What It Means To Be Christian
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Stan Shannon wrote:
You probably aren't the first brainwashed little collectivist he has helped produce by just that technique - being patted on the head for regurgitating the appropriate political dogma.
We don't talk about politics at all.
Stan Shannon wrote:
That doesn't surprise me.
I've also read a University chemistry book. What's your point?
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yet, you've read the Communist Manifesto three times. I've never read it at all.
More specifically, I've written it out three times. It's quite short.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Have you ever read the Federalist Papers?
Nope.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Anarchism, by definition, cannot be 'well defined'.
Why not? "Remove government. Let chaos ensue." Seems simple enough.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Not true liberalism, but the current collectivist philosophy calling itself liberalism is certainly trying to achieve that - heaven on earth.
You sure like the word 'Collectivism'; fits in with the way you always group people together.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
We don't talk about politics at all.
yeah ya do.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I've also read a University chemistry book. What's your point?
What was yours?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
More specifically, I've written it out three times. It's quite short.
SO, let me get this straight. You're not merely reading the communist manifesto, you're actually writing it out? Why in the name of God would anyone be compelled to do that? Kid, you need to get out and ride your bike around more or somethng.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
You sure like the word 'Collectivism'; fits in with the way you always group people together.
And that comment fits in with the way collectivists dimiss legitimate criticism. I wonder where you learned it from? It is a meaningless statement, meant to distract attention away from the subject at hand. In fact, it is self contradictory: "I assign you to the group of people who group people together" Obviously, I'll have plenty of company!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
We don't talk about politics at all.
yeah ya do.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I've also read a University chemistry book. What's your point?
What was yours?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
More specifically, I've written it out three times. It's quite short.
SO, let me get this straight. You're not merely reading the communist manifesto, you're actually writing it out? Why in the name of God would anyone be compelled to do that? Kid, you need to get out and ride your bike around more or somethng.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
You sure like the word 'Collectivism'; fits in with the way you always group people together.
And that comment fits in with the way collectivists dimiss legitimate criticism. I wonder where you learned it from? It is a meaningless statement, meant to distract attention away from the subject at hand. In fact, it is self contradictory: "I assign you to the group of people who group people together" Obviously, I'll have plenty of company!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
yeah ya do.
I think I'd know.
Stan Shannon wrote:
What was yours?
Something relevant.
Stan Shannon wrote:
SO, let me get this straight. You're not merely reading the communist manifesto, you're actually writing it out? Why in the name of God would anyone be compelled to do that? Kid, you need to get out and ride your bike around more or somethng.
I was increasing my typing speed and accuracy. I was going to do 'Mein Kampf' as well, but it was too long. And I ride my bike sometimes too!
Stan Shannon wrote:
And that comment fits in with the way collectivists dimiss legitimate criticism. I wonder where you learned it from?
Haha, I am by no means a Collectivist. And I didn't 'learn' it from anywhere - turns out I'm capable of creative independent thought after all, even after all this deep-seated indoctrination.
Stan Shannon wrote:
In fact, it is self contradictory: "I assign you to the group of people who group people together" Obviously, I'll have plenty of company!
Obviously.
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
You choose to be an atheist.
Well not always, me, for instance. Attended Sunday School from about the age 6. Received instruction in the Church of England, but did not find God. Read: * The Bible - end to end. * Commentaries on the Bible. * Essays by chaps like C.S. Lewis, atheists who had found God. * Books on faith recommended by Christian colleagues. Went to church, attended recitals of religious music, prayed. Sat quietly in: churches, cathedrals, the countryside. But - no God. I married a Roman Catholic, and went through it all again (well, not Sunday School): different translation of the Bible, different instruction, different services - same result. A born atheist, you might say.
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
Attended Sunday School from about the age 6. Received instruction in the Church of England, but did not find God. Read: * The Bible - end to end. * Commentaries on the Bible. * Essays by chaps like C.S. Lewis, atheists who had found God. * Books on faith recommended by Christian colleagues. Went to church, attended recitals of religious music, prayed. Sat quietly in: churches, cathedrals, the countryside. But - no God. I married a Roman Catholic, and went through it all again (well, not Sunday School): different translation of the Bible, different instruction, different services - same result.
