Freedom of Speech - European style

MrPlankton

Whether it's prosecuting speech in Holland, using the levers of government to dig up dirt in your past for asking a question (Joe the plumber) here in the US, or regulating access to the internet as being talked about in Australia, I think we assume this is a liberty that is on the decline. However on the bright side our freedom to travel has not been infringed on yet, as is done in communist/fuedel societies... I always like looking on the bright side.

MrPlankton

Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

All of which is exacly what I just said.

Yes. You said that I'm a traitor. Because I criticised Bush, I encouraged Al Queda to kill American troops. You on the other hand said, "f*** this goddamned collectivist piece of sh*t country."

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Mike Gaskey

MrPlankton wrote:

I always like looking on the bright side.

:)

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Because I criticised Bush, I encouraged Al Queda to kill American troops.

You did. There is no way to know how many of our troops have died as a consequence of such irresponsible use of our freedoms as Americans.

Oakman wrote:

You on the other hand said, "f*** this goddamned collectivist piece of sh*t country."

And I stand by it. Call me a traitor all you like. All I wish for is the opportunity to make the most of it.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

All I wish for is the opportunity to make the most of it.

Head off to Afghanistan. Your views on almost everything coincide with theirs.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Your views on almost everything coincide with theirs.

No, they are not. But the fact that you compare allowing this nation to work as it was designed to work to a rouge terrorist state explains a lot about the rest of your behavior.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Mike Gaskey

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

All he did was to compare some of them with Hitler, and that is an opinion, something which everyone (including movie makers) are entitled to.

:thumbsup: damn, you're good.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

Stan, you are a terrorist born and bred. You attack anyone who disagrees with you; you despise the country that gave you birth, you have even declared war on the U.S. I expect to read any day now that you have attacked a Federal Office building with explosives, or climbed over the fence surrounding the White House carrying a rifle. You are a real sick puppy.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Oakman

MrPlankton wrote:

However on the bright side our freedom to travel has not been infringed on yet

3 words: No, Fly, List.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Stan, you are a terrorist born and bred. You attack anyone who disagrees with you; you despise the country that gave you birth, you have even declared war on the U.S. I expect to read any day now that you have attacked a Federal Office building with explosives, or climbed over the fence surrounding the White House carrying a rifle. You are a real sick puppy.

Sorry, to disappoint you, Jon, but that is complete bullshit. What really scares you about me is that there are people left out here who do, in fact, understand that you are full of crap. Terrorism is immoral at worst, and counterproductive at best. I understand that as well as anyone. But what is happening to this country is wrong. The democratic process has failed. The traditional values and norms of our society have been demonized and replaced with an alternavtive set as alien as they could possibly be. But, no, I would not become involved in any effort to resist any of that which was not done in a proper fashion - a stated set of political objectives properly confirmed and voted on. I have no idea how any of that could come about, but if it did, yes I would probably join it. If I felt othewise, I'm pretty sure I would not be putting my name on my posts.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

KaRl

"The opening scenes of Fitna - a Koranic term sometimes translated as "strife" - show a copy of the holy book followed by footage of the bomb attacks on the US on 11 September 2001, London in July 2005 and Madrid in March 2004. " Such a scene clearly equals Islam to terrorism, don't you think?

Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall? Fold with us! ¤ flickr

KaRl

He can still appeal to the European Court of Justice. If a movie was depicting Christianity like a fascist order and a terrorist religion, with an explicit call to defend one's values against Christian ones, wouldn't it be a call to fight Christians? If a movie was starting by showing a David's star and then showing palestinian kids killed by Israeli bombings, Palestinians who arms are broken with stones by Israeli soldiers, and then the message was "Stop Jewification. Defend our freedom", wouldn't this movie by antisemitic?

Military justice is to justice what military music is to music. Fold with us! ¤ flickr

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Ka?l wrote:

Such a scene clearly equals Islam to terrorism, don't you think?

I agree that it does equal islam to terrorism. But what should be done about it? Is it criminal to believe so? He's not encouraging others to commit crimes. As long as the movie is not telling others to go out and hurt anyone or anyone else's property, then it's just a matter of opinion.

-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit

soap brain

He's the one hoping that the US crumbles just so he can say "I told you so".

Stan Shannon

Yes, I hope the foreign power that has taken over my country fails. Is that so strange?

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

soap brain

Hardly foreign.

Oakman

Ravel H. Joyce wrote:

He's the one hoping that the US crumbles just so he can say "I told you so".

It's a shame but he would rather see the U.S. brought to her knees than to accept the fact that we no longer live in the 19th century.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

KaRl

Remember the Kristallnacht, it was justified by saying that all the Jews were collectively responsible for the assassination of a German diplomat vom Rath in Paris. The movie follows the same fallacy, making an entire group responsible for the actions of a few. We see here people attacked because they are Jews or Muslims. Should we let some people throw more gas on the fire? I don't think so. Is forbidding such movies a solution? I don't think so either. For the moment I have no solution to offer.

Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:

As long as the movie is not telling others to go out and hurt anyone or anyone else's property, then it's just a matter of opinion.

Such a message can be implicit - If I make a movie sayng "Swedish people are ugly bastards and we have to defend ourselves against Sweden", do I bare responsability if a Swedish citizen is attacked the day after?

The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread Fold with us! ¤ flickr

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Sorry, to disappoint you, Jon,

The only disappointment I'm feeling is in myself. I can't believe I switched to I.E. to find out what you were whining about and actually got suckered into pointing out just what an idiot you are, again. Rest assured, that I have learned my lesson. FF is my friend.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Jorgen Sigvardsson

Ka?l wrote:

For the moment I have no solution to offer.

How about free speech?

Ka?l wrote:

If I make a movie sayng "Swedish people are ugly bastards and we have to defend ourselves against Sweden", do I bare responsability if a Swedish citizen is attacked the day after?

Sure you bear responsibility. Freedom of speech doesn't come without accountability! You are free to yell "Fire!" in a shopping mall, but there will be consequences if you were lying. By suppressing the messages you don't want to hear, only make the messages stronger for those who want to listen. You are handing the suppressed and their followers an enemy to hate. What happened to education??

-- Kein Mitleid Für Die Mehrheit