Powell endorses Obama
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Sorry, John, but that sounds like fundamentalist dogma to me.
Sure it does. You like to view things in a binary world: either a person has to have no standards at all --- no basis for judging anything --- or be a fundamentalist. There is nothing inbetween. I disagree.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
You like to view things in a binary world
At least I made it to binary...
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the one playing dumb. The man has a muslim name. We live in a country that recently had thousands of its citizens murdered in the name of Islam. It stands to reason that there might be at least a few individuals who might be a bit concerned about that association. In fact, the altogether bizarre coincidnece of getting our first president with a muslim name only a few years after such an incident almost deserves a twilight zone theme. It is compltetly f***ing unbelievable.
So you have now dropped the pretence and effectively admitted that this is a matter of anti-Muslim bigotry --- and at the idiot level of what a person's middle name happens to be.
Stan Shannon wrote:
But, it is hardly the fault of any republican that his name is Hussien and there is absolutely nothing wrong, racist or xenophobic about using it.
Back to playing dumb again.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Well, how many? Can't we get specific? Ain't there a poll out there somewhere?
Not to my knowledge. However, I figure that Republican politicians, radio hosts, Fox news blatherers and the like have a reasonable understanding of their base and what appeals to it.
John Carson
modified on Monday, October 20, 2008 7:14 PM
John Carson wrote:
So you have now dropped the pretence and effectively admitted that this is a matter of anti-Muslim bigotry --- and at the idiot level of what a person's middle name happens to be.
The only thing I'm admitting is that you are playing the race/culture/religion card. It would be impossible for someone somewhere to not make the obvious association with the man's middle name. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. The only person in this entire campaign being persecuted for an association with religion is Sarah Palin, not Barack Obama. But thats all ok because...well... apparently becuase you say so. I'll be sure that all future criticisms of Obama have your permission before they are made public. Why don't you guys just set up the "official democrat approval agency for criticism of democrat candidates". That would help avoid all these pesky free speech issues in the future.
John Carson wrote:
Back to playing dumb again.
No, really, its not our fault. We were not around when Obamas communist, muslim father named him. Oh, and btw, Joe the Plumber wasn't a plant either.
John Carson wrote:
I figure that Republican politicians, radio hosts, Fox news blatherers and the like have a reasonable understanding of their base and what appeals to it.
I listen to all those sources frequently and have not heard the name "Hussien" mentioned once. Unlike your side, those guys usually stick to the issues. You know, like Barcks life long record of hardcore, radical, communist associations.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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John Carson wrote:
So you have now dropped the pretence and effectively admitted that this is a matter of anti-Muslim bigotry --- and at the idiot level of what a person's middle name happens to be.
The only thing I'm admitting is that you are playing the race/culture/religion card. It would be impossible for someone somewhere to not make the obvious association with the man's middle name. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. The only person in this entire campaign being persecuted for an association with religion is Sarah Palin, not Barack Obama. But thats all ok because...well... apparently becuase you say so. I'll be sure that all future criticisms of Obama have your permission before they are made public. Why don't you guys just set up the "official democrat approval agency for criticism of democrat candidates". That would help avoid all these pesky free speech issues in the future.
John Carson wrote:
Back to playing dumb again.
No, really, its not our fault. We were not around when Obamas communist, muslim father named him. Oh, and btw, Joe the Plumber wasn't a plant either.
John Carson wrote:
I figure that Republican politicians, radio hosts, Fox news blatherers and the like have a reasonable understanding of their base and what appeals to it.
I listen to all those sources frequently and have not heard the name "Hussien" mentioned once. Unlike your side, those guys usually stick to the issues. You know, like Barcks life long record of hardcore, radical, communist associations.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
It would be impossible for someone somewhere to not make the obvious association with the man's middle name. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
We are not talking about "someone somewhere". We are talking about the repeated use of Obama's middle name by Republicans trying to appeal to the tiny-brained bigots who form a significant part of their base. The idea that someone's middle name should be an issue is just contemptible.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I listen to all those sources frequently and have not heard the name "Hussien" mentioned once.
You must have the source set on mute.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Unlike your side, those guys usually stick to the issues. You know, like Barcks life long record of hardcore, radical, communist associations.
Just as Bush faked the case for WMD in Iraq by cherry picking, Republicans are now cherry picking Obama's associations. The fact that Republicans were on the same board with Obama as Ayres is conveniently ignored, as is the fact that the whole thing was funded by the charitable foundation of a Republican philanthropist who was a friend of Ronald Reagan, Nixon's ambassador to Britain, the man who introduced Reagan and Thatcher to each other... The Republicans really are in the gutter. Voting them out will greatly advance the cause of decency in the United States.
