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  4. Good Old Professor Dawkins [modified]

Good Old Professor Dawkins [modified]

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  • O Oakman

    Dalek Dave wrote:

    It is enough to believe that a garden is beautiful, without believing there are fairies at the bottom of it!

    Y'know, you're funnier when you come home drunk and post gibberish

    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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    Dalek Dave
    wrote on last edited by
    #94

    You know, I didn't think this would go so deep or so far, and I think you may be right about the gibberish, at least people just think "Uh-Oh, Dave's been at the sauce again". Memo to self...Go get a few beers down you !

    ------------------------------------ "October: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in." - Mark Twain

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    • O Oakman

      Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

      Jesus healed Lazarus using supernatural powers

      How do you know that? Were you there? Did you at least read the Greek version of the New Testament? Or are you relying on what you saw in a movie once?

      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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      soap brain
      wrote on last edited by
      #95

      Oakman wrote:

      How do you know that? Were you there?

      Yeah.

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      • O Oakman

        Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

        What is it about religion that completely shreds people's ability to think clearly

        What is it about being 14 that makes one so sure he knows every about everything?

        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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        soap brain
        wrote on last edited by
        #96

        I hate you.

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        • D Dalek Dave

          Matthew Faithfull wrote:

          The historical fact of the ressurection of Jesus Christ from the dead

          You have entirely the wrong word here, 'Fact' does not mean 'Single Source from work of fiction'

          ------------------------------------ "October: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in." - Mark Twain

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          Matthew Faithfull
          wrote on last edited by
          #97

          We all have much to learn it seems: As MS like to say 'START HERE'. :) [^]

          "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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          • R RichardGrimmer

            Matthew Faithfull wrote:

            The historical fact of the ressurection of Jesus Christ from the dead is the full and final proof.

            Codswallop - utter, unabashed, unadulterated codswallop....what a tool...

            C# has already designed away most of the tedium of C++.

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            Matthew Faithfull
            wrote on last edited by
            #98

            And I suppose you'd like to provide, evidence, backup, reasoning or even grammar for that opinion. I can only warn you otherwise that there are many here who demand proof entirely on their own thoroughly ridiculous terms of every opinion they disagree with. So you'd better hope they all agree with you or expect to get flamed. :laugh:

            "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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            • D Dalek Dave

              It is impossible to prove a negative. And since atheists do not require a god to explain the universe, they merely observe and learn, they do not require a god to be believed in. Only people who lack the ability to think for themselves need a god to do the explaining for them. It is enough to believe that a garden is beautiful, without believing there are fairies at the bottom of it!

              ------------------------------------ "October: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in." - Mark Twain

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              Rob Graham
              wrote on last edited by
              #99

              None of what you say is incorrect, however, you did not answer Karl's quite reasonable question. You object to the the word "probably" in the statement "there is probably no God". This suggests that you are certain of that conclusion, so it is reasonable to inquire how you arrived at it. The the first answer you gave suggests that you merely believe that there is no God, which puts you in exactly the same position as those who merely believe that there is. The remaining two statements are not answers at all, but instead an ad-hominem attack on the questioner, which demeans you and your position.

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              • M Matthew Faithfull

                You have already proved yourself wrong by claiming knowledge that you cannot have. No further proof or in fact other proof can be obtained. It is impossible to KNOW for certain what is not true.

                "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                Al Beback
                wrote on last edited by
                #100

                Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                You have already proved yourself wrong by claiming knowledge that you cannot have. No further proof or in fact other proof can be obtained. It is impossible to KNOW for certain what is not true.

                How does this change when you substitute the word 'God' with Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, Mermaids, Dragons, etc. Until there's evidence of any of these beings, isn't it correct to say that we know that they don't exist nor have they ever existed? There are plenty of books (hundreds of years old even) that mention their existence -- yet we know they don't exist. There may even be people who claim to have felt their presence -- yet we know they don't exist. But God somehow doesn't subscribe to this logic. Is it because of his awesome magical powers? Or because there are lots of regular folks who claim to believe in him? Or because of the age of the Bible? Perhaps it's just fear of the unknown -- the afterlife. What compels you?

                Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)

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                • A Al Beback

                  Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                  You have already proved yourself wrong by claiming knowledge that you cannot have. No further proof or in fact other proof can be obtained. It is impossible to KNOW for certain what is not true.

                  How does this change when you substitute the word 'God' with Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, Mermaids, Dragons, etc. Until there's evidence of any of these beings, isn't it correct to say that we know that they don't exist nor have they ever existed? There are plenty of books (hundreds of years old even) that mention their existence -- yet we know they don't exist. There may even be people who claim to have felt their presence -- yet we know they don't exist. But God somehow doesn't subscribe to this logic. Is it because of his awesome magical powers? Or because there are lots of regular folks who claim to believe in him? Or because of the age of the Bible? Perhaps it's just fear of the unknown -- the afterlife. What compels you?

