Regime Change Revisited
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73Zeppelin wrote:
It will just serve to push the peace process that much further back.
To the starting point or even before. You can't have peace or peace-talks until both sides have calmed down and I don't mean calmed down to the point they're not throwing everything short of nukes at each other; I mean calm as in willing to listen.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Both sides need to be soundly condemned by Arab leaders and the U.S.
Israel would simply shrug off any condemnation by any Arab state because even though it has peace with two of them, it effectively considers "Arabs" as enemy. The US on the other hand can easily lean on Israel, but I doubt the current administration, yes Dubya, I'm talking about you, will lift a finger to do anything because in my opinion it has proved its incompetence and impotence a thousandfold particularly when it come to foreign policy and especially the Middle East.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I think it would help if Iran were to get invovled (and possibly Syria). They are to Hamas what the U.S. is to Israel.
Again, Though Iran uses vernacular that supports the Palestinian militant groups and yes it does occasionally send aid to the Palestinians, it won't actively fund a Sunni group like Hamas (Syria in extension as well since the ruling party is Alawite (spelling) which is a Shi'ite denomination) unlike Hizbollah which is actively funded with millions from both Syria and Iran.
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Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
but I doubt the current administration, yes Dubya, I'm talking about you, will lift a finger to do anything
With a new US President due to take office soon, with new policies and so on. I've not read any of Obama's policies regarding Israel or Palestine so I wonder if what Israel are doing now, which has the support of the present US Administration may change somewhat with a new installed US President. Is this good enough reason - the unknown - why this Israeli action is happening now as it may be difficult to do same under a new Administration. Regarding Iran and Syria, I got the impression during those Presidential debates that Obama is more willing to talk and listen. This stance might become a worry to Israel.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Iran is Shi'ite and Syria's ruling faction is Alawite (spelling?) which is a denomination of the Shi'ite sect, its very doubtful if Hamas is being funded by either. Hizbullah on the other hand is.
Than removing them would help resolve who is doing the funding. If you remove all possible middle eastern sources of funding, than you are left with an indisputable internatoinal, non-Islamic source of funding, which could be handled without involving the people of the middle east at all.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Yes, but you propose to do that by force which would simply create another circle of hatred and another cycle of radicalism and so on.
Stan Shannon wrote:
which could be handled without involving the people of the middle east at all.
Interesting. I'm reminded of how the US was funding Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda during the proxy war with Afghanistan, do you propose a similar tactic? I should hope not. Its been almost 8 years and NOTHING has been accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan other than death and fueling [a lot more] hatred and calls to radicalism. Some solution.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
where? I thoroughly applaud them athough I find it curious that they waited so long.
Pretty much the world. Although the U.S. still supports them, I'm not sure they can sustain support long enough for them to finish whatever the goals of their current campaign may be. The other problem is that the more civilians you kill, the more young kids grow up to continue the legacy of Hamas. So while you may have subdued the problem short-term, you just created a future generation of Hamas supporters. Not a very good way to achieve long-term peace.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
taken down as easily as Iraq
Yeah, we all know how well that worked out... :rolleyes: When a country lacks a centralized and clearly-defined leadership you get anarchy: Iraq, Palestine, etc... Deposing the governments of Iran and/or Syria will result in the same thing. It will also result in the people of two more countries hating the western world. I fail to see the logic in your "plan". Alternatively, you could engage them politically and economically and probably improve relations, Middle-east stability and cooperation on Iraeal-Palestine and Iraq.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Yeah, we all know how well that worked out...
That wasn't the fault of the invasion force, but the idiots in the Bush administration. Iraq's regime change could have been accomplished long before Iran could slip enough forces into the country, if there had been an all out commitment to boots on the ground.
73Zeppelin wrote:
When a country lacks a centralized and clearly-defined leadership you get anarchy: Iraq, Palestine, etc...