I find myself wondering why someone who knows himself to be an atheist would go to so much effort. :)
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
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Stan Shannon wrote:
yeah ya do.
I think I'd know.
Stan Shannon wrote:
What was yours?
Something relevant.
Stan Shannon wrote:
SO, let me get this straight. You're not merely reading the communist manifesto, you're actually writing it out? Why in the name of God would anyone be compelled to do that? Kid, you need to get out and ride your bike around more or somethng.
I was increasing my typing speed and accuracy. I was going to do 'Mein Kampf' as well, but it was too long. And I ride my bike sometimes too!
Stan Shannon wrote:
And that comment fits in with the way collectivists dimiss legitimate criticism. I wonder where you learned it from?
Haha, I am by no means a Collectivist. And I didn't 'learn' it from anywhere - turns out I'm capable of creative independent thought after all, even after all this deep-seated indoctrination.
Stan Shannon wrote:
In fact, it is self contradictory: "I assign you to the group of people who group people together" Obviously, I'll have plenty of company!
Obviously.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I think I'd know.
I doubt it.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Something relevant.
To what?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
was increasing my typing speed and accuracy. I was going to do 'Mein Kampf' as well, but it was too long. And I ride my bike sometimes too!
I see. The communist manifesto and Mein Kampf were just the most easily available material for you to do typing practice with.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
- turns out I'm capable of creative independent thought after all, even after all this deep-seated indoctrination.
Yet, isn't it amazing that your 'creative independent thought' is indistinquishable from all of the other creative independent free thinkers on the planet who also are not collectivist even though they promote an entirely collectivist world view. Quite the coincidence, eh? Indoctrination indeed!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I think I'd know.
I doubt it.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Something relevant.
To what?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
was increasing my typing speed and accuracy. I was going to do 'Mein Kampf' as well, but it was too long. And I ride my bike sometimes too!
I see. The communist manifesto and Mein Kampf were just the most easily available material for you to do typing practice with.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
- turns out I'm capable of creative independent thought after all, even after all this deep-seated indoctrination.
Yet, isn't it amazing that your 'creative independent thought' is indistinquishable from all of the other creative independent free thinkers on the planet who also are not collectivist even though they promote an entirely collectivist world view. Quite the coincidence, eh? Indoctrination indeed!
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I doubt it.
Yes, that's right, underpinning all the completely unrelated topics is persistent and subliminal suggestion subtly altering my political stance.
Stan Shannon wrote:
To what?
Everything.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I see. The communist manifesto and Mein Kampf were just the most easily available material for you to do typing practice with.
Well, War and Peace was much too long (plain text is over 3 megabytes). I'd already read Nineteen Eighty-Four and didn't feel like doing it again. I did most of Clairvoyance and Occult Powers, but it was too irritating. Someone got me Frankenstein at about this time, and I preferred reading it lying on the lush grass in my backyard (even though I got grass rash all on my arms and legs). Same goes for Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. So yeah...
Stan Shannon wrote:
Yet, isn't it amazing that your 'creative independent thought' is indistinquishable from all of the other creative independent free thinkers on the planet who also are not collectivist even though they promote an entirely collectivist world view. Quite the coincidence, eh? Indoctrination indeed!
If I was strongly indoctrinated, then why don't I care about politics?
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That was a bit uncalled for, don't you think?
I was being a dick. I deserved it.
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
I was being a dick. I deserved it.
In my mind's eye, it wasn't that bad a put down. If you think you 'deserved' it, I probably didn't think hard enough about how it was coming off.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Gary Kirkham wrote:
You choose to be an atheist.
No you don't choose, logic and experience forces you to that conclusion.
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Logic and experience teach me that there is no god. I cannot choose to believe in a god because logic and experience teach me there isn't one. To do otherwise would involve some sort of Orwellian doublethink.
