What It Means To Be Christian
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Al Beback wrote:
No one is born believing in invisible wizards, just like no one is born believing in Santa Claus
You know this, right? Humans are not born with any mind at all? They have not made any attempt to understand or explain their environment at all? All of the research that suggest that a fetus is affected by and interacts with its environment is wrong? You have read, or divined, the truth in this matter and any further research or investigation into what a newborn thinks is a waste of time?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
You should ask some psychologist about these questions. Anyway, if you are bored I suggest you do your homework on children raised without contact with any civilization.
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
You should ask some psychologist about these questions. Anyway, if you are bored I suggest you do your homework on children raised without contact with any civilization.
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
dnh wrote:
You should ask these question some psychologist.
Perhaps English isn't your first language.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Yes, just one click on my profile and you could confirm that. And typing is not my first class communication tool either :O better now? :P
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
How dare he arrogantly presume that nobody is born with the instinctual knowledge of bearded men in robes casting hexes on people
If that's what you understood from what I wrote, perhaps you need to spend more time in grammar school and less on line, little boy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Well, dude, it seems that the concept of sarcasm is lost on you.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Oh my GOD you're incredibly boring!
Thats because you simply are not very mature intellectually. I bore my kids too.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
What you're doing is attempting to discredit Liberalism by associating it with Communism.
Yes, I am. Because that is what modern liberalism is all about.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
You're also making an incredibly dubious assumption that there are only two possible political motives in the world
No, I am asserting that there are only two well defined political alternatives to choose from. One which relies upon the empowerment of a central government to resolve economic and social problems, and one which devolves power down to the people at local level of goverment to resolve those same problems.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Thats because you simply are not very mature intellectually. I bore my kids too.
I think that my school counsellor would disagree with you there.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yes, I am. Because that is what modern liberalism is all about.
Hey, I've read The Communist Manifesto. Three times. I assure you, it is not synonymous with Liberalism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
No, I am asserting that there are only two well defined political alternatives to choose from. One which relies upon the empowerment of a central government to resolve economic and social problems, and one which devolves power down to the people at local level of goverment to resolve those same problems.
What about Anarchism? And you think Liberalism is determined to escalate the government to the status of GOD?
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Yes, just one click on my profile and you could confirm that. And typing is not my first class communication tool either :O better now? :P
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
Well, dude, it seems that the concept of sarcasm is lost on you.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Well, dude, it seems that the concept of sarcasm is lost on you
Is that what you were trying for? Definitely time for some remedial classes in English.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Is that what you were trying for? Definitely time for some remedial classes in English.
My English is better than your English. I'm also less of an arsehole than you are, so what DO you have going for you? It was obviously sarcasm.
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Oakman wrote:
Is that what you were trying for? Definitely time for some remedial classes in English.
My English is better than your English. I'm also less of an arsehole than you are, so what DO you have going for you? It was obviously sarcasm.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I'm also less of an a***hole than you are
You're less of everything than I am. Someday, if you try real hard, you may start fulfilling some of that potential your parents keep hoping you have, but I fear I won't live long enough to see it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I'm also less of an a***hole than you are
You're less of everything than I am. Someday, if you try real hard, you may start fulfilling some of that potential your parents keep hoping you have, but I fear I won't live long enough to see it.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
I don't have potential. I'm going to fail miserably and futilely, I already know it. I'm probably gonna get hit by a car or get cancer or something and I'll have been as pointless and irrelevant as anyone could possibly aspire to be and nobody will care because I was never popular or fun and could hardly even make eye contact.
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I don't have potential. I'm going to fail miserably and futilely, I already know it. I'm probably gonna get hit by a car or get cancer or something and I'll have been as pointless and irrelevant as anyone could possibly aspire to be and nobody will care because I was never popular or fun and could hardly even make eye contact.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I'm probably gonna get hit by a car or get cancer or something
You're gonna die. I am quite sure.
[My Blog]
"Visual studio desperately needs some performance improvements. It is sometimes almost as slow as eclipse." - Rüdiger Klaehn
"Real men use mspaint for writing code and notepad for designing graphics." - Anna-Jayne Metcalfe -
Al Beback wrote:
We're all born atheists.
No we're not...we are born not knowing. You choose to be an atheist.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
You choose to be an atheist.
Well not always, me, for instance. Attended Sunday School from about the age 6. Received instruction in the Church of England, but did not find God. Read: * The Bible - end to end. * Commentaries on the Bible. * Essays by chaps like C.S. Lewis, atheists who had found God. * Books on faith recommended by Christian colleagues. Went to church, attended recitals of religious music, prayed. Sat quietly in: churches, cathedrals, the countryside. But - no God. I married a Roman Catholic, and went through it all again (well, not Sunday School): different translation of the Bible, different instruction, different services - same result. A born atheist, you might say.
Bob Emmett
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I don't have potential. I'm going to fail miserably and futilely, I already know it. I'm probably gonna get hit by a car or get cancer or something and I'll have been as pointless and irrelevant as anyone could possibly aspire to be and nobody will care because I was never popular or fun and could hardly even make eye contact.
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I do not choose to be an atheist. I see no evidence for a god in the world around me so I cannot believe in a god. Without evidence that a god exists I can no more choose to believe that one exists than I can choose to believe that testicle-whales* exist on Jupiter. * - see a previous post. Long explanation!
Steve_Harris wrote:
I can no more choose to believe that one exists than I can choose to believe that testicle-whales* exist on Jupiter.