Or you get Germany, and Japan. The difference, I think, is that Germany and Japan were defeated, knew they were defeated, and had no allies to send them men or machines. Whether or not we can ever reproduce those circumstances in the Middle East is, of course, debatable. But the concept that nothing is accomplished by force is given the lie by history - as the Georgians or the Tibetans (or the Uighur), if you don't believe me. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
but I doubt the current administration, yes Dubya, I'm talking about you, will lift a finger to do anything
With a new US President due to take office soon, with new policies and so on. I've not read any of Obama's policies regarding Israel or Palestine so I wonder if what Israel are doing now, which has the support of the present US Administration may change somewhat with a new installed US President. Is this good enough reason - the unknown - why this Israeli action is happening now as it may be difficult to do same under a new Administration. Regarding Iran and Syria, I got the impression during those Presidential debates that Obama is more willing to talk and listen. This stance might become a worry to Israel.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Is this good enough reason - the unknown - why this Israeli action is happening now as it may be difficult to do same under a new Administration.
I would hazard a guess yes. Don't forget that Israel's single biggest supporter is the US, whether its arms, money, bailouts or political pressure, even the UN, the US has used its right to Veto for Israel a great many number of times. I hope that the new administration is willing to roll-up its sleeves and break heads on both sides of the table to get them to actually work together.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Regarding Iran and Syria, I got the impression during those Presidential debates that Obama is more willing to talk and listen. This stance might become a worry to Israel.
I would hazard another guess that what you are saying is completely correct. Dubya's reign as President was not marked as one of patience and reasoning.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
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73Zeppelin wrote:
The other problem is that the more civilians you kill, the more young kids grow up to continue the legacy of Hamas.
Not necessarily. Ask the Germans or Japanese.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
Not necessarily. Ask the Germans or Japanese.
Good point, but I think the difference is that both the Germans and the Japanese were ruled by (basically) dictatorships. The Palestinians have no clear leadership. I don't know about Japan, but the Nazi legacy still lives on.
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Yes, but you propose to do that by force which would simply create another circle of hatred and another cycle of radicalism and so on.
Stan Shannon wrote:
which could be handled without involving the people of the middle east at all.
Interesting. I'm reminded of how the US was funding Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda during the proxy war with Afghanistan, do you propose a similar tactic? I should hope not. Its been almost 8 years and NOTHING has been accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan other than death and fueling [a lot more] hatred and calls to radicalism. Some solution.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I'm reminded of how the US was funding Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda during the proxy war with Afghanistan, do you propose a similar tactic? I should hope not. Its been almost 8 years and NOTHING has been accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan other than death and fueling [a lot more] hatred and calls to radicalism.
Which makes the point precisely. When we try to help Islam defend itself from foriegn threats we start another cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence when we try to contend with the radicalismhatredandviolence we start another cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence is self sustaining and exists due to no external cause what so ever. There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it or to in any way affect it, and any attempt to do so just empowers those at the center of that cycle. No, it is time to simply kill it by any means necessary. Muslims are not supermen, sooner or later they will get the point that the rest of the world simply is no longer going to tolerate their bullshit.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I'm reminded of how the US was funding Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda during the proxy war with Afghanistan, do you propose a similar tactic? I should hope not. Its been almost 8 years and NOTHING has been accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan other than death and fueling [a lot more] hatred and calls to radicalism.
Which makes the point precisely. When we try to help Islam defend itself from foriegn threats we start another cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence when we try to contend with the radicalismhatredandviolence we start another cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence is self sustaining and exists due to no external cause what so ever. There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it or to in any way affect it, and any attempt to do so just empowers those at the center of that cycle. No, it is time to simply kill it by any means necessary. Muslims are not supermen, sooner or later they will get the point that the rest of the world simply is no longer going to tolerate their bullshit.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
The radical are small in number compares to the overwhelming numbers of peaceful moderates. But those radicals are often found occupying prominent positions be it by religious position, national and local politicals, trans-nation politicals. The moderates do not necessarily put these radicals into positions of power but maybe unable, for a variety of reasons, unable to effect either their isolation or removal from power. You must not tar with the same brush the moderates and peace lovers
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Oakman wrote:
Not necessarily. Ask the Germans or Japanese.
