On abortion
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Abortion is illegal in Brazil, except for cases of rape and when the mother's life is in danger. Nevertheless, obstetricians estimate that around 1 million clandestine abortions happen in the country, per year (for a population of 180 million). In the 80's it was around 4 million. The teaching of contraceptive techniques was the main driver of the decrease. Abortion is performed mostly in clandestine clinics or through self-medication (by using the drug Cytotec[^], sold from 70 euros here[^]). Doctors very rarely perform abortion but they're allowed to instruct a patient on how to use Cytotec and they can take care of them after the abortion. They do this because they (and public health authorities) consider their obligation to minimize harm to the patient's health. In Uruguay, during the 90s, it was discovered that illegal unassisted abortion was responsible for 35% of mothers'death during carriage. After authorities and doctors there adopted the policy of informing women how to perform it and help them after they perform it, the rate felt to 20%. I am pro-choice but I find an abortion a tragedy. No decent person feels comfortable in accepting it. The issue, as doctors and authorities are discovering in Brazil and Uruguay is: what is the smallest tragedy, legalized or clandestine abortion?
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
The issue of abortion in the US is unique. We are about the only modern nation which does not actually have legislation concerning abortion one way or another. Our current system was imposed by a very bizarre supreme court decision based on some kind of penumbra of a shadow of somehting some judge thought some other judge said he saw in the constitution. Or something like that. Personnally, I'm not anti-abortion at all. I think it is obscene for it to be used as a form of birth control, and I think all of the liberal arguments in support of it border on the absurd, but aside from that I understand the need for it as a simple medical issue. I just wish our legislators had the courage to tackle the issue directly rather than letting the courts do the heavy lifting for them.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
modified on Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:51 AM
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The issue of abortion in the US is unique. We are about the only modern nation which does not actually have legislation concerning abortion one way or another. Our current system was imposed by a very bizarre supreme court decision based on some kind of penumbra of a shadow of somehting some judge thought some other judge said he saw in the constitution. Or something like that. Personnally, I'm not anti-abortion at all. I think it is obscene for it to be used as a form of birth control, and I think all of the liberal arguments in support of it border on the absurd, but aside from that I understand the need for it as a simple medical issue. I just wish our legislators had the courage to tackle the issue directly rather than letting the courts do the heavy lifting for them.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
modified on Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:51 AM
Stan Shannon wrote:
We are about the only modern nation which does not actually have legislation concerning abortion
Canada also doesn't have any law regarding abortion[^]. I personally think this is the best solution. Any law deciding who has the right to be born sounds like nazi to me. The state just shouldn't have any voice in this issue. Anyway, the fundamental fact is that, regardless of how a country decides how to handle it, the discussion will never setle. It is one issue where it is impossible to conciliate oposing views.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
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Abortion is illegal in Brazil, except for cases of rape and when the mother's life is in danger. Nevertheless, obstetricians estimate that around 1 million clandestine abortions happen in the country, per year (for a population of 180 million). In the 80's it was around 4 million. The teaching of contraceptive techniques was the main driver of the decrease. Abortion is performed mostly in clandestine clinics or through self-medication (by using the drug Cytotec[^], sold from 70 euros here[^]). Doctors very rarely perform abortion but they're allowed to instruct a patient on how to use Cytotec and they can take care of them after the abortion. They do this because they (and public health authorities) consider their obligation to minimize harm to the patient's health. In Uruguay, during the 90s, it was discovered that illegal unassisted abortion was responsible for 35% of mothers'death during carriage. After authorities and doctors there adopted the policy of informing women how to perform it and help them after they perform it, the rate felt to 20%. I am pro-choice but I find an abortion a tragedy. No decent person feels comfortable in accepting it. The issue, as doctors and authorities are discovering in Brazil and Uruguay is: what is the smallest tragedy, legalized or clandestine abortion?
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Abortion is better than unwanted children. That said, late abortion is a difficult call. Early abortion is mere loss of cells, where one draws the line is a question for individuals. To force someone into aborting, or to force them into not aborting? Very difficult, nno-one should have that call except the mother. Why should you be forced to do something based on another's beliefs? I have been the father of a child that was aborted, I have no guilt, I could not have provided at that time. I am now a father of a strapping lad that I could raise properly, so again, which is better? Such a difficult question...