Correct. Belief is not a simple choice. Interestingly, it isn't a natural outcome of raw knowledge either. This forum is full of intelligent people who take what they see and hear as evidence of their belief. Two brothers raised in the same household, taught the same lessons, work the same jobs, read the same books... and take two very different views of the world. You hold that you do not belief due to lack of compelling evidence. I hold that my belief exists in spite of a lack of such evidence. You might argue that the evidence i see exists only when interpreted in the context of belief. I would argue then that without belief, all evidence is weak, that until you first believe, until your mind opens to the possibility, no amount of evidence will convince you.
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Thats because you simply are not very mature intellectually. I bore my kids too.
I think that my school counsellor would disagree with you there.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yes, I am. Because that is what modern liberalism is all about.
Hey, I've read The Communist Manifesto. Three times. I assure you, it is not synonymous with Liberalism.
Stan Shannon wrote:
No, I am asserting that there are only two well defined political alternatives to choose from. One which relies upon the empowerment of a central government to resolve economic and social problems, and one which devolves power down to the people at local level of goverment to resolve those same problems.
What about Anarchism? And you think Liberalism is determined to escalate the government to the status of GOD?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I think that my school counsellor would disagree with you there.
You probably aren't the first brainwashed little collectivist he has helped produce by just that technique - being patted on the head for regurgitating the appropriate political dogma.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Hey, I've read The Communist Manifesto.
That doesn't surprise me.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Three times. I assure you, it is not synonymous with Liberalism.
Yet, you've read the Communist Manifesto three times. I've never read it at all. Have you ever read the Federalist Papers?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
What about Anarchism?
Anarchism, by definition, cannot be 'well defined'.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
And you think Liberalism is determined to escalate the government to the status of GOD?
Not true liberalism, but the current collectivist philosophy calling itself liberalism is certainly trying to achieve that - heaven on earth.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Steve_Harris wrote:
I can no more choose to believe that one exists than I can choose to believe that testicle-whales* exist on Jupiter.
Correct. Belief is not a simple choice. Interestingly, it isn't a natural outcome of raw knowledge either. This forum is full of intelligent people who take what they see and hear as evidence of their belief. Two brothers raised in the same household, taught the same lessons, work the same jobs, read the same books... and take two very different views of the world. You hold that you do not belief due to lack of compelling evidence. I hold that my belief exists in spite of a lack of such evidence. You might argue that the evidence i see exists only when interpreted in the context of belief. I would argue then that without belief, all evidence is weak, that until you first believe, until your mind opens to the possibility, no amount of evidence will convince you.
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
Shog9 wrote:
I hold that my belief exists in spite of a lack of such evidence.
Why? What are the steps of deduction or thought processes that made you say to yourself "there is no evidence for a god so I'll believe in one anyway"? I simply cannot fathom the logic or doublethink or whatever it is that lets your brain contain such contradictory logic. Maybe our brains are wired up differently!
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Shog9 wrote:
I hold that my belief exists in spite of a lack of such evidence.
Why? What are the steps of deduction or thought processes that made you say to yourself "there is no evidence for a god so I'll believe in one anyway"? I simply cannot fathom the logic or doublethink or whatever it is that lets your brain contain such contradictory logic. Maybe our brains are wired up differently!
Steve_Harris wrote:
What are the steps of deduction or thought processes that made you say to yourself "there is no evidence for a god so I'll believe in one anyway"?
No, re-read that quote again - i believe in spite of what [fails to convince you|succeeds in discouraging you], not because of it. I no more choose to believe than you choose to disbelieve; my choice is to not struggle against belief. Any reasoning involved is inductive rather than deductive - based on the observations, experiences, and beliefs of myself and others rather than on a closed understanding of the world.
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Steve_Harris wrote:
What are the steps of deduction or thought processes that made you say to yourself "there is no evidence for a god so I'll believe in one anyway"?
No, re-read that quote again - i believe in spite of what [fails to convince you|succeeds in discouraging you], not because of it. I no more choose to believe than you choose to disbelieve; my choice is to not struggle against belief. Any reasoning involved is inductive rather than deductive - based on the observations, experiences, and beliefs of myself and others rather than on a closed understanding of the world.
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
Then our brains are wired up differently. I do not "struggle against belief". There is no evidence for a god so I do not believe. There is no evidence for Jovian testicle whales so I don't believe in them either! It requires no great effort, simply the application of logic to the available facts. If you can take the lack of evidence for the Christian god to be unconvincing enough to let you believe anyway, then belief in the existence of fairies and Santa and Thor and Neo and the Force is just around the corner.
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Then our brains are wired up differently. I do not "struggle against belief". There is no evidence for a god so I do not believe. There is no evidence for Jovian testicle whales so I don't believe in them either! It requires no great effort, simply the application of logic to the available facts. If you can take the lack of evidence for the Christian god to be unconvincing enough to let you believe anyway, then belief in the existence of fairies and Santa and Thor and Neo and the Force is just around the corner.
Steve_Harris wrote:
If you can take the lack of evidence for the Christian god to be unconvincing enough to let you believe anyway, then belief in the existence of fairies and Santa and Thor and Neo and the Force is just around the corner.
And yet, in spite of exposure to all of these ideas from a young age, i've never believed in the latter. ;) No matter; i see that we're back to where we started, and as hunger compels me to seek breakfast (believing that it will placate this hunger)... and ideally before i misspell seek "steak" again... I will leave the repetition of this argument for another evening.
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I'm going to fail miserably and futilely
I'm sure there's a Catholic priest near you who would just love to counsel a pubescent boy.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
That was a bit uncalled for, don't you think?