Good point, but I think the difference is that both the Germans and the Japanese were ruled by (basically) dictatorships. The Palestinians have no clear leadership. I don't know about Japan, but the Nazi legacy still lives on.
73Zeppelin wrote:
Good point, but I think the difference is that both the Germans and the Japanese were ruled by (basically) dictatorships. The Palestinians have no clear leadership.
They did have at one point. Had Yasser Arafat been half the administrator that he was a tactician, Hamas would never have broken away.
73Zeppelin wrote:
I don't know about Japan, but the Nazi legacy still lives on.
There are die-hards in Japan. There are even Manga series out set in an alternative timeline where Japan won WWII. But there are die-hards here in South Carolina who are sure the South will rise again - and then there's Stan. He, too, writes of an alternate timeline.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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The radical are small in number compares to the overwhelming numbers of peaceful moderates. But those radicals are often found occupying prominent positions be it by religious position, national and local politicals, trans-nation politicals. The moderates do not necessarily put these radicals into positions of power but maybe unable, for a variety of reasons, unable to effect either their isolation or removal from power. You must not tar with the same brush the moderates and peace lovers
Richard, that has always been and contiues to be the most intellectualy vapid and inherently meaningless observation a human being could possibly make.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I'm reminded of how the US was funding Osama bin Laden and his Al-Qaeda during the proxy war with Afghanistan, do you propose a similar tactic? I should hope not. Its been almost 8 years and NOTHING has been accomplished in Iraq and Afghanistan other than death and fueling [a lot more] hatred and calls to radicalism.
Which makes the point precisely. When we try to help Islam defend itself from foriegn threats we start another cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence when we try to contend with the radicalismhatredandviolence we start another cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence. It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence is self sustaining and exists due to no external cause what so ever. There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it or to in any way affect it, and any attempt to do so just empowers those at the center of that cycle. No, it is time to simply kill it by any means necessary. Muslims are not supermen, sooner or later they will get the point that the rest of the world simply is no longer going to tolerate their bullshit.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
PUHLEEAZE! You know just as well as I do that the US was only doing this as a proxy war against the (then) USSR because of the cold war. You seriously cannot be naive as all that.
Stan Shannon wrote:
It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence is self sustaining and exists due to no external cause what so ever.
You would need to provide logical proofs. Thats pronounced Loh-jee-kal. It means things that make sense.
Stan Shannon wrote:
There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it or to in any way affect it, and any attempt to do so just empowers those at the center of that cycle.
Jordan is a great example to refute this claim. Once it was rampant but with peace, prosperity and proper education (I'm talking about religion) the majority of people are refusing to listen to radical religious leaders. Jordan is most likely the most stable and safe Arab nation because of the way the government has handled radicalism. I assure you it did not happen overnight. Its taken 20 years at least starting with his father's efforts, the late King Hussein.
Stan Shannon wrote:
No, it is time to simply kill it by any means necessary.
Killing it would require patience and efforts that are open-handed in nature. You can't shake hands when your hands are fists. Education, prosperity and then government. In that order so that an effective solution will be achieved.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
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Richard, that has always been and contiues to be the most intellectualy vapid and inherently meaningless observation a human being could possibly make.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Trust you are not suggesting that EVERY Muslim is a terrorist or a potential terrorist, as you could not be more wrong. Just as wrong as MacArthy was in suggesting that those with left-learning tendencies were Communists. You have Democrats and Republicans in your Senate. Some of them are die-hard Capitalists, but they are not ALL die-hard Capitalists so it would also be inappropriate to say that ALL Americans are die-hard Capitalists as that would be just as wrong as suggesting that all of Islam's followers are radicals. Thus I contend my comments were not meaningless nor vapid.