John Carson
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Stan Shannon wrote:
It would be impossible for someone somewhere to not make the obvious association with the man's middle name. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.
We are not talking about "someone somewhere". We are talking about the repeated use of Obama's middle name by Republicans trying to appeal to the tiny-brained bigots who form a significant part of their base. The idea that someone's middle name should be an issue is just contemptible.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I listen to all those sources frequently and have not heard the name "Hussien" mentioned once.
You must have the source set on mute.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Unlike your side, those guys usually stick to the issues. You know, like Barcks life long record of hardcore, radical, communist associations.
Just as Bush faked the case for WMD in Iraq by cherry picking, Republicans are now cherry picking Obama's associations. The fact that Republicans were on the same board with Obama as Ayres is conveniently ignored, as is the fact that the whole thing was funded by the charitable foundation of a Republican philanthropist who was a friend of Ronald Reagan, Nixon's ambassador to Britain, the man who introduced Reagan and Thatcher to each other... The Republicans really are in the gutter. Voting them out will greatly advance the cause of decency in the United States.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
We are talking about the repeated use of Obama's middle name by Republicans
Who? I've got O'Reilly on right now and haven't heard "Hussien" one time. (Is it ok for me to write "Hussien"?)
John Carson wrote:
You must have the source set on mute.
Nope, my wife is always yelling at me to turn the sound down.
John Carson wrote:
Just as Bush faked the case for WMD in Iraq by cherry picking, Republicans are now cherry picking Obama's associations.
No they aren't. Those are the only associations he had prior to being given office by the Chicago machine. He lived in a throughly radicalized social universe from childhood.
John Carson wrote:
charitable foundation of a Republican philanthropist
A what? The difference is that those others had many other associations. This was simply one of many associations that these people participated in. Obama has no other pre-campaign associations worth mentioning.
John Carson wrote:
The Republicans really are in the gutter. Voting them out will greatly advance the cause of decency in the United States.
Fuck you, John. You are a collectivist and a secularist. Your interest in this campaign is an example of what this is really all about. The continued and stubborn existence of a conservative core in the US stands as a tremendous obstacle to international marxism. The republicans give some small degree of access to politcal power to that group and that is why the republicans are vilified and attacked by people like you. Well, I got news for you, we ain't going away. Obama's adminitration will be a desaster. He is in a no-win situation. The situation could not be more perfectly designed for a conservative resurgennce that will make the Reagan era seem like the FDR administration. That might not be true if there were any sort of moderating influence left in the democrat party, but there isn't. We are going to win, John, because we are right about everything, and you can't stop it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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John Carson wrote:
We are talking about the repeated use of Obama's middle name by Republicans
Who? I've got O'Reilly on right now and haven't heard "Hussien" one time. (Is it ok for me to write "Hussien"?)
John Carson wrote:
You must have the source set on mute.
Nope, my wife is always yelling at me to turn the sound down.
John Carson wrote:
Just as Bush faked the case for WMD in Iraq by cherry picking, Republicans are now cherry picking Obama's associations.
No they aren't. Those are the only associations he had prior to being given office by the Chicago machine. He lived in a throughly radicalized social universe from childhood.
John Carson wrote:
charitable foundation of a Republican philanthropist
A what? The difference is that those others had many other associations. This was simply one of many associations that these people participated in. Obama has no other pre-campaign associations worth mentioning.
John Carson wrote:
The Republicans really are in the gutter. Voting them out will greatly advance the cause of decency in the United States.
Fuck you, John. You are a collectivist and a secularist. Your interest in this campaign is an example of what this is really all about. The continued and stubborn existence of a conservative core in the US stands as a tremendous obstacle to international marxism. The republicans give some small degree of access to politcal power to that group and that is why the republicans are vilified and attacked by people like you. Well, I got news for you, we ain't going away. Obama's adminitration will be a desaster. He is in a no-win situation. The situation could not be more perfectly designed for a conservative resurgennce that will make the Reagan era seem like the FDR administration. That might not be true if there were any sort of moderating influence left in the democrat party, but there isn't. We are going to win, John, because we are right about everything, and you can't stop it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Who? I've got O'Reilly on right now and haven't heard "Hussien" one time.
Ah well, that proves it. For examples: Hannity and that knuckle-dragging moron who is on in the morning with two other people (I don't know his name). See here for other examples. http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/president/30640419.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUnciatkEP7DhUsX[^]'
Stan Shannon wrote:
(Is it ok for me to write "Hussien"?)
