2 hours in line to vote
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I don't know if you've ever read ArsTechnica's coverage of the state of electronic voting in this country... but Jon Stokes has a long-running series of articles on the topic. Mail-in voting may be among the safer methods - why waste time intercepting physical envelopes / faking signatures when you can change the totals once in a database and be done with it?
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
Shog9 wrote:
why waste time intercepting physical envelopes / faking signatures when you can change the totals once in a database and be done with it?
Database manipulation requires a bit of knowledge and often leaves a trail - there are all kinds of ways extremely low tech people can affect the vote via mail (ballots undelivered to the voter, ballots lost on the way back to counting stations, ballots filled out by 3rd parties, etc...) and it's easy to keep the corrupt politicians / power brokers shielded from such activities.
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Rob Graham wrote:
That we don't suggests that there are powerful vested interests in failure...
I have to agree. It's puzzling to me that we've seen such a muted outcry over it... i can't help but think that, if the Democrats snag the presidential election and hold on to a majority in the House and Senate, we'll start to see more bi-partisan inquiries into the matter...
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
Shog9 wrote:
i can't help but think that, if the Democrats snag the presidential election and hold on to a majority in the House and Senate, we'll start to see more bi-partisan inquiries into the matter...
Errrr... why? Don't forget that Obama is a product of Chicago Democratic machine politics. Chicago and Cook county are 100% controlled by Democrats and have been forever. Voter fraud has been a way of life here for more than a century and shows no signs of letting up. In the 2000 presidential election there were more "spoiled ballots" in Cook county than "questionable / spoiled" ballots in the entire state of Florida and nobody batted an eye.
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Shog9 wrote:
why waste time intercepting physical envelopes / faking signatures when you can change the totals once in a database and be done with it?
Database manipulation requires a bit of knowledge and often leaves a trail - there are all kinds of ways extremely low tech people can affect the vote via mail (ballots undelivered to the voter, ballots lost on the way back to counting stations, ballots filled out by 3rd parties, etc...) and it's easy to keep the corrupt politicians / power brokers shielded from such activities.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Database manipulation requires a bit of knowledge and often leaves a trail
It should leave a trail. The better systems are set up this way: a physical record of the voter's actual choices (ink-on-paper), a physical record of what the machine read (paper tape), and the electronic record used in tabulation. We've had a bit of drama here in Colorado, since many of the machines that were in use weren't keeping any physical record - we've had huge numbers of early / mail-in voters in the past couple of elections for this very reason, since in some areas it was the only way to ensure your vote could be re-counted should that be necessary (assuming, of course, that it didn't disappear... but again, much more work involved in launching a concerted effort to alter votes). From what i can tell, Chicago is doing a better job...
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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Shog9 wrote:
i can't help but think that, if the Democrats snag the presidential election and hold on to a majority in the House and Senate, we'll start to see more bi-partisan inquiries into the matter...
Errrr... why? Don't forget that Obama is a product of Chicago Democratic machine politics. Chicago and Cook county are 100% controlled by Democrats and have been forever. Voter fraud has been a way of life here for more than a century and shows no signs of letting up. In the 2000 presidential election there were more "spoiled ballots" in Cook county than "questionable / spoiled" ballots in the entire state of Florida and nobody batted an eye.
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Don't forget that Obama is a product of Chicago Democratic machine politics. Chicago and Cook county are 100% controlled by Democrats and have been forever.
Exactly. Surely the Republicans will be keeping a sharp eye on his administration and any voting irregularities that might possibly be associated with it? Or am i being optimistic again... Expecting the foxes to keep the coyotes out of the hen house? :sigh:
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
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thrakazog wrote:
They mail out the ballots. You fill them out and drop them back in the mail.
How do they confirm who EXACTLY filled in the ballot? How do you confirm they received the ballot?
Mike Mullikin wrote:
How do they confirm who EXACTLY filled in the ballot?
Yeah, one guy may fill in his whole, dead, neighbourhoods ballots. Our 'backward', pencil cross ballot seems pretty secure. You prove who you are, get a ballot, get a UV mark, and cast your vote, in a booth in a public polling station.
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There was only one proposition on our ballet and I voted against it although I was very unsure what exactly the details were as this was the first I had heard about it.
John
In our state they send all registered voters information about these things. What's interesting is to look to see which groups are for or against the proposition - usually don't even have to see their arguments, just their affiliations.
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I stood 2 hours in line to vote (it normally 20 minutes tops) for the candidate that I am very confident will loose my state and most likely will loose the election as well. I am still happy I did that.
John
I got there just as the polls were opening and the line was out the door and around the building. It only took about 45 minutes to vote, which was quicker than I expected. I was the 208th person to vote at my precinct.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life. Me blog, You read
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Don't forget that Obama is a product of Chicago Democratic machine politics. Chicago and Cook county are 100% controlled by Democrats and have been forever.
Exactly. Surely the Republicans will be keeping a sharp eye on his administration and any voting irregularities that might possibly be associated with it? Or am i being optimistic again... Expecting the foxes to keep the coyotes out of the hen house? :sigh:
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You're right. These facts that you've laid out totally contradict the wild ramblings that I pulled off the back of cornflakes packets.
Shog9 wrote:
Or am i being optimistic again... Expecting the foxes to keep the coyotes out of the hen house?
