Regime Change Revisited
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73Zeppelin wrote:
Hamas will never accept a ceasefire - they are committed to the destruction of the Israeli people along with the Palestinian people, it seems.
"Yuval Diskin, the current head of the Israeli security service Shin Bet, "told the Israeli cabinet [on 23 December] that Hamas is interested in continuing the truce, but wants to improve its terms." Diskin explained that Hamas was requesting two things: an end to the blockade, and an Israeli ceasefire on the West Bank. The cabinet – high with election fever and eager to appear tough – rejected these terms. The core of the situation has been starkly laid out by Ephraim Halevy, the former head of Mossad. He says that while Hamas militants – like much of the Israeli right-wing – dream of driving their opponents away, "they have recognised this ideological goal is not attainable and will not be in the foreseeable future." Instead, "they are ready and willing to see the establishment of a Palestinian state in the temporary borders of 1967." They are aware that this means they "will have to adopt a path that could lead them far from their original goals" – and towards a long-term peace based on compromise. The rejectionists on both sides – from Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran to Bibi Netanyahu of Israel – would then be marginalised. It is the only path that could yet end in peace but it is the Israeli government that refuses to choose it. Halevy explains: "Israel, for reasons of its own, did not want to turn the ceasefire into the start of a diplomatic process with Hamas." from http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21630.htm[^]
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
"Information clearing house"? You're joking. As far as I'm concerned, he makes this stuff up as bedtime stories for his children. He's accountable to noone: This web site is An independent media source. One person's effort to correct the distorted perceptions provided by commercial media. This web site is non-commercial (no advertising no pop-up windows) and funded by readers contributions. This web site grew out of my personal frustration and anger at the failure of traditional commercial media to inform the American public, especially as it relates to US foreign policy. A source of unreported (or under reported) news from around the globe. An effort to provide more depth and understanding to current issues. This web site is the work of one person. I am a private individual. I am not affiliated with any particular political party. I am not funded by any group. I pay for all services associated with this site from my personal funds and readers' donations. I am not independently wealthy. I work and live in Southern California.
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Yes by all means lets have a discussion about the tactics of the brutal slaughter of a captive half starved population. There are 1.5 million people trapped in area smaller than the isle of white but lets just ignore that and treat it as a fair and reasonable fight. So we'd better not mention the use of jet fighters and tanks of one of the most powerful militaries in the world attacking built up civilian areas. I mean as long as we ignore the massive differences and argue that the gang of half wits with rockets that are so sophisticated they can't even deliberately target anything are a massive military force capable of actually threatening isreal They say that the true test of any civilisation is in how it reacts to adversity. Isreal has shown itself to be a collection of barbarians.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
Yes by all means lets have a discussion about the tactics of the brutal slaughter of a captive half starved population.
Indeed. So who are you talking about? The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive: the leaders appear to have no trouble at all in decamping to Damascus at the first sign of trouble. Starved? So it's okay to smuggle in Iranian built rockets but not food or medicine? Brutal slaughter? I don't think so: it is the choice of Hamas to place rocket launching sites and armouries inside population centers rather than in land that is not overly populated like most of the farm land at the peripheray of the strip. I don't recall you moaning when innocent Israelis were being blown up by suicide bombers or rocketrs launched from Gaza.
pseudonym67 wrote:
They say that the true test of any civilisation is in how it reacts to adversity.
Apart from the fact that is not the correct quote lets just test how Hamas reacted to adversity. Oh yes, most of the leaders left the population to suffer whilst they escaped to Syria.
pseudonym67 wrote:
Isreal has shown itself to be a collection of barbarians.
And what have Hamas and the Palestinians shown themselves to be by indiscriminately launching rockets across the border for years? You think Israel should just sit back and allow it to keep going on? Or make peace with people that don't want peace? They just want to eradicate Israel. I don't see Egypt steping in with any aid or opening its borders. The only aid is Israeli and, as reported by al jazeera news this morning, it only stopped because there was no where to store it as Hamas would not distribute it to the people. Israel are barabarians? No, they are fighting them.