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PUHLEEAZE! You know just as well as I do that the US was only doing this as a proxy war against the (then) USSR because of the cold war. You seriously cannot be naive as all that.
Stan Shannon wrote:
It should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that the cycle of radicalismhatredandviolence is self sustaining and exists due to no external cause what so ever.
You would need to provide logical proofs. Thats pronounced Loh-jee-kal. It means things that make sense.
Stan Shannon wrote:
There is absolutely nothing we can do to stop it or to in any way affect it, and any attempt to do so just empowers those at the center of that cycle.
Jordan is a great example to refute this claim. Once it was rampant but with peace, prosperity and proper education (I'm talking about religion) the majority of people are refusing to listen to radical religious leaders. Jordan is most likely the most stable and safe Arab nation because of the way the government has handled radicalism. I assure you it did not happen overnight. Its taken 20 years at least starting with his father's efforts, the late King Hussein.
Stan Shannon wrote:
No, it is time to simply kill it by any means necessary.
Killing it would require patience and efforts that are open-handed in nature. You can't shake hands when your hands are fists. Education, prosperity and then government. In that order so that an effective solution will be achieved.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
It means things that make sense
Not at all. Stan is extremely logical. Unfortunately the a prioris upon which he bases his logic are pretty much irrational, sometimes more, sometimes less.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Is this good enough reason - the unknown - why this Israeli action is happening now as it may be difficult to do same under a new Administration.
I would hazard a guess yes. Don't forget that Israel's single biggest supporter is the US, whether its arms, money, bailouts or political pressure, even the UN, the US has used its right to Veto for Israel a great many number of times. I hope that the new administration is willing to roll-up its sleeves and break heads on both sides of the table to get them to actually work together.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Regarding Iran and Syria, I got the impression during those Presidential debates that Obama is more willing to talk and listen. This stance might become a worry to Israel.
I would hazard another guess that what you are saying is completely correct. Dubya's reign as President was not marked as one of patience and reasoning.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Don't forget that Israel's single biggest supporter is the US, whether its arms, money, bailouts or political pressure, even the UN, the US has used its right to Veto for Israel a great many number of times.
Of course it is. Israel in return has been a faithful ally, at least as much as the UK and certainly more than France, Germany, Australia or Canada. Can you imagine any other country in the world agreeing not to respond when Saddam Hussein bombed it with scud missiles? Can you imagine the all-out war that could have ensued, if Israel had returned fire? And remember please that the results of all out war with Israel have, as an ultimate conclusion, nuclear war.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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pseudonym67 wrote:
Yes by all means lets have a discussion about the tactics of the brutal slaughter of a captive half starved population.
Indeed. So who are you talking about? The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive: the leaders appear to have no trouble at all in decamping to Damascus at the first sign of trouble. Starved? So it's okay to smuggle in Iranian built rockets but not food or medicine? Brutal slaughter? I don't think so: it is the choice of Hamas to place rocket launching sites and armouries inside population centers rather than in land that is not overly populated like most of the farm land at the peripheray of the strip. I don't recall you moaning when innocent Israelis were being blown up by suicide bombers or rocketrs launched from Gaza.
pseudonym67 wrote:
They say that the true test of any civilisation is in how it reacts to adversity.
Apart from the fact that is not the correct quote lets just test how Hamas reacted to adversity. Oh yes, most of the leaders left the population to suffer whilst they escaped to Syria.
pseudonym67 wrote:
Isreal has shown itself to be a collection of barbarians.
And what have Hamas and the Palestinians shown themselves to be by indiscriminately launching rockets across the border for years? You think Israel should just sit back and allow it to keep going on? Or make peace with people that don't want peace? They just want to eradicate Israel. I don't see Egypt steping in with any aid or opening its borders. The only aid is Israeli and, as reported by al jazeera news this morning, it only stopped because there was no where to store it as Hamas would not distribute it to the people. Israel are barabarians? No, they are fighting them.
digital man wrote:
The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive: the leaders appear to have no trouble at all in decamping to Damascus at the first sign of trouble.
