Do you believe in God? [modified]

[BoneSoft]

I can't deny what science demonstrates, and am in fact extremely interested in what it discovers. And I only have minor doubts about some theories, and many scienteists feel the same way about some of those theories. But I have little doubt that, overall, it's grainy picture of reality is valid, if not yet refined. I also have faith that God exists and that his word is real and right. Given both of those, (faith in God and confidence in science), I'm forced to question instead, peoples ability to comprehend and understand God and science. And I think that's a more reasonable thing to question. And I feel like I'm in pretty good company, since Einstein, Darwin, Galileo, and plenty of other great contributors to science also believed in God. So I feel justified in scoffing at anybody who automatically discounts one on the basis of the other. It's just not healthy for growing a mind... And there's really no reason they can't, not only coexist, but comliment each other as well. But at the same time, I don't feel that either was intended to prove or disprove the other, and neither should be attempted. Anyway, that's my two yen.

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Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

[MidwestLimey]

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

How, for example, would you prove that Caligula was a Roman emperor?

A very nice analogy. There's physical evidence due to the passage of time, but the indirect evidence is overwhelming. I'll have to remember that one.

Bar fomos edo pariyart gedeem, agreo eo dranem abal edyero eyrem kalm kareore

[Mike Gaskey]

Cyon111 wrote:

But when I look at those massive crowds of people in all countries who bow, prostrate before their God, it somehow pains me and tells me: "Those people can only be wrong!". But hey, who am I to tell you not to worship a God? I'm not your mother, just someone who can not imagine to worship a God. So tell me, how does it feel to worship a God? You are not getting sick of going every Sunday to church? For sure, I would get sick!

I don't get involved with massive crowds, can't help you on that one. Regarding how does it feel to worship? If feels great. I give thanks for the blessings in my life: I've a great family, don't live in a shit hole country, make a good living, etc. As an observation, it strike me as odd that having rejected the notion of God that you'd be asking these questions. As a non-believer it would seem that you should be happy with your choice and go on about the business of living.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

[Adnan Siddiqi]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Of course

But don't you believe in neo-cons?

[Cyon111]

I'm surprised that you think so. You have a funny name, may I ask where you are born?

[Oakman]

Nishant Sivakumar wrote:

I guess the O.P. is asking if there are any polytheists here.

In the Hebrew language "Elohim" means the Gods. (Eloha is the singular.) It is used a number of times in Genesis, and is deliberately mistranslated in English as if the singular is used. (i.e. Gen 3: 17; Gen 5: 29; Gen 7: 16.) So those who take the bible literally. . .

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Pete OHanlon]

Paul Conrad wrote:

Now to the actual question of if I do believe in God? Sure I do, and I don't give a damn what others think of that

Of course you do. You quote me in your sig, and I am not a benevolent deity. I bestow bounty on my believers and come down like a plague on those who offend me.

Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys

[Pete OHanlon]

Rama was not born. Rama came into being fully formed, and fully loaded.

Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys

[Pete OHanlon]

Oooh. I like wild drunken guess, well the wild and drunken bits anyway.

Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys

[Paul Conrad]

:laugh::laugh::laugh: Sorry, I don't see you as a deity, but more of a wise Jedi Master ;P

"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham

[Pete OHanlon]

Paul Conrad wrote:

Sorry, I don't see you as a deity, but more of a wise Jedi Master

:laugh: Potayto, potahto.

Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.

My blog | My articles | MoXAML PowerToys

[Paul Conrad]

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham

[Paul Conrad]

Pete O'Hanlon wrote:

the wild and drunken bits anyway

[Homer Simpson] Woohoo! :rolleyes:

"The clue train passed his station without stopping." - John Simmons / outlaw programmer "Real programmers just throw a bunch of 1s and 0s at the computer to see what sticks" - Pete O'Hanlon "Not only do you continue to babble nonsense, you can't even correctly remember the nonsense you babbled just minutes ago." - Rob Graham

[Michael Schubert]

No way. The Teh misspells every second word. The concept of punctuation is alien to the Teh.

[Ilion]

Colin Angus Mackay wrote:

WTF? You agree that there are no Gods... Then you go on to say that they exist.