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"Information clearing house"? You're joking. As far as I'm concerned, he makes this stuff up as bedtime stories for his children. He's accountable to noone: This web site is An independent media source. One person's effort to correct the distorted perceptions provided by commercial media. This web site is non-commercial (no advertising no pop-up windows) and funded by readers contributions. This web site grew out of my personal frustration and anger at the failure of traditional commercial media to inform the American public, especially as it relates to US foreign policy. A source of unreported (or under reported) news from around the globe. An effort to provide more depth and understanding to current issues. This web site is the work of one person. I am a private individual. I am not affiliated with any particular political party. I am not funded by any group. I pay for all services associated with this site from my personal funds and readers' donations. I am not independently wealthy. I work and live in Southern California.
OH MY GOD !!!!!!! SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION TO MINE !!!!!!! QUICK RUBBISH THE SOURCE!!!!! Information clearing house merely provides a collection of already published elsewhere articles and clearly states where those articles were published.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
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OH MY GOD !!!!!!! SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION TO MINE !!!!!!! QUICK RUBBISH THE SOURCE!!!!! Information clearing house merely provides a collection of already published elsewhere articles and clearly states where those articles were published.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
Oh, well then. Did you know Obama's election was the result of Hyperdimensionality? It's all explained on this website[^]! They also talk about the giant, artificially created diamonds orbiting the Earth, if you're interested. :rolleyes: The problem is not solely Israel, it's also Hamas (they're the ones firing the rockets if you forgot). Thus to criticise one side more than the other is useless. Both sides have to come to an agreement. The problem is that the Palestinian leadership is useless and they are using the population as guinea-pigs in their futile quest to destroy Israel. Hamas has to accept the existence of Israel and Israel has to pull back to the 1967 borders. Both sides have to make an effort. Lobbing rockets into Israel and undertaking large-scale military operations benefit nobody.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Calls for ceasefire have already been made and rejected by both sides. But there will come a time when both sides would have had enough of fighting.
Hamas will never accept a ceasefire - they are committed to the destruction of the Israeli people along with the Palestinian people, it seems. The Arab states need to step in and reign in Hamas while the U.S. needs to reign in Israel. The Palestinian people themselves are caught up in a proxy war, essentially. Clearly the two sides are not capable of working things out themselves, but more pressure needs to be put on Hamas to accept some kind of solution that doesn't involve the destruction of Israel. Clearly the Israeli's are trying to weaken Hamas, but are doing so at the cost of their own reputation It may work in the short-term, but in the long-term, the Israeli's aren't helping their case.
Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. They both cannot occupy the same real estate. As I stated, Israel has a right to exist. If only Iran and Syria could be persuaded to accept that premise then Hamas will accept that dictated position from their paymasters. So I rather think that Iran and Syria are the key to solving this problem.
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pseudonym67 wrote:
Yes by all means lets have a discussion about the tactics of the brutal slaughter of a captive half starved population.
Indeed. So who are you talking about? The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive: the leaders appear to have no trouble at all in decamping to Damascus at the first sign of trouble. Starved? So it's okay to smuggle in Iranian built rockets but not food or medicine? Brutal slaughter? I don't think so: it is the choice of Hamas to place rocket launching sites and armouries inside population centers rather than in land that is not overly populated like most of the farm land at the peripheray of the strip. I don't recall you moaning when innocent Israelis were being blown up by suicide bombers or rocketrs launched from Gaza.
pseudonym67 wrote:
They say that the true test of any civilisation is in how it reacts to adversity.
Apart from the fact that is not the correct quote lets just test how Hamas reacted to adversity. Oh yes, most of the leaders left the population to suffer whilst they escaped to Syria.
pseudonym67 wrote:
Isreal has shown itself to be a collection of barbarians.