It would be better if you could spell it correctly.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Those are the only associations he had prior to being given office by the Chicago machine. He lived in a throughly radicalized social universe from childhood.
You are delusional.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The difference is that those others had many other associations.
So has Obama.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The republicans give some small degree of access to politcal power to that group and that is why the republicans are vilified and attacked by people like you.
McCain's campaign is also being attacked by some of the more decent conservatives.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Obama's adminitration will be a desaster. He is in a no-win situation. The situation could not be more perfectly designed for a conservative resurgennce that will make the Reagan era seem like the FDR administration. That might not be true if there were any sort of moderating influence left in the democrat party, but there isn't. We are going to win, John, because we are right about everything, and you can't stop it.
Obama will face formidable difficulties for one reason only: Bush has thoroughly stuffed up the country, both economically and in its foreign relations. Nevertheless, Obama is a once-in-a-generation leader. I give him an even money chance of governing with such distinction that he will set the tone for a Democratic pol
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Who? I've got O'Reilly on right now and haven't heard "Hussien" one time.
Ah well, that proves it. For examples: Hannity and that knuckle-dragging moron who is on in the morning with two other people (I don't know his name). See here for other examples. http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/president/30640419.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUnciatkEP7DhUsX[^]'
Stan Shannon wrote:
(Is it ok for me to write "Hussien"?)
It would be better if you could spell it correctly.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Those are the only associations he had prior to being given office by the Chicago machine. He lived in a throughly radicalized social universe from childhood.
You are delusional.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The difference is that those others had many other associations.
So has Obama.
Stan Shannon wrote:
The republicans give some small degree of access to politcal power to that group and that is why the republicans are vilified and attacked by people like you.
McCain's campaign is also being attacked by some of the more decent conservatives.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Obama's adminitration will be a desaster. He is in a no-win situation. The situation could not be more perfectly designed for a conservative resurgennce that will make the Reagan era seem like the FDR administration. That might not be true if there were any sort of moderating influence left in the democrat party, but there isn't. We are going to win, John, because we are right about everything, and you can't stop it.
Obama will face formidable difficulties for one reason only: Bush has thoroughly stuffed up the country, both economically and in its foreign relations. Nevertheless, Obama is a once-in-a-generation leader. I give him an even money chance of governing with such distinction that he will set the tone for a Democratic pol
John Carson wrote:
or examples: Hannity and that knuckle-dragging moron who is on in the morning with two other people (I don't know his name).
I don't know his name either. Hannity hasn't used it when I've been listening.
John Carson wrote:
Oh, well that prooves it. Didn't McCains begging for forgivness from the Messiah make any difference at all? Is there no salvation in this new religion?
John Carson wrote:
S
Who? Name me three completely ordinary, mainstream, but important, professional associations Obama had before assuming an actual political office. And tell me what role the played in advancing his career.
John Carson wrote:
McCain's campaign is also being attacked by some of the more decent conservatives.
Such as Powell? the guy who is afraid that we might get more conservative justices on the supreme court?
John Carson wrote:
Obama will face formidable difficulties for one reason only: Bush has thoroughly stuffed up the country, both economically and in its foreign relations. Nevertheless, Obama is a once-in-a-generation leader. I give him an even money chance of governing with such distinction that he will set the tone for a Democratic politics that will dominate for the next 30 years.
Unless Bush has, in fact, been doing everything correctly. If Obama changes Bush's policies and things get worse, or there is another terrorist attack, he will be crucified by those center right americans who were deluded into voting for him. (so much for the messiah) if there is anything that he decides not to change, he will get crucified by his own. Americans still value personal repsonsibilit before all other things, gettng a taste of the radical agenda the democrats have in store for them, will quickly remind the AMerican electorate of who they really are. Oh, and btw, there is a rumor circulating that Israel might decide to attack Iran immediately if Obama is elected. He might be inheriting a world war. Man, wouldn't that be a hoot!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside fro
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Oakman wrote:
But, I'd guess you'd agree that it is a case where society tells its citizens what they can and can't do with their bodies.
OK, there's an exception to the rule. But, again, it's a law that can be violated without consequence, so it's easy to ignore.
Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)
Al Beback wrote:
OK, there's an exception to the rule
Once there's an exception there's no rule. You know that as well as I do.
Al Beback wrote:
But, again, it's a law that can be violated without consequence
There are also laws that vary from state to state and country to country telling people what they can and can do when it comes to putting drugs in their body. Many states regulate who when and where someone can get a tattoo. These are all laws that cannot be ignored with impunity.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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John Carson wrote:
or examples: Hannity and that knuckle-dragging moron who is on in the morning with two other people (I don't know his name).