                  Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)

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                  73Zeppelin
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #101

                  Al Beback wrote:

                  What compels you?

                  "The power of Christ compels you!" :laugh:

                  "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank."

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                  • 7 73Zeppelin

                    Ka?l wrote:

                    Can you prove there is no God or is it just a belief?

                    That's a non-argument. The onus of proof isn't on those who don't believe, it's on those that do. If you want to invoke the concept of 'god', then it's up to you to prove his existence, it's not up to others to demonstrate his non-existence.

                    "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank."

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                    Rob Graham
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #102

                    I don't think Karl was making an argument, but rather asking a perfectly valid question raised by Dave's discomfort with the lack of certainty created by the word "probably" in the statement to be placed on the buses. That discomfort suggests the Dave is certain, and if so, it is fair to ask how he arrives at that certainty.

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                    • A Al Beback

                      Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                      You have already proved yourself wrong by claiming knowledge that you cannot have. No further proof or in fact other proof can be obtained. It is impossible to KNOW for certain what is not true.

                      How does this change when you substitute the word 'God' with Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, Mermaids, Dragons, etc. Until there's evidence of any of these beings, isn't it correct to say that we know that they don't exist nor have they ever existed? There are plenty of books (hundreds of years old even) that mention their existence -- yet we know they don't exist. There may even be people who claim to have felt their presence -- yet we know they don't exist. But God somehow doesn't subscribe to this logic. Is it because of his awesome magical powers? Or because there are lots of regular folks who claim to believe in him? Or because of the age of the Bible? Perhaps it's just fear of the unknown -- the afterlife. What compels you?

                      Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)

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                      Matthew Faithfull
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #103

                      Al Beback wrote:

                      isn't it correct to say that we know that they don't exist nor have they ever existed?

                      Indeed it is correct because we made them up, rather than them making us up as in the case of God. When Ravel's bed goblin (see other part of this thread) turns to him and says, you don't exist then Ravel will know one of two things for sure. Either he's a deity or he's quite mad. If you want evidence for the existence of God, look in the mirror, not because you are God but because you are made in the image of God and you are fearfully and wonderfully made.

                      Al Beback wrote:

                      What compels you?

                      The spirit of God and until you have been so compelled it is impossible to comprehend what that is like.

                      "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                      • 7 73Zeppelin

                        Al Beback wrote:

                        What compels you?

                        "The power of Christ compels you!" :laugh:

                        "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank."

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                        Matthew Faithfull
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #104

                        :-D :cool::rose:Hurrah! Zep has scored a direct hit! Well done old chap you hit the nail on the head. :-D

                        "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                        • 7 73Zeppelin

                          Al Beback wrote:

                          What compels you?

                          "The power of Christ compels you!" :laugh:

                          "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank."

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                          Al Beback
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #105

                          73Zeppelin wrote:

                          "The power of Christ compels you!"

                          Of course. :doh: :)

                          Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)

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                          • D Dalek Dave

                            Putting your money where your mouth is[^] I object to the word 'Probably'. But it will cause an absolute flame war, so good! Here are the donations so far[^]. All within about 3 hours!

                            ------------------------------------ "October: This is one of the peculiarly dangerous months to speculate in stocks in." - Mark Twain

                            modified on Tuesday, October 21, 2008 5:05 AM

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                            hairy_hats
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #106

                            The BBC are now running this story: "Stephen Green of pressure group Christian Voice said: 'Bendy-buses, like atheism, are a danger to the public at large.' "

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                            • M Matthew Faithfull

                              :-D :cool::rose:Hurrah! Zep has scored a direct hit! Well done old chap you hit the nail on the head. :-D

                              "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                              73Zeppelin
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #107

                              :laugh: Right over your head at supersonic speed! ZZZZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!

                              "If only God would give me some clear sign! Like making a large deposit in my name in a Swiss bank."

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                              • M Matthew Faithfull

                                Al Beback wrote:

                                isn't it correct to say that we know that they don't exist nor have they ever existed?

                                Indeed it is correct because we made them up, rather than them making us up as in the case of God. When Ravel's bed goblin (see other part of this thread) turns to him and says, you don't exist then Ravel will know one of two things for sure. Either he's a deity or he's quite mad. If you want evidence for the existence of God, look in the mirror, not because you are God but because you are made in the image of God and you are fearfully and wonderfully made.

                                Al Beback wrote:

                                What compels you?

                                The spirit of God and until you have been so compelled it is impossible to comprehend what that is like.

                                "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                                Al Beback
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #108

                                Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                The spirit of God and until you have been so compelled it is impossible to comprehend what that is like.

                                But you hear crazy people say the same things and we call them crazy. I'm not saying you're crazy, but surely you can agree that if you were the only person in your town/city going around professing your belief in the supernatural, you'd be committed or at least dismissed as a loon. Why keep making excuses for God? If he really wants us to belief and worship his perfect ass, why doesn't he show himself? Why would that be a bad thing?