And what have Hamas and the Palestinians shown themselves to be by indiscriminately launching rockets across the border for years? You think Israel should just sit back and allow it to keep going on? Or make peace with people that don't want peace? They just want to eradicate Israel. I don't see Egypt steping in with any aid or opening its borders. The only aid is Israeli and, as reported by al jazeera news this morning, it only stopped because there was no where to store it as Hamas would not distribute it to the people. Israel are barabarians? No, they are fighting them.
digital man wrote:
The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive:
digital man wrote:
Starved?
"the Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything out. They let in a small trickle of food, fuel and medicine – but not enough for survival. Weisglass quipped that the Gazans were being "put on a diet". According to Oxfam, only 137 trucks of food were allowed into Gaza last month to feed 1.5 million people. The United Nations says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food." http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-true-story-behind-this-war-is-not-the-one-israel-is-telling-1214981.html[^]
digital man wrote:
Brutal slaughter?
"As Israeli warplanes continue to bomb Gaza, attention is turning to the role of American-made weapons in the deadly attacks, which have now killed over 400 and wounded 2000, including many civilians." http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CNN_U.S._weapons_create_Gaza_civilian_0102.html[^]
digital man wrote:
Apart from the fact that is not the correct quote
whos quoting?
digital man wrote:
make peace with people that don't want peace? They just want to eradicate Israel.
we should remember that last week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable comp
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Yes by all means lets have a discussion about the tactics of the brutal slaughter of a captive half starved population. There are 1.5 million people trapped in area smaller than the isle of white but lets just ignore that and treat it as a fair and reasonable fight. So we'd better not mention the use of jet fighters and tanks of one of the most powerful militaries in the world attacking built up civilian areas. I mean as long as we ignore the massive differences and argue that the gang of half wits with rockets that are so sophisticated they can't even deliberately target anything are a massive military force capable of actually threatening isreal They say that the true test of any civilisation is in how it reacts to adversity. Isreal has shown itself to be a collection of barbarians.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
I mean as long as we ignore the massive differences and argue that the gang of half wits with rockets that are so sophisticated they can't even deliberately target anything are a massive military force capable of actually threatening isreal
Dude, how does a person become as incredible fucking stupid as you are? It is altogether a good thing that the difference exist. The forces behind this Islamic violence are evil. The only reason they have any hope of success at all is exclusively because of the bewilderingly inexplicable level of hopeless, babbling, drooling idiocy people like you demonstrate. The Israelies are the good guys - thank God they have superior weaponry!!!!!! There is absolutely no difference what so ever in Israel defending itself today and Britain defending itself in 1940. It is the very same fight, for the very same cause you fucking dolt.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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"Information clearing house"? You're joking. As far as I'm concerned, he makes this stuff up as bedtime stories for his children. He's accountable to noone: This web site is An independent media source. One person's effort to correct the distorted perceptions provided by commercial media. This web site is non-commercial (no advertising no pop-up windows) and funded by readers contributions. This web site grew out of my personal frustration and anger at the failure of traditional commercial media to inform the American public, especially as it relates to US foreign policy. A source of unreported (or under reported) news from around the globe. An effort to provide more depth and understanding to current issues. This web site is the work of one person. I am a private individual. I am not affiliated with any particular political party. I am not funded by any group. I pay for all services associated with this site from my personal funds and readers' donations. I am not independently wealthy. I work and live in Southern California.
