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  4. Where did the credit crisis of today get it's start?

Where did the credit crisis of today get it's start?

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  • A Offline
    A Offline
    Adam Wimsatt
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    This article from Sept. 30, 1999 spells it out nicely: New York Times[^]

    Fuzzy Llama Creative Solutions, Inc. Wordles LLC Pachuko Boy

    7 M L C M 6 Replies Last reply
    0
    • A Adam Wimsatt

      This article from Sept. 30, 1999 spells it out nicely: New York Times[^]

      Fuzzy Llama Creative Solutions, Inc. Wordles LLC Pachuko Boy

      7 Offline
      7 Offline
      73Zeppelin
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      Nice find. Thanks. I liked this paragraph from 1999: "In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's."

      ...that mortally intolerable truth; that all deep, earnest thinking is but the intrepid effort of the soul to keep the open independence of her sea; while the wildest winds of heaven and earth conspire to cast her on the treacherous, slavish shore.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • A Adam Wimsatt

        This article from Sept. 30, 1999 spells it out nicely: New York Times[^]

        Fuzzy Llama Creative Solutions, Inc. Wordles LLC Pachuko Boy

        M Offline
        M Offline
        Mike Gaskey
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Here's a video from the UK version of you Tube. This was taken down from the US site the oher day, suppoedly a result of copyright infringement. 10 minutes that'll give a pretty solid understanding. the cause of the "crisis"[^]

        Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

        L 1 Reply Last reply
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        • A Adam Wimsatt

          This article from Sept. 30, 1999 spells it out nicely: New York Times[^]

          Fuzzy Llama Creative Solutions, Inc. Wordles LLC Pachuko Boy

          L Offline
          L Offline
          Lost User
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          Excellent find. It virtually forcasts the future: "If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out" Hey, la centraliste, this is exactly the sort of government interference Zepplin called socialism (and I called Thatcherism). This section states that cause, but also it reinforces somehting you wrote, that a free market in this sense is freedom to be greedy: "Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits." So, fuck the shareholders not the tax payer. ie, dont pass the Bush plan and let the financial institutions and all their stock holders go to the wall. Oh, and fuck that prick Clinton too. What a stupid thing to do. Lend money to the poorest, least capable people at a higher interest rate. Dear oh christ, what a fucking recipe for disaster.

          Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

          L B 2 Replies Last reply
          0
          • M Mike Gaskey

            Here's a video from the UK version of you Tube. This was taken down from the US site the oher day, suppoedly a result of copyright infringement. 10 minutes that'll give a pretty solid understanding. the cause of the "crisis"[^]

            Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

            L Offline
            L Offline
            Lost User
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            "GAs prices rose, food prices shot up"... due to Global Warming! Global Warming alarmism was the pin that burst the subprime mortgage bubble that caused the worlds markets to collapse thus ensuring noone would have anything to spend on Kyoto. Justice.

            Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

            L R O 3 Replies Last reply
            0
            • L Lost User

              Excellent find. It virtually forcasts the future: "If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out" Hey, la centraliste, this is exactly the sort of government interference Zepplin called socialism (and I called Thatcherism). This section states that cause, but also it reinforces somehting you wrote, that a free market in this sense is freedom to be greedy: "Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits." So, fuck the shareholders not the tax payer. ie, dont pass the Bush plan and let the financial institutions and all their stock holders go to the wall. Oh, and fuck that prick Clinton too. What a stupid thing to do. Lend money to the poorest, least capable people at a higher interest rate. Dear oh christ, what a fucking recipe for disaster.

              Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

              L Offline
              L Offline
              Le centriste
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              The measure is probably the source of the problem, but it could have succeeded too. It works in other countries, like the one I live in. The equivalent here is the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. It works very well. So, what is the difference that make it fail in the US? I may have an answer here: rich people in the US don't want to hear of any form of program that would help the less fortunate. When they are imposed to do so, they turn it into a fiasco on purpose and say: "Hey look, it does not work." Btw, do you own a house?

              R 1 Reply Last reply
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              • L Le centriste

                The measure is probably the source of the problem, but it could have succeeded too. It works in other countries, like the one I live in. The equivalent here is the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation. It works very well. So, what is the difference that make it fail in the US? I may have an answer here: rich people in the US don't want to hear of any form of program that would help the less fortunate. When they are imposed to do so, they turn it into a fiasco on purpose and say: "Hey look, it does not work." Btw, do you own a house?