The foxes WILL keep the coyotes out of the hen house, but they would have to post "guardians" INSIDE of the hen house to insure that no coyote entered (this duty would be shared by the members of the fox community).
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In our state they send all registered voters information about these things. What's interesting is to look to see which groups are for or against the proposition - usually don't even have to see their arguments, just their affiliations.
I don't believe they did that in my area. The first I saw of the proposition was when it was on the electronic voting machine.
John
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I stood 2 hours in line to vote (it normally 20 minutes tops) for the candidate that I am very confident will loose my state and most likely will loose the election as well. I am still happy I did that.
John
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2 hours! :wtf: I don't remember needing more than 5 minutes. Why is it so long to vote?
Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall?
20 minutes was the longest for me before today. Way more people than usual and the system of verifying that you are permitted to vote at that location is paperwork. All the names are in a card catalog style index cards. First your name must be found in a thousand or so. Then your ID or voter registration card gets matched. Then you sign the card and then someone else verifies your signature against a second 3 ring binder with all the names again and finally a third person shows you how to use the machine even if you already know how.. On top of that I do not believe the volunteers who ran the election were prepared for this volume of people. I have never seen that many people voting in the 18 years I have been able to vote.
John
modified on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 2:47 PM
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There was only one proposition on our ballet and I voted against it although I was very unsure what exactly the details were as this was the first I had heard about it.
John
What's the ballot prop? I haven't heard about it either and would like to do a bit of minimal research before voting in a few hours.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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What's the ballot prop? I haven't heard about it either and would like to do a bit of minimal research before voting in a few hours.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
For us it was something about replacing sewer lines. I did not read the whole possibly 500 word essay describing the thing. I do know that the EPA had for some reason ordered the city to replace most of the sewers for some reason and I am against that.
John
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20 minutes was the longest for me before today. Way more people than usual and the system of verifying that you are permitted to vote at that location is paperwork. All the names are in a card catalog style index cards. First your name must be found in a thousand or so. Then your ID or voter registration card gets matched. Then you sign the card and then someone else verifies your signature against a second 3 ring binder with all the names again and finally a third person shows you how to use the machine even if you already know how.. On top of that I do not believe the volunteers who ran the election were prepared for this volume of people. I have never seen that many people voting in the 18 years I have been able to vote.
John
modified on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 2:47 PM
Granted I'm in a fairly small town, but here you present your voter registration or ID, they look you up on a laptop to verify you, you sign, then you go to the machines. I can't imagine why people are stuck using a card catalog in this day and age.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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2 hours! :wtf: I don't remember needing more than 5 minutes. Why is it so long to vote?
Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall?
In some states, they have to vote for a gazillion other people (judges, sheriff, ... ) and vote on a number of different referendums.
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Granted I'm in a fairly small town, but here you present your voter registration or ID, they look you up on a laptop to verify you, you sign, then you go to the machines. I can't imagine why people are stuck using a card catalog in this day and age.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
I can't imagine why people are stuck using a card catalog in this day and age.
Me either. Nothing has changed in this respect in the last 18 years. We did get electronic voting machines 2 or 3 years ago though. So we don't have the old pull the leaver machines.
John
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For us it was something about replacing sewer lines. I did not read the whole possibly 500 word essay describing the thing. I do know that the EPA had for some reason ordered the city to replace most of the sewers for some reason and I am against that.
John
OK, local not statewide then I'd assume. OTOH the EPA's making the same nasty noises at the Greater Johnstown Sewer Authority because they were leaking badly and in some areas storm and sanitary systems were combined. I'd assume you've got the same problem in Pittsburgh. The last I'd read jtown was hoping to avoid direct EPA action by committing to digup and repair the lines at the same time the overlying street was repaved. Dunno if it ever went from 'we should do this' to 'we're spending money to do this' though.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
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20 minutes was the longest for me before today. Way more people than usual and the system of verifying that you are permitted to vote at that location is paperwork. All the names are in a card catalog style index cards. First your name must be found in a thousand or so. Then your ID or voter registration card gets matched. Then you sign the card and then someone else verifies your signature against a second 3 ring binder with all the names again and finally a third person shows you how to use the machine even if you already know how.. On top of that I do not believe the volunteers who ran the election were prepared for this volume of people. I have never seen that many people voting in the 18 years I have been able to vote.
John
modified on Tuesday, November 4, 2008 2:47 PM
BTW, I forgot to say. The 3 ring binder has the official signatures to match. I have no idea how they do that being that my signature is never the same and always an unreadable mess. But I guess that would be the consistent thing about my signature. :laugh:
John
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OK, local not statewide then I'd assume. OTOH the EPA's making the same nasty noises at the Greater Johnstown Sewer Authority because they were leaking badly and in some areas storm and sanitary systems were combined. I'd assume you've got the same problem in Pittsburgh. The last I'd read jtown was hoping to avoid direct EPA action by committing to digup and repair the lines at the same time the overlying street was repaved. Dunno if it ever went from 'we should do this' to 'we're spending money to do this' though.
Today's lesson is brought to you by the word "niggardly". Remember kids, don't attribute to racism what can be explained by Scandinavian language roots. -- Robert Royall
I remember that there were threats of fines if the city did not comply. The city could use the repaving (they do not spend very much money on neighborhood road upkeep anymore) but this is going to come at a huge expense and take many years.
John