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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The issue of abortion in the US is unique. We are about the only modern nation which does not actually have legislation concerning abortion one way or another. Our current system was imposed by a very bizarre supreme court decision based on some kind of penumbra of a shadow of somehting some judge thought some other judge said he saw in the constitution. Or something like that. Personnally, I'm not anti-abortion at all. I think it is obscene for it to be used as a form of birth control, and I think all of the liberal arguments in support of it border on the absurd, but aside from that I understand the need for it as a simple medical issue. I just wish our legislators had the courage to tackle the issue directly rather than letting the courts do the heavy lifting for them.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
modified on Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:51 AM
Stan Shannon wrote:
The issue of abortion in the US is unique. We are about the only modern nation which does not actually have legislation concerning abortion one way or another. ... I just wish our legislators had the courage to tackle the issue directly rather than letting the courts do the heavy lifting for them.
It is not strictly true that the US has no abortion legislation. What is true is that the Supreme Court has constrained what legislation is allowed. You still have parental notification laws and a ban on partial birth abortion, for example. In both Australia and the UK, the courts have played a substantial role because the legislature has passed legislation that left the issue sufficiently ill-defined that the courts had to figure out what was illegal themselves. Thus the UK Offences Against the Person Act of 1861 (which Australia inherited) did not ban "abortion" outright, but instead banned "unlawful abortion" without ever specifying what distinguished unlawful from lawful abortion. That was left to the courts to decide. What distinguishes the US from Australia and the UK is that the abortion ruling in the US is a Constitutional ruling, which trumps any legislative intent. In Australia and the UK, by contrast, the courts were interpreting ordinary legislation, not the Constitution, and hence it was open to the legislature to pass new legislation to either clarify or modify their intent. The legislatures have done this to varying extents in the UK and the different Australian states. Given the current Constitutional interpretation, the "courage" of the US legislatures is largely beside the point. It is out of their hands.
John Carson
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Stan Shannon wrote:
The issue of abortion in the US is unique. We are about the only modern nation which does not actually have legislation concerning abortion one way or another. ... I just wish our legislators had the courage to tackle the issue directly rather than letting the courts do the heavy lifting for them.
It is not strictly true that the US has no abortion legislation. What is true is that the Supreme Court has constrained what legislation is allowed. You still have parental notification laws and a ban on partial birth abortion, for example. In both Australia and the UK, the courts have played a substantial role because the legislature has passed legislation that left the issue sufficiently ill-defined that the courts had to figure out what was illegal themselves. Thus the UK Offences Against the Person Act of 1861 (which Australia inherited) did not ban "abortion" outright, but instead banned "unlawful abortion" without ever specifying what distinguished unlawful from lawful abortion. That was left to the courts to decide. What distinguishes the US from Australia and the UK is that the abortion ruling in the US is a Constitutional ruling, which trumps any legislative intent. In Australia and the UK, by contrast, the courts were interpreting ordinary legislation, not the Constitution, and hence it was open to the legislature to pass new legislation to either clarify or modify their intent. The legislatures have done this to varying extents in the UK and the different Australian states. Given the current Constitutional interpretation, the "courage" of the US legislatures is largely beside the point. It is out of their hands.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
It is not strictly true that the US has no abortion legislation. What is true is that the Supreme Court has constrained what legislation is allowed. You still have parental notification laws and a ban on partial birth abortion, for example.
I will conceed that point. There are laws that address abortion in a tangential manner.
John Carson wrote:
What distinguishes the US from Australia and the UK is that the abortion ruling in the US is a Constitutional ruling, which trumps any legislative intent. In Australia and the UK, by contrast, the courts were interpreting ordinary legislation, not the Constitution, and hence it was open to the legislature to pass new legislation to either clarify or modify their intent. The legislatures have done this to varying extents in the UK and the different Australian states. Given the current Constitutional interpretation, the "courage" of the US legislatures is largely beside the point. It is out of their hands.
However, that statement is fraught with ignorance of the US constitutional system. The courts do not have the authority to take anything out of the hands of the legislature unless the legislature has placed the issue in the constitution in the first place. The constitution belongs to the people, not to the courts. It is ours, not theirs. The congress is the ultimate law of the land, not the courts. This is a case where the courts have entirely stepped past their constitutional bounds. If the courts can make anything up as they go, there is no need for either of the other two branches of government to even exist. Hell, there is no reason to have democracy at all. With Roe V Wade, the courts made law, they did not interpret anything that is actually stated in the constitution. To claim otherwise is to declare the courts as the be all end all of the American system of government. They are not.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
We are about the only modern nation which does not actually have legislation concerning abortion
Canada also doesn't have any law regarding abortion[^]. I personally think this is the best solution. Any law deciding who has the right to be born sounds like nazi to me. The state just shouldn't have any voice in this issue. Anyway, the fundamental fact is that, regardless of how a country decides how to handle it, the discussion will never setle. It is one issue where it is impossible to conciliate oposing views.
