences in all the small towns I've lived in.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I've just had bad experiences in all the small towns I've lived in.
I lived in Peterborough, NH once upon a time. That's the town Thornton Wilder wrote about in Our Town. That's the play that was banned in the Soviet Union in 1947, for making family life "too attractive."
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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73Zeppelin wrote:
For me, there isn't. To me, she represents a descent into theocracy.
For the life of me, I cannot comprehend why you view her church as a threat, but Obama's isn't...
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
What makes you think I like Obama's faith?
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I've just had bad experiences in all the small towns I've lived in.
I lived in Peterborough, NH once upon a time. That's the town Thornton Wilder wrote about in Our Town. That's the play that was banned in the Soviet Union in 1947, for making family life "too attractive."
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
I lived in Peterborough, NH once upon a time. That's the town Thornton Wilder wrote about in Our Town. That's the play that was banned in the Soviet Union in 1947, for making family life "too attractive."
:laugh: Nice.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
What do you call all the Obama zealots, including 500,000 germans?
Friends of the next POTUS?
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I suppose there's no point whining about Palin now. She's been selected as VP, so what will be will be
Remember VP is the least important job in the US government - except under very specific and unhappy circumstances. (Which meant Dick Cheney was, by himself, enough of a reason for the most devout atheist to pray for the continued health of George W.)
73Zeppelin wrote:
I don't exactly like Obama, but man I hope he wins or at least the vote is split 49-51% or something...
There were worse candidates running for the nomination - and better ones like Biden - but my concern with him is that I do not trust him. There are enough warning flags in his background to make me question his authenticity. My biggest concern is Pelosi, in the house. She is only one more step away from the oval office than the vice-president is - and she scares the shit out of me.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Something deep inside of me prefers the U.S. to be "world power" than, say, China or Russia. It is therefore comforting to me to know that the leader of the U.S. isn't a dimwit. Given the current choices, I do not feel all that secure.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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BoneSoft wrote:
A theocracy won't happen in America, the day it does it won't be America anymore. But I differ from many here in that I don't think having some faith is the worst thing that can possibly happen to people.
I think a pseudo-theocracy is not improbably. Already with the creationist movement there is a plausible threat. I also see religion creeping more and more into politics to the point where I believe the majority of voters are selecting candidates based on their religious views and beliefs.
BoneSoft wrote:
What about her faith based values do you find so troublesome?
Everything. I think evangelical style religion is a threat to societal progress based on history both ancient and modern. When God becomes an impetus for political decisions it is time to be afraid.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I believe the majority of voters are selecting candidates based on their religious views and beliefs.
People like shortcuts to avoid thinking. People think somebody who shares their religion will share many of their values and would be good representation for them. Same is true for those who always vote party lines. Personally I see religion as just a source of values. And I see nothing wrong with that. But maybe it's dangerous for that very reason, that I don't see it as dangerous. I'm with you in that I don't want religion to take control of the government, but I just don't see that happening here. I can't picture how a theocracy could come about without a dictatorship, but then again I don't know if history has already shown a way for that to happen. However, I don't want an anti-religious government either. And many that dislike religion seem to go overboard in their suggestions to 'remedy' the perceived problem of religion, with as much or more veal than those of faith.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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Oakman wrote:
I confess that I am surprised at the strength of your distaste for Palin.
I detest everything Palin represents - ultra-conservative religious values, obedience to God, small town raised, "hockey mom", Ms. Congeniality, apparent dishonesty, a view of the world a the playground for the human race, etc... Her personality, worldview and physical appearance grate upon my nerves like you wouldn't believe. I would probably be indifferent between a Republican or Democrat victory for the presidency if it were not for her. I believe this woman has the capacity to regress the U.S. further into a state of pseudo-theocracy by giving a voice to the evangelical crowd. That is why I dislike her so - she is the personification of a value system I cannot tolerate. But I am not a member of the American electorate, so there you have it. I agree that the attacks on her from the liberal media are over the top. In fact, I am getting a little sick of reading the daily critiques myself. They would have been better off to ignore her and not make a fuss over her nomination.
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
I detest everything Palin represents - ultra-conservative religious values, obedience to God, small town raised, "hockey mom", Ms. Congeniality, apparent dishonesty, a view of the world a the playground for the human race, etc...
I would agree they should ignore her & get back to promoting themselves. McCain's lipstick thing is totally dumb, btw