Umm, if you're talking about Khaled Mashal[^] then you ought to know this guy has been in Syria since I can recall. No one can leave Gaza either into Egypt or Israel so the reality of it all residents of Gaza are captives.
digital man wrote:
Starved? So it's okay to smuggle in Iranian built rockets but not food or medicine?
Also mistaken. What extremely crude rockets and artillery they have is stuff that they built, or were smuggled a long time ago through the tunnels from Egypt with the arms originally coming either from Yemen or Saudi Arabia or even Jordan, nations that no longer support Hamas or its activities (although I personally would question whether Yemen did completely stop). Iran has nothing to do with Hamas other than vernacular.
digital man wrote:
Brutal slaughter?
It is, under whatever light you put it, it is slaughter, nothing else. Gaza has become the largest concentration camp in history. Not that I'm approving what Hamas is doing/has done, at all. They are evil with the many definitions attached.
digital man wrote:
it is the choice of Hamas to place rocket launching sites and armouries inside population centers rather than in land that is not overly populated like most of the farm land at the peripheray of the strip.
Launch sites are at the periphery, its the houses of the leaders and the supply caches that happen to be in Gaza and its surrounding areas. Their crude weaponry certainly does not have the range to reach Sderot or Ashkalon or any other Israeli town from the heart of Gaza.
digital man wrote:
I don't recall you moaning when innocent Israelis were being blown up by suicide bombers or rocketrs launched from Gaza.
I did. But then again, I'm not the one that blames the people (Palestinian and Israeli) I place the blame squarely upon the shoulders of the so called leaders.
digital man wrote:
Apart from the fact that is no
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Don't forget that Israel's single biggest supporter is the US, whether its arms, money, bailouts or political pressure, even the UN, the US has used its right to Veto for Israel a great many number of times.
Of course it is. Israel in return has been a faithful ally, at least as much as the UK and certainly more than France, Germany, Australia or Canada. Can you imagine any other country in the world agreeing not to respond when Saddam Hussein bombed it with scud missiles? Can you imagine the all-out war that could have ensued, if Israel had returned fire? And remember please that the results of all out war with Israel have, as an ultimate conclusion, nuclear war.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Ah, but Israel claims it doesn't have a nuclear arsenal :rolleyes: Seriously though, since when did ally mean following the leader while bleating like sheep? Just because France, Germany, Canada and Australia did not approve of particular US actions, whether its related to Israel in any way or not, does not make them less of allies.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
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digital man wrote:
The Palestinians in Gaza? Hardly captive: the leaders appear to have no trouble at all in decamping to Damascus at the first sign of trouble.
Umm, if you're talking about Khaled Mashal[^] then you ought to know this guy has been in Syria since I can recall. No one can leave Gaza either into Egypt or Israel so the reality of it all residents of Gaza are captives.
digital man wrote:
Starved? So it's okay to smuggle in Iranian built rockets but not food or medicine?
Also mistaken. What extremely crude rockets and artillery they have is stuff that they built, or were smuggled a long time ago through the tunnels from Egypt with the arms originally coming either from Yemen or Saudi Arabia or even Jordan, nations that no longer support Hamas or its activities (although I personally would question whether Yemen did completely stop). Iran has nothing to do with Hamas other than vernacular.
digital man wrote:
Brutal slaughter?
It is, under whatever light you put it, it is slaughter, nothing else. Gaza has become the largest concentration camp in history. Not that I'm approving what Hamas is doing/has done, at all. They are evil with the many definitions attached.
digital man wrote:
it is the choice of Hamas to place rocket launching sites and armouries inside population centers rather than in land that is not overly populated like most of the farm land at the peripheray of the strip.
Launch sites are at the periphery, its the houses of the leaders and the supply caches that happen to be in Gaza and its surrounding areas. Their crude weaponry certainly does not have the range to reach Sderot or Ashkalon or any other Israeli town from the heart of Gaza.
digital man wrote:
I don't recall you moaning when innocent Israelis were being blown up by suicide bombers or rocketrs launched from Gaza.