True, he's immediately and obviously self-contradictory. But on the other hand, you foolishly imagine that one logically can simultaneously deny that there exists an actual God and assert that there exist such things as reason, logic, knowledge, truth (that's iffy, on that one you may well demure, as your kind so frequently do), thoughts, purposes, "free will" (also iffy, as your kind deny-when-convenient) and so on. edit: I'm sorry! I thought I was responding to someone else. :doh: What I wrote may apply to you, or it may not: I don't remember whether you're one of these silly play-atheists. Please, if it doesn't apply to you, then forgive me for saying it in the first place. If it does apply to you, then please forgive me for mistakenly saying it (the mistake being twofold).

[Ilion]

Oakman wrote:

In the Hebrew language "Elohim" means the Gods. (Eloha is the singular.) It is used a number of times in Genesis, and is deliberately mistranslated in English as if the singular is used. (i.e. Gen 3: 17; Gen 5: 29; Gen 7: 16.) So those who take the bible literally. . .

You're so ignorant ... and such a liar (when you're not displaying *mere* ignorance). That 'elohim' is grammatically plural in form (masculine plural, to be more precise) no more means that the word is plural in meaning than does the fact that 'betulim' is grammatically masculine plural in form mean that the word is plural ... or "masculine" ... in meaning. 'betulah' is feminine singular; it means "a virgin;" its plural would be 'betulot' 'betulim' is masculine plural; it means "virginity" 'elohim' likewise is masculine plural -- it does not actually mean "God" or even "gods" (no more than the English word 'god' is actually the name of The Living God); its meaning is closer to the English "majesty" or "majestic-ness" and "exaltation" and "lofty" or "loftiness" than to the English word "god" ... which is why it was also used to denote judges/magistrates. And ghosts. So, to call someone 'elohim' is to call him "Lofty/Exalted/Majestic One;" it is not necessarily to call him "God." To call a plurality of persons 'elohim' is to call them "Lofty/Exalted/Majestic Ones;" it is not necessarily to call them "gods." Context matters!

modified on Sunday, September 21, 2008 7:43 PM

[Ilion]

Nishant Sivakumar wrote:

I guess the O.P. is asking if there are any polytheists here.

And now, for the debunking of Oakman's ignorant[^] (or dishonest) response to you.

[Ilion]

Harvey Saayman wrote:

IMO science is the religion of atheists, people to blind to see whats right in front of their faces! We didnt just happen, there has to be a creator behind it all ...

You're on the right track, certainly: though, it's no longer *actual* science we're talking talking about when we speak of 'atheists' (I generally put the word in quotes because most self-proclamed atheists are just poseurs at it) and their worshipful attitude toward the goddess "Science." You're also very much on the right track in speaking of "people too blind to see whats right in front of their faces! We didnt just happen, there has to be a creator behind it all." If atheism were indeed the truth about the nature of reality, then certain truths logically and inescapably follow. Among them are (non-exhaustively, and in no particular order, except for the last): 1) We cannot know truth from non-truth 2) We cannot reason 3) We cannot know *anything* 4) We are not "conscious" (i.e. consciousness in an "illusion" -- though, even the atheists honest enough to admit that this follows from atheism never quite get around to explaining *who* is having the illusion) 5) We do not and cannot chose our actions (i.e. we exhibit 'behaviors,' we do not 'act') ... n) There are no such things as 'minds' ... which is to say, the 'atheist' logically must assert that he himself does not exist! These, and other equally absurd things, logically and inescapably follow from denying that there is a Creator-God. One can even find prominent 'atheists' admitting to these things ... and moments later behaving as though these things-which-cannot-be are! Pure and simple: atheism is mental disorder, willfully entered into.

[Ilion]

Oakman wrote:

Pan and Apollo were both pretty good and Terpsichore was perfect.

But the One God, the Only God, the Living God, is "Lord of the Dance[^]."

[Ilion]

MidwestLimey wrote:

Ravel H. Joyce: How, for example, would you prove that Caligula was a Roman emperor? MidwestLimey: A very nice analogy.

Mr Joyce stole the question ... from Christian apologetics ... and he apparently doesn't *really* understand the point(s) of it. Either that, or he's intellectually dishonest, for his favorite method of "argumentation" is to assert the scientism/positivism and empiricism such a question shows to be absurd.