Of all forms of sexual aberration, the most unnatural is abstinence.
Diego Moita wrote:
Any law deciding who has the right to be born sounds like nazi to me. The state just shouldn't have any voice in this issue.
Than you disagree with Roe v wade? The supreme court is part of the government you know?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Abortion is better than unwanted children. That said, late abortion is a difficult call. Early abortion is mere loss of cells, where one draws the line is a question for individuals. To force someone into aborting, or to force them into not aborting? Very difficult, nno-one should have that call except the mother. Why should you be forced to do something based on another's beliefs? I have been the father of a child that was aborted, I have no guilt, I could not have provided at that time. I am now a father of a strapping lad that I could raise properly, so again, which is better? Such a difficult question...
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Dalek Dave wrote:
Early abortion is mere loss of cells,
According to you.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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John Carson wrote:
It is not strictly true that the US has no abortion legislation. What is true is that the Supreme Court has constrained what legislation is allowed. You still have parental notification laws and a ban on partial birth abortion, for example.
I will conceed that point. There are laws that address abortion in a tangential manner.
John Carson wrote:
What distinguishes the US from Australia and the UK is that the abortion ruling in the US is a Constitutional ruling, which trumps any legislative intent. In Australia and the UK, by contrast, the courts were interpreting ordinary legislation, not the Constitution, and hence it was open to the legislature to pass new legislation to either clarify or modify their intent. The legislatures have done this to varying extents in the UK and the different Australian states. Given the current Constitutional interpretation, the "courage" of the US legislatures is largely beside the point. It is out of their hands.
However, that statement is fraught with ignorance of the US constitutional system. The courts do not have the authority to take anything out of the hands of the legislature unless the legislature has placed the issue in the constitution in the first place. The constitution belongs to the people, not to the courts. It is ours, not theirs. The congress is the ultimate law of the land, not the courts. This is a case where the courts have entirely stepped past their constitutional bounds. If the courts can make anything up as they go, there is no need for either of the other two branches of government to even exist. Hell, there is no reason to have democracy at all. With Roe V Wade, the courts made law, they did not interpret anything that is actually stated in the constitution. To claim otherwise is to declare the courts as the be all end all of the American system of government. They are not.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
However, that statement is fraught with ignorance of the US constitutional system.
No, it means that I accept the prevailing position in the US, which is that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of the meaning of the Constitution and hence of the Constitutionality of any laws passed by the legislature. I realise that you cling to a contrary view, but your view has not been accepted since Marbury v. Madison in 1803. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison[^]
John Carson
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Stan Shannon wrote:
However, that statement is fraught with ignorance of the US constitutional system.
No, it means that I accept the prevailing position in the US, which is that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of the meaning of the Constitution and hence of the Constitutionality of any laws passed by the legislature. I realise that you cling to a contrary view, but your view has not been accepted since Marbury v. Madison in 1803. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison[^]
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
I realise that you cling to a contrary view, but your view has not been accepted since Marbury v. Madison in 1803.
Stan is not willing to concede that possibility that it is later than 1800 yet.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Stan Shannon wrote:
However, that statement is fraught with ignorance of the US constitutional system.
No, it means that I accept the prevailing position in the US, which is that the Supreme Court is the ultimate arbiter of the meaning of the Constitution and hence of the Constitutionality of any laws passed by the legislature. I realise that you cling to a contrary view, but your view has not been accepted since Marbury v. Madison in 1803. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marbury_v._Madison[^]
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
I realise that you cling to a contrary view, but your view has not been accepted since Marbury v. Madison in 1803.
Well, now that we have seen that the consequencies of that decision fully validates Jefferson's original concerns, perhaps it is time to reconsider it. What the precedent of roe v wade actually says is "We are the supreme court, no matter what the constitution actually says, it means only what we say it means." That has gone far past judicial review to become blatant judicial tyranny. Which, btw, is precisely why it is so important to leftists around the world such as yourself. It was the most obvious chink in our Jeffersonian armor. Jeffersonian democracy's achilles heel.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
modified on Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:38 PM
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John Carson wrote:
I realise that you cling to a contrary view, but your view has not been accepted since Marbury v. Madison in 1803.