I did. But then again, I'm not the one that blames the people (Palestinian and Israeli) I place the blame squarely upon the shoulders of the so called leaders.
digital man wrote:
Apart from the fact that is no
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
one can leave Gaza either into Egypt or Israel so the reality of it all residents of Gaza are captives.
So there are no tunnels?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
What extremely crude rockets and artillery they have is stuff that they built
Err, al jazeera (this morning) reported that they had iranian weaponry being smuggled in: these have a longer range and larger payloads.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
It is, under whatever light you put it, it is slaughter, nothing else
Your opinion, not mine.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Gaza has become the largest concentration camp in history
Laughable.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Their crude weaponry certainly does not have the range to reach Sderot or Ashkalon or any other Israeli town from the heart of Gaza
So where are they coming from? Oh, would it have been from the central square of gaza city this morning? (Again from the surprisingly good al jazeera tv station).
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I did. But then again, I'm not the one that blames the people (Palestinian and Israeli) I place the blame squarely upon the shoulders of the so called leaders.
a) my remarks were not pointed at you. b) The blame always lies with the leaders: as my old dad said to me: old men start the wars and young men finish them.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
But if Gazans were free to leave I can assure you that the majority of Gazans would have left it to the radicals a long time ago
Perhaps but a) I don't think Hamas would let them and b) it's not like their 'good friends', the egyptians, have opened their border in light of the humanitarian crisis. Why is no one berating them for that?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Israel is being very barbaric in the way it is handling this
Disagree: what other (sensible) choices do they have? Every time they conced anything to the Palestinians they just ask for more and there is no way in hell they will cave to violence.
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Ah, but Israel claims it doesn't have a nuclear arsenal :rolleyes: Seriously though, since when did ally mean following the leader while bleating like sheep? Just because France, Germany, Canada and Australia did not approve of particular US actions, whether its related to Israel in any way or not, does not make them less of allies.
Don't forget to vote if the response was helpful
Sig history "dad" Ishmail-Samuel Mustafa "There is no wealth like knowledge, no poverty like ignorance" Ali Ibn Abi Talib
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote: Keep it up. Fool.
I now think of you as Mr. T! - Trollslayer
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Ah, but Israel claims it doesn't have a nuclear arsenal
In discussions like this, it's usually a good idea to strive for accuracy. Israel has refused to either confirm or deny whether it has nuclear weapons, or a nuclear weapons program. It is widely believed to have as many or more ready-to-go weapons than India.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Seriously though, since when did ally mean following the leader while bleating like sheep?
Neither the UK nor Israel should be (or could be by any rational human being) accused of doing this. There have been strong disagrements between both of these countries and the U.S. If you consider your canard to be talking seriously, I suggest you reconsider your choice of words.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
one can leave Gaza either into Egypt or Israel so the reality of it all residents of Gaza are captives.
So there are no tunnels?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
What extremely crude rockets and artillery they have is stuff that they built
Err, al jazeera (this morning) reported that they had iranian weaponry being smuggled in: these have a longer range and larger payloads.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
It is, under whatever light you put it, it is slaughter, nothing else
Your opinion, not mine.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Gaza has become the largest concentration camp in history
Laughable.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Their crude weaponry certainly does not have the range to reach Sderot or Ashkalon or any other Israeli town from the heart of Gaza
So where are they coming from? Oh, would it have been from the central square of gaza city this morning? (Again from the surprisingly good al jazeera tv station).
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I did. But then again, I'm not the one that blames the people (Palestinian and Israeli) I place the blame squarely upon the shoulders of the so called leaders.
a) my remarks were not pointed at you. b) The blame always lies with the leaders: as my old dad said to me: old men start the wars and young men finish them.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
But if Gazans were free to leave I can assure you that the majority of Gazans would have left it to the radicals a long time ago
Perhaps but a) I don't think Hamas would let them and b) it's not like their 'good friends', the egyptians, have opened their border in light of the humanitarian crisis. Why is no one berating them for that?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Israel is being very barbaric in the way it is handling this
Disagree: what other (sensible) choices do they have? Every time they conced anything to the Palestinians they just ask for more and there is no way in hell they will cave to violence.
digital man wrote:
Why is no one berating them for that?