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Yes by all means lets have a discussion about the tactics of the brutal slaughter of a captive half starved population. There are 1.5 million people trapped in area smaller than the isle of white but lets just ignore that and treat it as a fair and reasonable fight. So we'd better not mention the use of jet fighters and tanks of one of the most powerful militaries in the world attacking built up civilian areas. I mean as long as we ignore the massive differences and argue that the gang of half wits with rockets that are so sophisticated they can't even deliberately target anything are a massive military force capable of actually threatening isreal They say that the true test of any civilisation is in how it reacts to adversity. Isreal has shown itself to be a collection of barbarians.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
pseudonym67 wrote:
Yes by all means lets have a discussion about the tactics of the brutal slaughter of a captive half starved population
Is that the best you can do? Can't you slip in a few more buzzwords? Here's a clue: Israel and the Palestinian Authority were working hand in glove regarding the Gaza strip. The population was neither half-starved, nor captive of anything except their own dreams of being able to move into the cities and towns built by the Israelis, wash the blood off the walls and live happily ever after - so they voted a known terrorist organization into power. Israel reacted by cutting off all commerce with the Gaza strip. (How terribly, horribly, self protective of them!) Hamas decided this would be a good time to massacre, and imprison the members of the Palestinian Authority who were members of the government or simply lived and worked in Gaza. The Egyptians took one look at the mess that Hamas was creating and built a wall reminiscent of the one built in Berlin by the old East German regime. The basic response of most Egyptians to the plight of their Arab brothers is "Fuck 'em, let em starve in the cold and dark."
pseudonym67 wrote:
the gang of half wits with rockets that are so sophisticated they can't even deliberately target anything are a massive military force capable of actually threatening Israel
Of course they aren't. But they are capable of killing a few with rockets and more with suicide bombs. As someone else pointed out they like to target Israelis who are guilty of going to a market or drinking a cup of coffee, or Israeli kids who are guilty of going to school on a school bus.
pseudonym67 wrote:
They say that the true test of any civilisation is in how it reacts to adversity.
Sounds like you are quoting someone. The closest I could find was Ralph Waldo Emerson who said ""The true test of civilization is not the census, nor the size of cities, nor the crops, but the kind of man that the country turns out." Since you've called Hamas a bunch of half-wits, I'm pretty sure you don't agree with this. Perhaps you could provide a citation - unless, of course, you were just making it up and hiding behind an appeal to a non-existent authority.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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OH MY GOD !!!!!!! SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT OPINION TO MINE !!!!!!! QUICK RUBBISH THE SOURCE!!!!! Information clearing house merely provides a collection of already published elsewhere articles and clearly states where those articles were published.
pseudonym67 My Articles[^] Beginning KDevelop Programming[^]
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digital man wrote:
The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive:
digital man wrote:
Starved?
"the Israeli government reacted by punishing the entire civilian population. It announced that it was blockading the Gaza Strip in order to "pressure" its people to reverse the democratic process. The Israelis surrounded the Strip and refused to let anyone or anything out. They let in a small trickle of food, fuel and medicine – but not enough for survival. Weisglass quipped that the Gazans were being "put on a diet". According to Oxfam, only 137 trucks of food were allowed into Gaza last month to feed 1.5 million people. The United Nations says poverty has reached an "unprecedented level." When I was last in besieged Gaza, I saw hospitals turning away the sick because their machinery and medicine was running out. I met hungry children stumbling around the streets, scavenging for food." http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/johann-hari/johann-hari-the-true-story-behind-this-war-is-not-the-one-israel-is-telling-1214981.html[^]
digital man wrote:
Brutal slaughter?
"As Israeli warplanes continue to bomb Gaza, attention is turning to the role of American-made weapons in the deadly attacks, which have now killed over 400 and wounded 2000, including many civilians." http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CNN_U.S._weapons_create_Gaza_civilian_0102.html[^]
digital man wrote:
Apart from the fact that is not the correct quote
whos quoting?
digital man wrote:
make peace with people that don't want peace? They just want to eradicate Israel.
we should remember that last week, Hamas offered a ceasefire in return for basic and achievable comp
Your first quote/article is opinion, not reported fact. Still, you ignore the fact that they cam smuggle in weapons but not food or medicine. What a surprise. A brutal slaughter this is not. 80% of thsoe killed are Hamas fighters. 100% of the people that Hamas have killed with rockets have been civilians. And, finally, your final paragraph is, again, opinion presnetd as disjointed facts by a newspaper. The fact is that Hamas will never make peace with Israel unless forced to do so. Israel has repeatedly given the Palestinians what they want and each time have been rewarded with further demands. Just how far would you advise they go before taking any action?