Stan is not willing to concede that possibility that it is later than 1800 yet.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
"I believe in my neighbors. I know their faults, and I know that their virtues far outweigh their faults. Just be sure the supreme court keeps any real power out of their hands, eh? What a fucking joke.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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John Carson wrote:
I realise that you cling to a contrary view, but your view has not been accepted since Marbury v. Madison in 1803.
Well, now that we have seen that the consequencies of that decision fully validates Jefferson's original concerns, perhaps it is time to reconsider it. What the precedent of roe v wade actually says is "We are the supreme court, no matter what the constitution actually says, it means only what we say it means." That has gone far past judicial review to become blatant judicial tyranny. Which, btw, is precisely why it is so important to leftists around the world such as yourself. It was the most obvious chink in our Jeffersonian armor. Jeffersonian democracy's achilles heel.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
modified on Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:38 PM
Stan Shannon wrote:
That has gone far past judicial review to become blatant judicial tyranny. Which, btw, is precisely why it is so important to leftists around the world such as yourself.
The idea that judicial activism in the US is "important to leftists around the world" is pure fantasy and part of your paranoia. Most "leftists around the world" would be barely aware of how the US system works in this respect and "let the judges rule" is certainly not a traditional leftist catchcry.
John Carson
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Stan Shannon wrote:
That has gone far past judicial review to become blatant judicial tyranny. Which, btw, is precisely why it is so important to leftists around the world such as yourself.
The idea that judicial activism in the US is "important to leftists around the world" is pure fantasy and part of your paranoia. Most "leftists around the world" would be barely aware of how the US system works in this respect and "let the judges rule" is certainly not a traditional leftist catchcry.
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
The idea that judicial activism in the US is "important to leftists around the world" is pure fantasy and part of your paranoia.
So you're saying that you are a figment of my imagination? Wow. Thats a relief...
John Carson wrote:
"let the judges rule" is certainly not a traditional leftist catchcry.
No, but it obviously works pretty well in a pinch given the appropriate judges. There is only one reason Roe v Wade is so important. The left knew full well that it would be an issue that Christian society at large could not dismiss. They would have to oppose it. That allowed the left to create a legal wedge between the US government and Christianity which simply had never existed before. Christianity had to take a position against an issue which, as poorly reasoned as it was, was framed in constitutional precident. For the first time in American history Christianity was pried loose from the national society itself, and was thrown onto the defensive. It was one of the most brilliant master strokes in political history.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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John Carson wrote:
The idea that judicial activism in the US is "important to leftists around the world" is pure fantasy and part of your paranoia.
So you're saying that you are a figment of my imagination? Wow. Thats a relief...
John Carson wrote:
"let the judges rule" is certainly not a traditional leftist catchcry.
No, but it obviously works pretty well in a pinch given the appropriate judges. There is only one reason Roe v Wade is so important. The left knew full well that it would be an issue that Christian society at large could not dismiss. They would have to oppose it. That allowed the left to create a legal wedge between the US government and Christianity which simply had never existed before. Christianity had to take a position against an issue which, as poorly reasoned as it was, was framed in constitutional precident. For the first time in American history Christianity was pried loose from the national society itself, and was thrown onto the defensive. It was one of the most brilliant master strokes in political history.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
There is only one reason Roe v Wade is so important. The left knew full well that it would be an issue that Christian society at large could not dismiss. They would have to oppose it. That allowed the left to create a legal wedge between the US government and Christianity which simply had never existed before. Christianity had to take a position against an issue which, as poorly reasoned as it was, was framed in constitutional precident. For the first time in American history Christianity was pried loose from the national society itself, and was thrown onto the defensive. It was one of the most brilliant master strokes in political history.
Just paranoia. 1. The issue was abortion, not Christianity. 2. Winning through the legislature rather than the courts would have been just as good for the left (better, actually). The left pursued both paths. The advantage of the court for the left is that its rulings have nationwide effect, so it is more promising if you want to change the law in Mississippi. 3. Your "legal wedge between the US government and Christianity which simply had never existed before" claim is nonsense. Conservative Christians have been involved in numerous battles over many years with a rather poor success rate: over adultery, blasphemy, censorship, evolution, homosexuality... They are simply on the wrong side of history. It has nothing to do with "brilliant master strokes".
