Douglas Wilson: Rape and Incest Exceptions
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BoneSoft wrote:
The Supreme Court had no business dictating law, much less to the entire country
I think the legalization of abortion was probably good for the country. The number of abortions has gone up, regretably. The number of orphanages and adoption agencies has shrunk, amazingly. That said, there cannot be anyone who reads the 5th and 14th amendments and then reads Blackmun's interpretation of them which uses a perceived (but never mentioned) right to privacy to permit termination of living fetuses, who can think that he was doing anything but smoking illegal substances. Although politicans sometimes suggest that this issue needs to be decided by our legislators, not our judges, the odds of a vote ever coming to the floor of either house are somewhere between zero and none. It would require political courage - which is in real short supply these days.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
True. I suppose I should say I threw my 2 yen in the pot and shake the dust from my feet. For the most part, when it comes to politcal issues where my view is partly religious based, I figure live and let live. But religion aside, I just have a tough time letting this one go, because I feel like it's causing the death of innocent people, the most innocent of all people. And for me to say live and let live on this issue makes me feel complicit. Because of that, I don't have a problem with it in certain circumstances, but those scenarios comprise less that 1% of all abortions performed. Plus I don't like to see the Supreme Court decide for the entire country, based on one case, that had to have been politically motivated (or chemically induced as you suggest). We shouldn't have allowed that to happen, we shouldn't let it stand, and should never let it happen again. Anyway, this issues isn't going anywere any time soon.
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In the end, whatever this pastor thinks, a victim of a rape or incest will fly to a state where abortion is legal or worse abort in a dirty place endangering her own life. Law should not be made from theorical principles but should adapt to reality. This is the reason why religious opinions should not be taken into account.
___________________________________________________________ On the whole human beings want to be good, but not to good and not quite all the time - George Orwell
François Gasnier wrote:
In the end, whatever this pastor thinks, a victim of a rape or incest will fly to a state where abortion is legal ...
So? What does this have to do with anything? In Netherlands, one might send one's aged parents to the hospital -- where they "voluntarily" "request" "euthanasia" -- SO CLEARLY, since some Americans might find this fact useful, and if rich enough might even find a way to make use of it, we in the US should not have laws against such things and should not punish those who do such things. You people *refuse* to think rationally.
François Gasnier wrote:
... or worse abort in a dirty place endangering her own life.
YAWN!
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Ilion believes that abortion is sometimes the right choice.
Ilíon wrote:
The only exception is in those very rare instances in which the pregnancy is *actually* endangering the mother's life. The goal in these very few cases is not to kill the unborn child, but to save the life of the mother.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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BoneSoft wrote:
You're so sure of this? Legalizing it country wide sure increased the number significantly.
Of course, there was no figures of illegal abortions. But, most specialists agrees that when abortion was legalized in France in the early seventies, the number of abortions did not multiply by two from that day... A country get much better results by investing in (sexual) education and preventing unwanted pregnancy.
___________________________________________________________ On the whole human beings want to be good, but not to good and not quite all the time - George Orwell
François Gasnier wrote:
Of course, there was no figures of illegal abortions.
Well! There totally goes that non-sequitur yawner about "dirty back-street abortions," doesn't it?
François Gasnier wrote:
But, most specialists agrees that when abortion was legalized in France in the early seventies, the number of abortions did not multiply by two from that day... A country get much better results by investing in (sexual) education and preventing unwanted pregnancy.
Indeed: such good results that if Britain beats France to the "honor" of being the first full-Sharia state in Europe, it will be only because the British political class is trying harder. There is a price for everthing. The price for killing your children appears to be extinction.
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Matthew Faithfull wrote:
Which is in your enlightened opinion?
Ever seen God Matty?
...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.
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Umm... I don't believe there is a 'strength of belief' threshold that once beyond constitutes a religion... "Religion" has much better definitions. Evolution is not a religion to anybody.
Matthew Faithfull wrote:
I'll leave others to work out which group will ultimately kill and cripple more people and cause more damage to society and humanity at large.
Such melodrama...
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François Gasnier wrote:
In the end, whatever this pastor thinks, a victim of a rape or incest will fly to a state where abortion is legal ...
So? What does this have to do with anything? In Netherlands, one might send one's aged parents to the hospital -- where they "voluntarily" "request" "euthanasia" -- SO CLEARLY, since some Americans might find this fact useful, and if rich enough might even find a way to make use of it, we in the US should not have laws against such things and should not punish those who do such things. You people *refuse* to think rationally.
François Gasnier wrote:
... or worse abort in a dirty place endangering her own life.
YAWN!
Ilíon wrote:
You people *refuse* to think rationally.
You people need to think practically. While applying the pastor theory (so that he can be consistent), you are probably not actually saving a life but surely endangering an other one.
Ilíon wrote:
YAWN!
I can imagine that you do not care in the end. Eventually, it is about enforcing your point of view on people's life whatever the price is.
___________________________________________________________ On the whole human beings want to be good, but not to good and not quite all the time - George Orwell
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Ilíon wrote:
You people *refuse* to think rationally.
You people need to think practically. While applying the pastor theory (so that he can be consistent), you are probably not actually saving a life but surely endangering an other one.
Ilíon wrote:
YAWN!
I can imagine that you do not care in the end. Eventually, it is about enforcing your point of view on people's life whatever the price is.
___________________________________________________________ On the whole human beings want to be good, but not to good and not quite all the time - George Orwell
François Gasnier wrote:
You people need to think practically. While applying the pastor theory (so that he can be consistent), you are probably not actually saving a life but surely endangering an other one.
We need to think *rationally* ... and your sort refuses to do this. Ah, yes! It's much better that a dozen or so hypothetical women not die annually due to "unsafe back-alley abortions" than that 1.5 millions of actual (and innocent) human beings make it safely into this life. Abortion is *never* safe for the baby. And you're OK with that.
François Gasnier wrote:
I can imagine that you do not care in the end. Eventually, it is about enforcing your point of view on people's life whatever the price is.
And you're not? Moreover, you're winking at killing other human beings, innocent human being ... at a whim. I find it just about impossible to believe that you're *really* as stupid as you're presenting yourself. So, are you just a hypocrite?
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73Zeppelin wrote:
Ever seen God Matty?
Ever seen your mind, Zippo? For that matter, have you ever seen your brain? CLEARLY, it would be a mistake to presume that you have either. Or, don't you like your own "logic" when it's pointed out how silly it is?
Ilíon wrote:
Ever seen your mind, Zippo?
How can you see the intangible? Actually, what was your brilliant definition of 'the mind' again? I can't quite remember...
Ilíon wrote:
For that matter, have you ever seen your brain?
I've seen my lungs and heart before on an x-ray. That was pretty cool.
Ilíon wrote:
CLEARLY, it would be a mistake to presume that you have either. Or, don't you like your own "logic" when it's pointed out how silly it is?
Wow...you're a dickhead.
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State your case or cork it.
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