                R Offline
                R Offline
                Rob Graham
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                What crap. Americans are among the most charitable people in the world. We do believe that it is more important to help a person help himself through training and fair opportunity than it is to simply dole out cash. Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day, teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life... You really believe that wealth is evil don't you? Do you realize that that belief alone condemns you to be poor all your life? Do you realize how silly and prejudiced you sound? Please change your nome de plume to le Socialiste or le Communiste, for you most certainly are not a centrist, but rather a classist and socialist.

                L 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • L Lost User

                  Excellent find. It virtually forcasts the future: "If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out" Hey, la centraliste, this is exactly the sort of government interference Zepplin called socialism (and I called Thatcherism). This section states that cause, but also it reinforces somehting you wrote, that a free market in this sense is freedom to be greedy: "Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits." So, fuck the shareholders not the tax payer. ie, dont pass the Bush plan and let the financial institutions and all their stock holders go to the wall. Oh, and fuck that prick Clinton too. What a stupid thing to do. Lend money to the poorest, least capable people at a higher interest rate. Dear oh christ, what a fucking recipe for disaster.

                  Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

                  B Offline
                  B Offline
                  BoneSoft
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  fat_boy wrote:

                  Oh, and f*** that prick Clinton too.

                  Don't forget Carter, who signed the bill that started the whole stinking mess[^].


                  Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

                  O K E 3 Replies Last reply
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                  • R Rob Graham

                    What crap. Americans are among the most charitable people in the world. We do believe that it is more important to help a person help himself through training and fair opportunity than it is to simply dole out cash. Give a man a fish and you feed him for one day, teach a man to fish, and you feed him for life... You really believe that wealth is evil don't you? Do you realize that that belief alone condemns you to be poor all your life? Do you realize how silly and prejudiced you sound? Please change your nome de plume to le Socialiste or le Communiste, for you most certainly are not a centrist, but rather a classist and socialist.

                    L Offline
                    L Offline
                    Le centriste
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    [Edit: corrected a typo.]

                    Rob Graham wrote:

                    You really believe that wealth is evil don't you?

                    Absolutely not. In fact, I would like to be rich, but not by sucking other people's money dry.

                    Rob Graham wrote:

                    Do you realize that that belief alone condemns you to be poor all your life?

                    Earning 150K a year does not make me poor, even if it is in Canadian dollars. I own a house, which is half-paid. I am not in debt over my head.

                    Rob Graham wrote:

                    Please change your nome de plume to le Socialiste or le Communiste

                    No, because I am not, although I am probably more on left than you are. You have to understand that everything is not black or white. There are lots of other options between the two. Unfortunately, for you, everything that is not capitalist is communist. This is a false dichotomy.

                    R O 2 Replies Last reply
                    0
                    • L Lost User

                      "GAs prices rose, food prices shot up"... due to Global Warming! Global Warming alarmism was the pin that burst the subprime mortgage bubble that caused the worlds markets to collapse thus ensuring noone would have anything to spend on Kyoto. Justice.

                      Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

                      L Offline
                      L Offline
                      Le centriste
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      fat_boy wrote:

                      due to Global Warming!

                      You cannot help it, rat_toy.

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • L Le centriste

                        [Edit: corrected a typo.]

                        Rob Graham wrote:

                        You really believe that wealth is evil don't you?

                        Absolutely not. In fact, I would like to be rich, but not by sucking other people's money dry.

                        Rob Graham wrote:

                        Do you realize that that belief alone condemns you to be poor all your life?

                        Earning 150K a year does not make me poor, even if it is in Canadian dollars. I own a house, which is half-paid. I am not in debt over my head.

                        Rob Graham wrote:

                        Please change your nome de plume to le Socialiste or le Communiste

                        No, because I am not, although I am probably more on left than you are. You have to understand that everything is not black or white. There are lots of other options between the two. Unfortunately, for you, everything that is not capitalist is communist. This is a false dichotomy.

                        R Offline
                        R Offline
                        Rob Graham
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        Le Centriste wrote:

                        Unfortunately, for you, everything that is not capitalist is communist.

                        No, not at all. I do recognize that there are shades of gray, and that pure capitalism fails (usually because of excess or the achievement of monopoly position) just as does pure socialism or communism (the Chinese have also recognized this). However, it really think that a statement like "rich people in the US don't want to hear of any form of program that would help the less fortunate. " is such a sweeping (and wrong) generalization that it suggests the person quoted has a very distorted view of the wealthy. Certainly some are selfish and greedy. Others, like Gates, Buffet, and many many more are quite charitable and actively working to help solve the world's problems. Your statement does not sound like someone who believes in shades of gray, but rather like someone who buys into the idea of class warfare, and identifies the rich as the enemy.