I don't know his name either. Hannity hasn't used it when I've been listening.
John Carson wrote:
Oh, well that prooves it. Didn't McCains begging for forgivness from the Messiah make any difference at all? Is there no salvation in this new religion?
John Carson wrote:
S
Who? Name me three completely ordinary, mainstream, but important, professional associations Obama had before assuming an actual political office. And tell me what role the played in advancing his career.
John Carson wrote:
McCain's campaign is also being attacked by some of the more decent conservatives.
Such as Powell? the guy who is afraid that we might get more conservative justices on the supreme court?
John Carson wrote:
Obama will face formidable difficulties for one reason only: Bush has thoroughly stuffed up the country, both economically and in its foreign relations. Nevertheless, Obama is a once-in-a-generation leader. I give him an even money chance of governing with such distinction that he will set the tone for a Democratic politics that will dominate for the next 30 years.
Unless Bush has, in fact, been doing everything correctly. If Obama changes Bush's policies and things get worse, or there is another terrorist attack, he will be crucified by those center right americans who were deluded into voting for him. (so much for the messiah) if there is anything that he decides not to change, he will get crucified by his own. Americans still value personal repsonsibilit before all other things, gettng a taste of the radical agenda the democrats have in store for them, will quickly remind the AMerican electorate of who they really are. Oh, and btw, there is a rumor circulating that Israel might decide to attack Iran immediately if Obama is elected. He might be inheriting a world war. Man, wouldn't that be a hoot!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside fro
Stan Shannon wrote:
Who? Name me three completely ordinary, mainstream, but important, professional associations Obama had before assuming an actual political office.
Name me three radicals that fit the same criteria. If you count Ayres, then you have to count the mainstream people who sat on the boards as well. That's three already. Your whole line of enquiry is fueled by paranoia. After graduating from Columbia, Obama worked for a year at a company that advised international businesses. Pure capitalism. He later moved to Chicago where he worked as a community organiser. This involved working with anyone and everyone trying to advance the local community. This meant numerous churches, local school principals, local businesses...you name it. Then he went to Harvard Law School and as President of the Harvard Law Review, interacted with people of all political persuasions. One of them, conservative legal scholar Michael W. McConnell, offered Obama a job at the University of Chicago Law School, a school dominated by conservatives. Five years later he was elected to the State Senate, where he earned the respect of many Republicans. Go do some Googling to find comments by Republicans who served with him in Illinois.
John Carson
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John Carson wrote:
or examples: Hannity and that knuckle-dragging moron who is on in the morning with two other people (I don't know his name).
I don't know his name either. Hannity hasn't used it when I've been listening.
John Carson wrote:
Oh, well that prooves it. Didn't McCains begging for forgivness from the Messiah make any difference at all? Is there no salvation in this new religion?
John Carson wrote:
S
Who? Name me three completely ordinary, mainstream, but important, professional associations Obama had before assuming an actual political office. And tell me what role the played in advancing his career.
John Carson wrote:
McCain's campaign is also being attacked by some of the more decent conservatives.
Such as Powell? the guy who is afraid that we might get more conservative justices on the supreme court?
John Carson wrote:
Obama will face formidable difficulties for one reason only: Bush has thoroughly stuffed up the country, both economically and in its foreign relations. Nevertheless, Obama is a once-in-a-generation leader. I give him an even money chance of governing with such distinction that he will set the tone for a Democratic politics that will dominate for the next 30 years.
Unless Bush has, in fact, been doing everything correctly. If Obama changes Bush's policies and things get worse, or there is another terrorist attack, he will be crucified by those center right americans who were deluded into voting for him. (so much for the messiah) if there is anything that he decides not to change, he will get crucified by his own. Americans still value personal repsonsibilit before all other things, gettng a taste of the radical agenda the democrats have in store for them, will quickly remind the AMerican electorate of who they really are. Oh, and btw, there is a rumor circulating that Israel might decide to attack Iran immediately if Obama is elected. He might be inheriting a world war. Man, wouldn't that be a hoot!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside fro
Stan Shannon wrote:
I don't know his name either.
The turkey in question is Steve Doocy.
John Carson
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Anyone who advocates for abortion is not a CHristian. Anyone who supports abortion is not a Christian. Anyone who makes excuses for abortion is not a Christian. Anyone who will not admit that abortion is sin is not a Christian. Walking into a church building doesn't make you a Christian any more than walking into a McDonald's makes you a hamburger.
Where in the bible does Jesus say you are not a Christian if you don't agree that Abortion is a sin? Is that the Good News?