                                Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)

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                                • A Al Beback

                                  Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                  The spirit of God and until you have been so compelled it is impossible to comprehend what that is like.

                                  But you hear crazy people say the same things and we call them crazy. I'm not saying you're crazy, but surely you can agree that if you were the only person in your town/city going around professing your belief in the supernatural, you'd be committed or at least dismissed as a loon. Why keep making excuses for God? If he really wants us to belief and worship his perfect ass, why doesn't he show himself? Why would that be a bad thing?

                                  Obama's plan gives me a $400 per year tax cut. McCain's plan gives me a $80 per year tax cut. Would rather be one of the lucky few to have taxes raised by Obama. (Someone on the Internet)

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                                  Matthew Faithfull
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #109

                                  Al Beback wrote:

                                  But you hear crazy people say the same things and we call them crazy. I'm not saying you're crazy, but surely you can agree that if you were the only person in your town/city going around professing your belief in the supernatural, you'd be committed or at least dismissed as a loon.

                                  Indeed, probably worse, many hundreds of people are killed every year for their Christian belief all over the world. In the old USSR they certianly were declared mad, drugged and imprisoned in many cases.

                                  Al Beback wrote:

                                  Why keep making excuses for God? If he really wants us to belief and worship his perfect ass, why doesn't he show himself? Why would that be a bad thing?

                                  :laugh: He has, what do think the New Testaement part of the Bible is all about. God has not only revealed himself to us and lived a perfect life among us, he has been punished for the things we have done wrong so that we can go free. He has satisfied his own perfect justice by paying its cost himself through his sacrificial death on our behalf. Now that our debt to his justice has been paid we can have a restored relationship with him and an eternal life with him. It not the he needs our worship, it's that we need to be in a restored worshipful relationship with him because that is what we were made for.

                                  "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                                  • M Matthew Faithfull

                                    Oakman wrote:

                                    Does He talk to you, Matthew?

                                    Yes.

                                    Oakman wrote:

                                    Does He tell you to embarrass Him by prattling on like this

                                    If you know he's embarrassed then he clearly talks to you. Or maybe someone else does because he's always rather keen on spreading the good news when he talks to me.

                                    "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                                    Oakman
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #110

                                    Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                    If you know he's embarrassed then he clearly talks to you. Or maybe someone else does because he's always rather keen on spreading the good news when he talks to me.

                                    Never said I knew it, but I can't imagine any self-respecting Master of the Universe* not being embaressed. *Grayskull!

                                    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                    • M Matthew Faithfull

                                      Please, the Pharaseas, the guardians of Jewish customs, practices and religeous laws, looked for every oppotunity to trap him, trip him up, kill him, as soon as his popularity amongst those they condemned as outcasts and sinners, mostly for being poor, became a threat to them. They accused him of breaking the sabbath, they famously accused him of blasphemy in front of the High Priest. You really are an odd fish for someone who claims to know his bible so much better then me.

                                      "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                                      Oakman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #111

                                      Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                      Please, the Pharaseas, the guardians of Jewish customs, practices and religeous laws, looked for every oppotunity to trap him, trip him up, kill him, as soon as his popularity amongst those they condemned as outcasts and sinners, mostly for being poor, became a threat to them.

                                      So you've switched from constantly to in the last stages of his ministry?

                                      Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                      You really are an odd fish for someone who claims to know his bible so much better then me.

                                      I even know how to spell Pharisee

                                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                      • O Oakman

                                        Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                        If you know he's embarrassed then he clearly talks to you. Or maybe someone else does because he's always rather keen on spreading the good news when he talks to me.

                                        Never said I knew it, but I can't imagine any self-respecting Master of the Universe* not being embaressed. *Grayskull!

                                        Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                        Matthew Faithfull
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #112

                                        I apologize for exceeding the limits of your imagination. I'll try not to do so again for a few days at least. :)

                                        "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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                                        • O Oakman

                                          Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                          Please, the Pharaseas, the guardians of Jewish customs, practices and religeous laws, looked for every oppotunity to trap him, trip him up, kill him, as soon as his popularity amongst those they condemned as outcasts and sinners, mostly for being poor, became a threat to them.

                                          So you've switched from constantly to in the last stages of his ministry?

                                          Matthew Faithfull wrote:

                                          You really are an odd fish for someone who claims to know his bible so much better then me.

                                          I even know how to spell Pharisee

                                          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                          Matthew Faithfull
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #113

                                          Oakman wrote:

                                          So you've switched from constantly to in the last stages of his ministry?

                                          No I've given you an example.

                                          Oakman wrote:

                                          I even know how to spell Pharisee

                                          Good, now go back to Gallilee and try not to get pushed off a cliff. ;P

                                          "The secret of happiness is freedom, and the secret of freedom, courage." Thucydides (B.C. 460-400)

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