                        L 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • L Lost User

                          "GAs prices rose, food prices shot up"... due to Global Warming! Global Warming alarmism was the pin that burst the subprime mortgage bubble that caused the worlds markets to collapse thus ensuring noone would have anything to spend on Kyoto. Justice.

                          Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

                          R Offline
                          R Offline
                          Rob Graham
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          Actually, the defeat of the bailout bill has saved the world from Global warming. By depressing the economy to the point that the demand for fossil fuels is severely diminished, it has single handedly accomplished more than Kyoto ever did. Al Gore is so furious he can hardly stand it... no more need for carbon credits... how will he live...:rolleyes:

                          L 1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • L Le centriste

                            [Edit: corrected a typo.]

                            Rob Graham wrote:

                            You really believe that wealth is evil don't you?

                            Absolutely not. In fact, I would like to be rich, but not by sucking other people's money dry.

                            Rob Graham wrote:

                            Do you realize that that belief alone condemns you to be poor all your life?

                            Earning 150K a year does not make me poor, even if it is in Canadian dollars. I own a house, which is half-paid. I am not in debt over my head.

                            Rob Graham wrote:

                            Please change your nome de plume to le Socialiste or le Communiste

                            No, because I am not, although I am probably more on left than you are. You have to understand that everything is not black or white. There are lots of other options between the two. Unfortunately, for you, everything that is not capitalist is communist. This is a false dichotomy.

                            O Offline
                            O Offline
                            Oakman
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            Le Centriste wrote:

                            although I am probably more on left than you are

                            :omg: - you talk the talk of the far left, but you are indeed a blood-sucking capitalist who feathers his own nest while letting his brothers and sisters freeze to death in the cold dark Canadian winter.

                            Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                            L 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • R Rob Graham

                              Le Centriste wrote:

                              Unfortunately, for you, everything that is not capitalist is communist.

                              No, not at all. I do recognize that there are shades of gray, and that pure capitalism fails (usually because of excess or the achievement of monopoly position) just as does pure socialism or communism (the Chinese have also recognized this). However, it really think that a statement like "rich people in the US don't want to hear of any form of program that would help the less fortunate. " is such a sweeping (and wrong) generalization that it suggests the person quoted has a very distorted view of the wealthy. Certainly some are selfish and greedy. Others, like Gates, Buffet, and many many more are quite charitable and actively working to help solve the world's problems. Your statement does not sound like someone who believes in shades of gray, but rather like someone who buys into the idea of class warfare, and identifies the rich as the enemy.

                              L Offline
                              L Offline
                              Le centriste
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              Rob Graham wrote:

                              However, it really think that a statement like "rich people in the US don't want to hear of any form of program that would help the less fortunate. "

                              I am glad you point it out, because you are right. But I often hear the reverse "It does not work because of the communists". That is a good illustration of the misunderstanding of people of the situation (including myself). If we put our objectivity spectacles and look at it, how do you think this happened? Only because of the Democrats law? Only because of the rich bankers? I think both. Here, in Canada (a country many people in the USA love to hate), such a measure exists since 60 years and it is a success. All of my friends own a house, thanks to the CMHC (the equivalent of Fanny Mae in Canada). For an amount of about 3% of the amount of the loan, it is guaranteed by them, if you abide to certain rules. For instance, the house must not be overpriced and you must put a 5% cash down (they dropped that one some time ago, but brought it back lately, probably because of what is happening right now). Do you think that is what was missing in the Democrats plan?

                              O R 2 Replies Last reply
                              0
                              • B BoneSoft

                                fat_boy wrote:

                                Oh, and f*** that prick Clinton too.

                                Don't forget Carter, who signed the bill that started the whole stinking mess[^].


                                Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

                                O Offline
                                O Offline
                                Oakman
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                BoneSoft wrote:

                                Don't forget Carter

                                I bet you're disappointed you can't drag JFK into the mess, too ;)

                                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                R B 2 Replies Last reply
                                0
                                • O Oakman

                                  Le Centriste wrote:

                                  although I am probably more on left than you are

                                  :omg: - you talk the talk of the far left, but you are indeed a blood-sucking capitalist who feathers his own nest while letting his brothers and sisters freeze to death in the cold dark Canadian winter.