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Bob Emmett wrote:
Attended Sunday School from about the age 6. Received instruction in the Church of England, but did not find God. Read: * The Bible - end to end. * Commentaries on the Bible. * Essays by chaps like C.S. Lewis, atheists who had found God. * Books on faith recommended by Christian colleagues. Went to church, attended recitals of religious music, prayed. Sat quietly in: churches, cathedrals, the countryside. But - no God. I married a Roman Catholic, and went through it all again (well, not Sunday School): different translation of the Bible, different instruction, different services - same result.
I find myself wondering why someone who knows himself to be an atheist would go to so much effort. :)
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
I do not know myself to be an atheist, merely a non-believer. As a child, and in adolescence, I attended church. I respected many of the adults I met and sought to emulate their belief. Hence the Bible Studies and prayer. But belief did not come. As for "going to so much effort", 40 years of eclectic reading, music, walking the countryside, visiting old buildings, the occasional church service, etc., have provided many opportunities for revelation, without my putting myself out in the least.
Bob Emmett
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Logic and experience teach me that there is no god. I cannot choose to believe in a god because logic and experience teach me there isn't one. To do otherwise would involve some sort of Orwellian doublethink.
You're not really choosing not to be believe in God, because you don't accept the arguments for Him. That is a result of not believing. You are, however, choosing not to believe the reasons that most people accept on why there is a God, while others choose to believe in them. When Andrew Wiles proved Fermat's Last Theorem, some people refused to believe he did it. Since the proof was extremely difficult, their reasoning was rational. His first iteration proved false, while his second one was found (by others)to be complete. After enough people confirmed it, everyone accepted it as proven even though less than a dozen people in the world could probably understand it.
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I do not know myself to be an atheist, merely a non-believer. As a child, and in adolescence, I attended church. I respected many of the adults I met and sought to emulate their belief. Hence the Bible Studies and prayer. But belief did not come. As for "going to so much effort", 40 years of eclectic reading, music, walking the countryside, visiting old buildings, the occasional church service, etc., have provided many opportunities for revelation, without my putting myself out in the least.
Bob Emmett
Bob Emmett wrote:
I do not know myself to be an atheist
I apologize, I guess I misunderstood what you meant in your other post when you said you were a "born atheist." I guess that in my view a non-believer isn't the same as an atheist.
Bob Emmett wrote:
I attended church. I respected many of the adults I met and sought to emulate their belief. Hence the Bible Studies and prayer.
I think that there are more than a few in churches that fit that description. They have studied their Bibles; maybe even have a PhD in Theology...they know a lot about God, but they don't know God. It's kind of like reading a biography about a famous man, when you have the opportunity to meet the man in person and get to know him intimately. I know of a local pastor over a very large congregation, who had been a pastor for 30 years, when he was saved at a revival service in his own church.
Bob Emmett wrote:
But belief did not come.
In your previous post you said, "but did not find God" and "But - no God." Are you equating those with "belief did not come?"
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
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Bob Emmett wrote:
I do not know myself to be an atheist
I apologize, I guess I misunderstood what you meant in your other post when you said you were a "born atheist." I guess that in my view a non-believer isn't the same as an atheist.
Bob Emmett wrote:
I attended church. I respected many of the adults I met and sought to emulate their belief. Hence the Bible Studies and prayer.
I think that there are more than a few in churches that fit that description. They have studied their Bibles; maybe even have a PhD in Theology...they know a lot about God, but they don't know God. It's kind of like reading a biography about a famous man, when you have the opportunity to meet the man in person and get to know him intimately. I know of a local pastor over a very large congregation, who had been a pastor for 30 years, when he was saved at a revival service in his own church.
Bob Emmett wrote:
But belief did not come.
In your previous post you said, "but did not find God" and "But - no God." Are you equating those with "belief did not come?"
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
when you said you were a "born atheist."
I was just picking up on Al's 'born atheist' line, and that, given my experience, I could be called such.
Gary Kirkham wrote:
in my view a non-believer isn't the same as an atheist
Good, we agree on that point. (Some don't.)
Gary Kirkham wrote:
In your previous post you said, "but did not find God" and "But - no God." Are you equating those with "belief did not come?"
Yes.
Bob Emmett