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The New York Times posted an interested article[^], suggesting that the real goal of the Gaza invasion is to remove Hamas from power. I think they make a strong case. The problem is that I don't think Hamas has a clear and centralized power structure which raises the possibility that this incursion could continue on for some time. It's clear that the Israeli's don't have much support for a lengthy invasion; already there are calls for a ceasefire. Is it possible for Israel to achieve such a goal in a short period of time? And, if not, then what is the point of the ground invasion if not regime change?
73Zeppelin wrote:
he problem is that I don't think Hamas has a clear and centralized power structure
They don't, they're nothing more than armed thugs. Their hold on Gaza is also unlawful because they took it over by force and completely decimated any presence Fatah has there (another bunch of thugs but they're a bit better) and not only that, they've completely castrated the police force. There's a special circle in hades for them.
73Zeppelin wrote:
which raises the possibility that this incursion could continue on for some time.
Correct, it is my opinion that Israel is doing the exact same thing Hamas was doing, simply causing terror. Of the hundreds killed how many where militants? A pathetic percentage I can assure you. "Precision" half-ton bombs don't work on warrens that are densely populated and this is compounded by Hamas' cowardice. Then again, Israel is using a cannon to kill a mosquito, and being extremely overkill, its the poor civilians who are getting the shit end of the stick.
73Zeppelin wrote:
It's clear that the Israeli's don't have much support for a lengthy invasion; already there are calls for a ceasefire.
Completely impotent bearing in mind that not one superpower is willing to lift a finger and because of the USA's track record of protecting Israel's policies. That's not saying that Americans are bad, its just saying that their foreign policies have historically advocated their quiet support of Israel's actions by simply not demanding/ordering them to stop. There are many exceptions such as George Bush (the father not the dunce) and Clinton. A cease-fire will not happen until one of two things occur, a Super power steps in and says enough is enough or the world becomes supremely outraged at the humanitarian catastrophes and the massacres. Then Israel will seem like its bowing down to the will of the rest like a democratic nation.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Is it possible for Israel to achieve such a goal in a short period of time?
Nope. Decapitation would require a concerted effort by clandestine operatives performing surgical attacks at very specific individuals hiding out in Syria, Gaza and Ramallah. I don't see this happening nor do I think I will see this happening because the intent is to try and make the Palestinian people cower in terror
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73Zeppelin wrote:
he problem is that I don't think Hamas has a clear and centralized power structure
They don't, they're nothing more than armed thugs. Their hold on Gaza is also unlawful because they took it over by force and completely decimated any presence Fatah has there (another bunch of thugs but they're a bit better) and not only that, they've completely castrated the police force. There's a special circle in hades for them.
73Zeppelin wrote:
which raises the possibility that this incursion could continue on for some time.
Correct, it is my opinion that Israel is doing the exact same thing Hamas was doing, simply causing terror. Of the hundreds killed how many where militants? A pathetic percentage I can assure you. "Precision" half-ton bombs don't work on warrens that are densely populated and this is compounded by Hamas' cowardice. Then again, Israel is using a cannon to kill a mosquito, and being extremely overkill, its the poor civilians who are getting the shit end of the stick.
73Zeppelin wrote:
It's clear that the Israeli's don't have much support for a lengthy invasion; already there are calls for a ceasefire.
Completely impotent bearing in mind that not one superpower is willing to lift a finger and because of the USA's track record of protecting Israel's policies. That's not saying that Americans are bad, its just saying that their foreign policies have historically advocated their quiet support of Israel's actions by simply not demanding/ordering them to stop. There are many exceptions such as George Bush (the father not the dunce) and Clinton. A cease-fire will not happen until one of two things occur, a Super power steps in and says enough is enough or the world becomes supremely outraged at the humanitarian catastrophes and the massacres. Then Israel will seem like its bowing down to the will of the rest like a democratic nation.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Is it possible for Israel to achieve such a goal in a short period of time?