                                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                  L Offline
                                  L Offline
                                  Le centriste
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  I don't talk the talk of the far left. Educate yourself of the far left and their crimes to the humanity then we can have a decent talk. In the meantime, go back to your hole.

                                  O 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • L Le centriste

                                    Rob Graham wrote:

                                    However, it really think that a statement like "rich people in the US don't want to hear of any form of program that would help the less fortunate. "

                                    I am glad you point it out, because you are right. But I often hear the reverse "It does not work because of the communists". That is a good illustration of the misunderstanding of people of the situation (including myself). If we put our objectivity spectacles and look at it, how do you think this happened? Only because of the Democrats law? Only because of the rich bankers? I think both. Here, in Canada (a country many people in the USA love to hate), such a measure exists since 60 years and it is a success. All of my friends own a house, thanks to the CMHC (the equivalent of Fanny Mae in Canada). For an amount of about 3% of the amount of the loan, it is guaranteed by them, if you abide to certain rules. For instance, the house must not be overpriced and you must put a 5% cash down (they dropped that one some time ago, but brought it back lately, probably because of what is happening right now). Do you think that is what was missing in the Democrats plan?

                                    O Offline
                                    O Offline
                                    Oakman
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    Le Centriste wrote:

                                    a country many people in the USA love to hate

                                    While I am sure there are some Canada haters besides Ilion, I think you would find, if you stopped getting your news from anti-American newspapers, that most American have a very positive opinion of northern neighbors - although many of us do wish you'd stop cluttering up our doctor's offices and would silence Celine Dion and Anne Murray :-D

                                    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                    L 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • L Le centriste

                                      I don't talk the talk of the far left. Educate yourself of the far left and their crimes to the humanity then we can have a decent talk. In the meantime, go back to your hole.

                                      O Offline
                                      O Offline
                                      Oakman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      Le Centriste wrote:

                                      Educate yourself of the far left and their crimes to the humanity then we can have a decent talk. In the meantime, go back to your hole.

                                      I must have struck a nerve - feeling a little guilty about the way you are sucking the life blood of your bretheren and sistren in your drive to become rich?

                                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                                      L 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • A Adam Wimsatt

                                        This article from Sept. 30, 1999 spells it out nicely: New York Times[^]

                                        Fuzzy Llama Creative Solutions, Inc. Wordles LLC Pachuko Boy

                                        C Offline
                                        C Offline
                                        Chris Austin
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Damn!!!!! That was my 27th birthday.....noooooo!!!!

                                        Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • L Le centriste

                                          Rob Graham wrote:

                                          However, it really think that a statement like "rich people in the US don't want to hear of any form of program that would help the less fortunate. "

                                          I am glad you point it out, because you are right. But I often hear the reverse "It does not work because of the communists". That is a good illustration of the misunderstanding of people of the situation (including myself). If we put our objectivity spectacles and look at it, how do you think this happened? Only because of the Democrats law? Only because of the rich bankers? I think both. Here, in Canada (a country many people in the USA love to hate), such a measure exists since 60 years and it is a success. All of my friends own a house, thanks to the CMHC (the equivalent of Fanny Mae in Canada). For an amount of about 3% of the amount of the loan, it is guaranteed by them, if you abide to certain rules. For instance, the house must not be overpriced and you must put a 5% cash down (they dropped that one some time ago, but brought it back lately, probably because of what is happening right now). Do you think that is what was missing in the Democrats plan?

                                          R Offline
                                          R Offline
                                          Rob Graham
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          Certainly some unscrupulous (greedy, over enthusiastic, who knows) bankers took advantage of the situation. Certainly there were abuses of the system by both borrowers and lenders. The law changes (and the Democrats do not deserve sole blame here, Republicans contributed some "deregulation" that compounded the mess) created the environment that allowed the abuse and lead to the collapse. Some abusers hid the true value (or rather lack thereof) of the "investment vehicles" that were tied to these mortgages. As Zep has said, the real cause was lack of transparency - no one could easily tell what was going on, so some were able to game the system for a while. Now someone gets to pay the price of that gaming, and I, for one don't think it should be people like you or me, but rather those who created the problem with flawed investment vehicles and bad lending practice. Even at the expense of some short term economic pain for all of us, I think we should let the market punish those who played this corrupt game, rather than take from all to avoid their suffering along with a small amount on our own. I think the politicians (all flavors) and media are being "chicken little" here, trying to frighten us into taking their buddies off the hook. The sky is not falling.


                                          Last modified: after originally posted -- I can't type or spell...

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