It's about time!
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So basically you're saying that the government should attach no strings whatsoever to the use of the billions of dollars these street beggars have taken? These companies took that money with full knowledge that it would give the government control over how it was used. If they don't like it, then they are free to give the money back.
James L. Thomson wrote:
So basically you're saying that the government should attach no strings whatsoever to the use of the billions of dollars these street beggars have taken?
not at all, I'm saying the government should have made those terms of the original deal instead of coming back after the fact and saying, "geez, I fucked up and want a do over".
James L. Thomson wrote:
These companies took that money with full knowledge that it would give the government control over how it was used.
Dead wrong. If I remember correctly these monies were in exchange for preferred stock, specifically. Perferred stock carries no voting rights.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Oakman wrote:
Maybe a legislative fiat is not the best way of controlling these idiots
of course it isn't.
Oakman wrote:
but since it was a legislative fiat that gave them the money they are throwing around, this is simply correcting an oversight in the original appropriation
there you go, let us construct an agreement after the fact. I have a few of my own I'd like to reconstruct.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
let us construct an agreement after the fact.
After spending umpty-ump years dealing with corporate suits, I assure you that they are quite accustomed to changing the rules half-way through the game. The only problem they will have is that this time they're on the bottom, not the top.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I have a few of my own I'd like to reconstruct.
Run for the Senate. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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James L. Thomson wrote:
So basically you're saying that the government should attach no strings whatsoever to the use of the billions of dollars these street beggars have taken?
not at all, I'm saying the government should have made those terms of the original deal instead of coming back after the fact and saying, "geez, I fucked up and want a do over".
James L. Thomson wrote:
These companies took that money with full knowledge that it would give the government control over how it was used.
Dead wrong. If I remember correctly these monies were in exchange for preferred stock, specifically. Perferred stock carries no voting rights.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
We're not talking about a private investment or loan, we're talking about taxpayers' money. That carries with it de facto restrictions on use, including the risk that the government will step in later and tell you how you may and may not use it. When you make a deal with Lord Vader, you don't get the right to complain when he "alters" it.
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We're not talking about a private investment or loan, we're talking about taxpayers' money. That carries with it de facto restrictions on use, including the risk that the government will step in later and tell you how you may and may not use it. When you make a deal with Lord Vader, you don't get the right to complain when he "alters" it.
James L. Thomson wrote:
When you make a deal with Lord Vader, you don't get the right to complain when he "alters" it.
Ain't that the truth!
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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We're not talking about a private investment or loan, we're talking about taxpayers' money. That carries with it de facto restrictions on use, including the risk that the government will step in later and tell you how you may and may not use it. When you make a deal with Lord Vader, you don't get the right to complain when he "alters" it.
James L. Thomson wrote:
That carries with it de facto restrictions on use
naive and wrong.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
let us construct an agreement after the fact.
After spending umpty-ump years dealing with corporate suits, I assure you that they are quite accustomed to changing the rules half-way through the game. The only problem they will have is that this time they're on the bottom, not the top.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I have a few of my own I'd like to reconstruct.
Run for the Senate. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
Run for the Senate.
now wouldn't that be a hoot.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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This is a tough call. It seems to me that getting the government to force people who didn't want to buy your lousy products in the first place, or who acatually lost money on your insane business practices, to give billions of dollars to your company anyway deserve's a bonus of some kind. Thats some damn good management right there, now. I mean, hell, I'd just as soon the business guys get it as the politicians. What possibly difference should it make to me?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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It's their company (USSA's), they own it, they can do what ever they want. In order to make it more consistent though, they should apply the same laws as federal employees which I believe that no bonus can be more than 3% of base pay. After a fashion they are federal employees.
MrPlankton
Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.
modified on Friday, January 30, 2009 4:38 PM
So you don't mind transferring money from your pocket (tax dollars) to executive bonuses for those whose companies are needing to beg from the government? If these were merely companies (public or private) deciding how to spend their profits or capital, I would agree that they answer only to the owners (shareholders), but when you have had to beg billions from the taxpayers, maybe not.
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James L. Thomson wrote:
So basically you're saying that the government should attach no strings whatsoever to the use of the billions of dollars these street beggars have taken?
not at all, I'm saying the government should have made those terms of the original deal instead of coming back after the fact and saying, "geez, I fucked up and want a do over".