Ilíon wrote:
Walking into a church building doesn't make you a Christian any more than walking into a McDonald's makes you a hamburger.
And stating something as fact doesn't make it the truth.
I've heard more said about less.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Who? Name me three completely ordinary, mainstream, but important, professional associations Obama had before assuming an actual political office.
Name me three radicals that fit the same criteria. If you count Ayres, then you have to count the mainstream people who sat on the boards as well. That's three already. Your whole line of enquiry is fueled by paranoia. After graduating from Columbia, Obama worked for a year at a company that advised international businesses. Pure capitalism. He later moved to Chicago where he worked as a community organiser. This involved working with anyone and everyone trying to advance the local community. This meant numerous churches, local school principals, local businesses...you name it. Then he went to Harvard Law School and as President of the Harvard Law Review, interacted with people of all political persuasions. One of them, conservative legal scholar Michael W. McConnell, offered Obama a job at the University of Chicago Law School, a school dominated by conservatives. Five years later he was elected to the State Senate, where he earned the respect of many Republicans. Go do some Googling to find comments by Republicans who served with him in Illinois.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
If you count Ayres, then you have to count the mainstream people who sat on the boards as well. That's three already.
No you don't. Obama had more contact with Ayers than just that board. He lauched his first political campaign from Ayers hosue. He has written blubs for Ayers books. The two have any number or professional political relationships. Rev Wright was crucial to his career - putting hin touch with a large community or leftist radicals who actively promoted his ambitions. And if you want to discuss Harvard, you have to discuss how he got there. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76170[^]
John Carson wrote:
After graduating from Columbia, Obama worked for a year at a company that advised international businesses. Pure capitalism.
Which he himself described as being 'behind enemy lines' or something to that affect.
John Carson wrote:
churches, local school principals, local busines
WHich were either radical, or which he tried to help radicalize with the help of groups such as ACORN and friends such as Ayers. He strong armed businesses into providing him with financial help. And none of that even mentions that Rexko (or what ever the hell his name is) it als doesn't address the assistance he has recieved from radical groups such as moveon.org and othrs. It isn't paranoia, its the man's history. Even as a child he was mentored by rabid communists. His entire adult life has been an exploration of the most radically leftist elements of American society.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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John Carson wrote:
If you count Ayres, then you have to count the mainstream people who sat on the boards as well. That's three already.
No you don't. Obama had more contact with Ayers than just that board. He lauched his first political campaign from Ayers hosue. He has written blubs for Ayers books. The two have any number or professional political relationships. Rev Wright was crucial to his career - putting hin touch with a large community or leftist radicals who actively promoted his ambitions. And if you want to discuss Harvard, you have to discuss how he got there. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=76170[^]
John Carson wrote:
After graduating from Columbia, Obama worked for a year at a company that advised international businesses. Pure capitalism.
Which he himself described as being 'behind enemy lines' or something to that affect.
John Carson wrote:
churches, local school principals, local busines
WHich were either radical, or which he tried to help radicalize with the help of groups such as ACORN and friends such as Ayers. He strong armed businesses into providing him with financial help. And none of that even mentions that Rexko (or what ever the hell his name is) it als doesn't address the assistance he has recieved from radical groups such as moveon.org and othrs. It isn't paranoia, its the man's history. Even as a child he was mentored by rabid communists. His entire adult life has been an exploration of the most radically leftist elements of American society.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Obama had more contact with Ayers than just that board.
And no doubt more contact with many other people as well.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Rev Wright was crucial to his career - putting hin touch with a large community or leftist radicals who actively promoted his ambitions.
I don't think that is true. No doubt Obama met some useful congregants (Oprah, for example, that well-known dangerous radical), but Obama met people all over the place. I don't think Wright has had much active involvement in Obama's political career.
Stan Shannon wrote:
And if you want to discuss Harvard, you have to discuss how he got there.
No-one is disputing that Obama has some radical connections. The point is that he has connections across the board.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Which he himself described as being 'behind enemy lines' or something to that affect.
He has a sense of humour. Shocking!
Stan Shannon wrote:
WHich were either radical, or which he tried to help radicalize with the help of groups such as ACORN and friends such as Ayers. He strong armed businesses into providing him with financial help.
Fact-free smears. Standard Republican tactics.
Stan Shannon wrote:
It isn't paranoia, its the man's history. Even as a child he was mentored by rabid communists. His entire adult life has been an exploration of the most radically leftist elements of American society.
Rubbish. He has a diverse background, which is a strength, not a weakness. Are you unaware that many of the neo-cons have left wing backgrounds?
John Carson