John Carson
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Stan Shannon wrote:
There is only one reason Roe v Wade is so important. The left knew full well that it would be an issue that Christian society at large could not dismiss. They would have to oppose it. That allowed the left to create a legal wedge between the US government and Christianity which simply had never existed before. Christianity had to take a position against an issue which, as poorly reasoned as it was, was framed in constitutional precident. For the first time in American history Christianity was pried loose from the national society itself, and was thrown onto the defensive. It was one of the most brilliant master strokes in political history.
Just paranoia. 1. The issue was abortion, not Christianity. 2. Winning through the legislature rather than the courts would have been just as good for the left (better, actually). The left pursued both paths. The advantage of the court for the left is that its rulings have nationwide effect, so it is more promising if you want to change the law in Mississippi. 3. Your "legal wedge between the US government and Christianity which simply had never existed before" claim is nonsense. Conservative Christians have been involved in numerous battles over many years with a rather poor success rate: over adultery, blasphemy, censorship, evolution, homosexuality... They are simply on the wrong side of history. It has nothing to do with "brilliant master strokes".
John Carson
John Carson wrote:
2. Winning through the legislature rather than the courts would have been just as good for the left (better, actually). The left pursued both paths. The advantage of the court for the left is that its rulings have nationwide effect, so it is more promising if you want to change the law in Mississippi.
and, ummmm, would that be necessary you think because Mississippi was, well, more Christian?
John Carson wrote:
Your "legal wedge between the US government and Christianity which simply had never existed before" claim is nonsense. Conservative Christians have been involved in numerous battles over many years with a rather poor success rate: over adultery, blasphemy, censorship, evolution, homosexuality... They are simply on the wrong side of history. It has nothing to do with "brilliant master strokes".
So, just to be sure I understand. Christianity ,which once defined most of our social and cultural attitudes on these issues, completely independtly of any sort of political coercion from the federal state (you, know, separation of church and state and all), is getting its ass kicked as a result of simple historic processess completely and utterly unrelated to leftist principles but because people are just becoming more enlightened for reasons having nothing to do at all with the fact that the left is using the courts to get around the inconvenience of legistlation becuase the courts have interpreted the constituion in such a way that they have the authority to exert their will unopposed throughout every corner of our society? Thats your arguemnt? Well, gee, that certainly relieves my paranoia. Thanks, I feel better already.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
Early abortion is mere loss of cells,
According to you.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Well of course according to me, I said it was a personal decision. I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
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Well of course according to me, I said it was a personal decision. I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Dalek Dave wrote:
I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
But Stan is a fascist. He spends much of his time telling other people how to live their lives. If he had the power, we'd all march in lockstep with him.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
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Well of course according to me, I said it was a personal decision. I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Dalek Dave wrote:
I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
Nothing wrong with that... Until people start dying. I'm assuming you don't have the same indifference to Jeffrey Dahmer, Chucky Manson, Scott Peterson, Somalia, Hitler, etc. I'm assuming you say that because you don't view abortion as the killing of another human being. I assume you're not an anarchist. My point is, virtually every nation on planet Earth condems murder and has laws regarding it. And most normal people don't see many just uses for it. And the laws prohibiting murder (like all laws) are telling someone what to do or not do based on a moral code. Your argument trivializes the actual issue, the core question of "is it human life".
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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Well of course according to me, I said it was a personal decision. I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
------------------------------------ "The greatest tragedy in mankind's entire history may be the hijacking of morality by religion" Arthur C Clarke
Dalek Dave wrote:
I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
Hmmmm, that sounds a lot like a personal moral code to me.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
I wouldn't presume to tell you how to live your life, and I wouldn't want anyone else telling me to do or not do something based on another's personal moral code.
But Stan is a fascist. He spends much of his time telling other people how to live their lives. If he had the power, we'd all march in lockstep with him.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface
Oakman wrote:
But Stan is a fascist. He spends much of his time telling other people how to live their lives. If he had the power, we'd all march in lockstep with him.
Yes, because obviously someone who believes that political power belongs in the hands of the people and not in the hands of an all powerful supreme court is a fascist but someone who believes that we should all be forced to obey the dicatats of that court deciding what ever it wants to with no regard at all for the actual text of the constitution is not a fascist. Yeah, that makes a hell of a lot of sense. Is that another example of that libertarian mental agility of yours?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.