James L. Thomson wrote:
These companies took that money with full knowledge that it would give the government control over how it was used.
Dead wrong. If I remember correctly these monies were in exchange for preferred stock, specifically. Perferred stock carries no voting rights.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
I'm saying the government should have made those terms of the original deal instead of coming back after the fact and saying, "geez, I f***ed up and want a do over".
But that sounds better than, "geez, I f*cked up, oh well, whatever." doesn't it?
"Republicans run for office saying that the government doesn't work, then they get elected, and they prove it." -- Al Franken
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
I'm saying the government should have made those terms of the original deal instead of coming back after the fact and saying, "geez, I f***ed up and want a do over".
But that sounds better than, "geez, I f*cked up, oh well, whatever." doesn't it?
"Republicans run for office saying that the government doesn't work, then they get elected, and they prove it." -- Al Franken
Al Beback wrote:
But that sounds better than, "geez, I f*cked up, oh well, whatever." doesn't it?
no.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Al Beback wrote:
But that sounds better than, "geez, I f*cked up, oh well, whatever." doesn't it?
no.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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So you don't mind transferring money from your pocket (tax dollars) to executive bonuses for those whose companies are needing to beg from the government? If these were merely companies (public or private) deciding how to spend their profits or capital, I would agree that they answer only to the owners (shareholders), but when you have had to beg billions from the taxpayers, maybe not.
Rob Graham wrote:
don't mind transferring money from your pocket (tax dollars) to executive bonu
I do. It shouldn't happen. Sent emails to our two senators complaining about it. But those that took the money are no longer really truley commercial entities anymore. They have started journey down the wide road that Fannie May and Freddie Mac have completed. It is what it is. I can write my representatives and send money to conservative canidates, I can do nothing more.
MrPlankton
Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
no.
no? You sound like a Republican... oh, wait. The Audacity of Nope.[^] ;P
"Republicans run for office saying that the government doesn't work, then they get elected, and they prove it." -- Al Franken
Al Beback wrote:
You sound like a Republican
I'm a registered Democrat.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Rob Graham wrote:
don't mind transferring money from your pocket (tax dollars) to executive bonu
I do. It shouldn't happen. Sent emails to our two senators complaining about it. But those that took the money are no longer really truley commercial entities anymore. They have started journey down the wide road that Fannie May and Freddie Mac have completed. It is what it is. I can write my representatives and send money to conservative canidates, I can do nothing more.
MrPlankton
Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.
MrPlankton wrote:
It is what it is. I can write my representatives and send money to conservative canidates, I can do nothing more.
Suppose Spartacus had said that.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
no.
no? You sound like a Republican... oh, wait. The Audacity of Nope.[^] ;P
"Republicans run for office saying that the government doesn't work, then they get elected, and they prove it." -- Al Franken
If Republicans can't have a perfect bill to stimulate the economy, they'd rather have no economy at all Works for me...
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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MrPlankton wrote:
It is what it is. I can write my representatives and send money to conservative canidates, I can do nothing more.
Suppose Spartacus had said that.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
Suppose Spartacus had said that.
Hey, any time you want to start the bloody revolt, the rest of us will be right behind you, Sparty.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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MrPlankton wrote:
It is what it is. I can write my representatives and send money to conservative canidates, I can do nothing more.
Suppose Spartacus had said that.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Well ok, I can yet still be crucified for my opinions... :~ (now this is were Zeplin73, Karl and Ed for the first time give me a 5)
MrPlankton
Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.
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Oakman wrote:
Suppose Spartacus had said that.
Hey, any time you want to start the bloody revolt, the rest of us will be right behind you, Sparty.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Well ok, I can yet still be crucified for my opinions... :~ (now this is were Zeplin73, Karl and Ed for the first time give me a 5)
MrPlankton
Mexican boy: Viene la tormenta! Sarah Connor: What did he just say? Gas Station Attendant: He said there's a storm coming Sarah Connor: [sighs] I know.
MrPlankton wrote:
I can yet still be crucified for my opinions
Cross your legs, I only have one nail left.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Oakman wrote:
Suppose Spartacus had said that.
Hey, any time you want to start the bloody revolt, the rest of us will be right behind you, Sparty.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.