Update: At least in Lebanon, the large Palestinian population is demonstrating outside the Egyptian embassy because Egypt is blockading the strip.
digital man wrote:
what other (sensible) choices do they have
Apparently some Muslims and the president of France believe that a sensible choice for Israel would be to allow Hamas to continue to kill Israelis and write it off as just Arabs being Arabs.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
one can leave Gaza either into Egypt or Israel so the reality of it all residents of Gaza are captives.
So there are no tunnels?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
What extremely crude rockets and artillery they have is stuff that they built
Err, al jazeera (this morning) reported that they had iranian weaponry being smuggled in: these have a longer range and larger payloads.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
It is, under whatever light you put it, it is slaughter, nothing else
Your opinion, not mine.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Gaza has become the largest concentration camp in history
Laughable.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Their crude weaponry certainly does not have the range to reach Sderot or Ashkalon or any other Israeli town from the heart of Gaza
So where are they coming from? Oh, would it have been from the central square of gaza city this morning? (Again from the surprisingly good al jazeera tv station).
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
I did. But then again, I'm not the one that blames the people (Palestinian and Israeli) I place the blame squarely upon the shoulders of the so called leaders.
a) my remarks were not pointed at you. b) The blame always lies with the leaders: as my old dad said to me: old men start the wars and young men finish them.
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
But if Gazans were free to leave I can assure you that the majority of Gazans would have left it to the radicals a long time ago
Perhaps but a) I don't think Hamas would let them and b) it's not like their 'good friends', the egyptians, have opened their border in light of the humanitarian crisis. Why is no one berating them for that?
Mustafa Ismail Mustafa wrote:
Israel is being very barbaric in the way it is handling this
Disagree: what other (sensible) choices do they have? Every time they conced anything to the Palestinians they just ask for more and there is no way in hell they will cave to violence.
digital man wrote:
So there are no tunnels?
You could be a bit more realistic. In the first place, the number of tunnels that do exist is very questionable. Secondly, I really doubt such make shift tunnels are really practical for a mass evacuation.
digital man wrote:
Err, al jazeera (this morning) reported that they had iranian weaponry being smuggled in: these have a longer range and larger payloads.
In the Arab world, everything Al-Jazeera broadcasts is always placed under scrutiny. Its known not to report the complete story and in many cases words things in such a manner as to leave the reader/viewer to draw their own, often false conclusions. The only time I do believe it is when another of the Arab news networks (Such as Al-Arabiya) confirms their story. Its funded by Qatar which in turn though not too friendly with KSA is certainly no friend of Iran and if it can in any way paint Iran in a worse light, they won't miss the chance. Politics in this region are sicker than normal and that I do leave to your imagination.
digital man wrote:
Your opinion, not mine.
Mine and many others, just as you and many others are entitled to your own opinions.
digital man wrote:
Laughable.
Not at all. You tell me why you believe it is a laughable claim.
digital man wrote:
So where are they coming from? Oh, would it have been from the central square of gaza city this morning? (Again from the surprisingly good al jazeera tv station).
This would be a recent thing because Israel has been entered the Gaza strip and unfortunately, the bastards are using human shields. Let me re-iterate that not for a moment do I feel sorry for Hamas and its militants, I feel very badly for the civilians on both sides of the border.
digital man wrote:
a) my remarks were not pointed at you. b) The blame always lies with the leaders: as my old dad said to me: old men start the wars and young men finish them.
I agree completely and I might add that its the people who pay the price.
digital man wrote:
Perhaps but a) I don't think Hamas would let them and b) it's not like their 'good friends', the egyptians,