Nope. Decapitation would require a concerted effort by clandestine operatives performing surgical attacks at very specific individuals hiding out in Syria, Gaza and Ramallah. I don't see this happening nor do I think I will see this happening because the intent is to try and make the Palestinian people cower in terror
I agree with what you say.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Sure this will happen for some time, and then hate becomes rampant again and this cycle will start all over again.
I think this is exactly right and thus why I believe the Israeli invasion of Gaza is misguided. It will just serve to push the peace process that much further back. Both sides need to be soundly condemned by Arab leaders and the U.S. The people are just caught in the middle. I think it would help if Iran were to get invovled (and possibly Syria). They are to Hamas what the U.S. is to Israel.
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I agree with what you say.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Sure this will happen for some time, and then hate becomes rampant again and this cycle will start all over again.
I think this is exactly right and thus why I believe the Israeli invasion of Gaza is misguided. It will just serve to push the peace process that much further back. Both sides need to be soundly condemned by Arab leaders and the U.S. The people are just caught in the middle. I think it would help if Iran were to get invovled (and possibly Syria). They are to Hamas what the U.S. is to Israel.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I think it would help if Iran were to get invovled (and possibly Syria).
Actually, the only thing that would help is if Iran and Syria were rendered incapable of any involvment of any kind any where.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist. They both cannot occupy the same real estate. As I stated, Israel has a right to exist. If only Iran and Syria could be persuaded to accept that premise then Hamas will accept that dictated position from their paymasters. So I rather think that Iran and Syria are the key to solving this problem.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Israel has a right to exist. Palestine has a right to exist.
Certainly.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
If only Iran and Syria could be persuaded to accept that premise then Hamas will accept that dictated position from their paymasters.
Though I doubt that Hamas gets paid by Iran (Sunni-Shi'ite clash) if Iran (Syria being Iran's bitch which in fact does help in paying Hizbullah which is a Shi'ite militant group) where to lean on Hamas, they'd stop.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I think it would help if Iran were to get invovled (and possibly Syria).
Actually, the only thing that would help is if Iran and Syria were rendered incapable of any involvment of any kind any where.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Iran is Shi'ite and Syria's ruling faction is Alawite (spelling?) which is a denomination of the Shi'ite sect, its very doubtful if Hamas is being funded by either. Hizbullah on the other hand is.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I think it would help if Iran were to get invovled (and possibly Syria).
Actually, the only thing that would help is if Iran and Syria were rendered incapable of any involvment of any kind any where.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Actually, the only thing that would help is if Iran and Syria were rendered incapable of any involvment of any kind any where.
But that's not realistic, so the only alternative is to involve them in the process.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
I think it would help if Iran were to get invovled (and possibly Syria).
Actually, the only thing that would help is if Iran and Syria were rendered incapable of any involvment of any kind any where.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Uh, that was pretty much my point. I think you missed it. The whole point of the thread was to question Israel's tactics - the longer this goes on, the more unpopular they will be. I just wonder where the other Arab states are - the ones that should be putting pressure on Hamas to accept some kind of agreement so that the Palestinian people can stop being caught in the fighting between Israel and Hamas. I talked more about it in my reply to Richard, here[^].
73Zeppelin wrote:
the longer this goes on, the more unpopular they will be.
where? I thoroughly applaud them athough I find it curious that they waited so long.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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73Zeppelin wrote:
the longer this goes on, the more unpopular they will be.
where? I thoroughly applaud them athough I find it curious that they waited so long.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
where? I thoroughly applaud them athough I find it curious that they waited so long.
Pretty much the world. Although the U.S. still supports them, I'm not sure they can sustain support long enough for them to finish whatever the goals of their current campaign may be. The other problem is that the more civilians you kill, the more young kids grow up to continue the legacy of Hamas. So while you may have subdued the problem short-term, you just created a future generation of Hamas supporters. Not a very good way to achieve long-term peace.