A similarity of pattern with the great depression of 1929

[Oakman]

Sahir Shah wrote:

A Republican in the white house for 8 years

Don't be silly. The Republican Party of the 20's was nothing at all like Bush and his cronies. Back then all the rednecks like Stan were Democrats.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Rob Graham]

How does one data point rise above mere coincidence? Thanks for trolling again.

[Sahir Shah]

Oakman wrote:

Back then all the rednecks like Stan were Democrats.

I thought that was during and immediately after the civil war ??

[Sahir Shah]

Aren't there any similarities between the economic policies of the republican party of the 1920's and the current one ? I thought there was :confused:

[Oakman]

Sahir Shah wrote:

I thought that was during and immediately after the civil war ??

It remained true until 1968 when George Wallace ran as a third party candidate and carried 5 southern states, thus denying Humphrey the election and giving it to Nixon. Four years later the Democrats made it clear that they didn't want the southern votes back by nominating George McGovern to run against Nixon who carefully courted the South. The Democrats remain a power in many southern states on a local and in some cases on a statewide level.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Lost User]

That is like saying the Tories and the Whigs were the same.

Visit http://www.notreadytogiveup.com/[^] and do something special today.

[Oakman]

Trollslayer wrote:

That is like saying the Tories and the Whigs were the same.

But the Tories wore whigs, didn't they? Powdered ones?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Stan Shannon]

Actually, oakman is historically full of shit as usual. The only party that has changed drastically in the last 70 years is the democrat party. Until about 1970 or so, both parties had distinct liberal and conservative wings. The democrats began activily shedding themesleve of southern whites and religious types in exchange for growing minorities and yuppie new ager types on the coasts. The reupublicans essentially remain the pro-business party they were founded as in the 1850's. The have been very reluctant to allow themselves to be controlled by conservatives. They did pick up the disaffected white southern democrats and religious types, but have never allowed them to gain control of the party. The Reagan era scared the core republican controllers, as much as it did the democrat controllers. Conservatives do have more influence in the republican party than in earlier eras, but no where near as much pwer as liberals have gained in the democrat party.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

If Hoover had merely followed the lead of Coolidge, there would have never been a great depression, an FDR presidency, and probably no WWII.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Actually, oakman is historically full of sh*t as usual.

It really frosts your cookies that I show you up so often, doesn't it. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Stan Shannon wrote:

The reupublicans essentially remain the pro-business party they were founded as in the 1850's

The Republican Party was created in 1854 to oppose the Kansas-Nebraska Act that would have permitted the expansion of slavery into Kansas. The Republicans then embraced additional goals, emphasizing higher education, banking, railroads, industry and cities, while promising free homesteads to farmers. The GOP vigorously argued that free-market labor was superior to slavery and the "very foundation of civic virtue and true American values."

Stan Shannon wrote:

They did pick up the disaffected white southern democrats and religious types, but have never allowed them to gain control of the party.

Which Republican President was it that won without carrying the south? Which Republican President was it that won without coming out four-square against abortion?

Stan Shannon wrote:

The Reagan era scared the core republican controllers, as much as it did the democrat controllers.

These "controllers" are, of course, all Marxist Fascist Anti-Christian European Illuminati, right? (Did I leave out any of your buzz words?)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

It really frosts your cookies that I show you up so often, doesn't it.

Not at all. I simply think you have a very poor, self serving, understanding of history.

Oakman wrote:

The Republican Party was created in 1854 to oppose the Kansas-Nebraska Act that would have permitted the expansion of slavery into Kansas. The Republicans then embraced additional goals, emphasizing higher education, banking, railroads, industry and cities, while promising free homesteads to farmers. The GOP vigorously argued that free-market labor was superior to slavery and the "very foundation of civic virtue and true American values."

Or, as I said, pro-business. The republicans saw the agrarian, slave holding, south as a threat to a government friendly towards industrial expansion within the US. It was purely business for them. They merely took advantage of a growing abolitionist sentiment to help get someone elected who would serve to bring the entire issus to a head.

Oakman wrote:

Which Republican President was it that won without carrying the south? Which Republican President was it that won without coming out four-square against abortion?

None. But relying upon conservatives has not translated into conservatives controlling the republican agenda in the same way that liberals have gained control of the democrat agenda. The republicans are not a conservative party. They are a party which reluctantly gives political access to groups who would otherwise would be entirely disenfranchised - the very groups whcih once defined Amcerican civilization.

Oakman wrote:

These "controllers" are, of course, all Marxist Fascist Anti-Christian European Illuminati, right? (Did I leave out any of your buzz words?)

No, they are mostly country club blue bloods. They are staunchly anti-communist, but have little use for the conservative populism which they depend upon to have any political power at all. The Bush family is a perfect example of that.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Christian Graus]

Stan Shannon wrote:

The democrats began activily shedding themesleve of southern whites and religious types in exchange for growing minorities and yuppie new ager types on the coasts.

Do you mean when they shed their initial position as the party of racism ?

Stan Shannon wrote:

They did pick up the disaffected white southern democrats and religious types, but have never allowed them to gain control of the party.

So the Republican stance on abortion, or God for that matter, is part of it's focus on being the 'pro-business' party ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Christian Graus]

Stan Shannon wrote:

probably no WWII.

So, the US was able to quell discontent in Germany, and stop Hitler, if only the Republicans were there to talk them out of their global introspectiveness at the time ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Stan Shannon]

I think it is arguable that if the US had not been locked in a crippling depression through out the '30s it would have been far less likely that either Germany or Japan would have gotten quite so out of control. Fascism (or communism) would never have had the appeal it had if capitalism had been more robust and dominant economically during that period. Things would certainly have played out differently then they did.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

Christian Graus wrote:

Do you mean when they shed their initial position as the party of racism ?

I mean when they actively began courting minorities and using race to control the political agenda in precisely the same way they had previously used religion. It was a purposeful strategy by the leftist elements of the party to rid themselves of their conservative elements and gain uncontested control of the democrat party. The issue of race itself could have been resolved in a far less confrontational manner merely by appropriate amendments to the constitution and interpretations of existing amendments. Most of the violence of the civil rights era was orchestrated for precisely the affect it had - to play out in front of telivision cameras.

Christian Graus wrote:

So the Republican stance on abortion, or God for that matter, is part of it's focus on being the 'pro-business' party ?

No, its focus is to attract more conservative voters, abandoned by the democrats, so the party will have the political power to promote pro-business legislation. Without conservatives, the republicans would not have won anything since Coolidge.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Christian Graus]

But Germany was the one country who, through the reparations of WWI, would have been having a tough time, no matter what the economic conditions, surely ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Stan Shannon]

Agreed, and some kind of violence was probably inevitable. But, again, if a fully functioning free market system had been roaring along at the time as an viable alternative model, fascism, hence Hitler and Mussolini, would probably have had far fewer supporters.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[JimmyRopes]

Oakman wrote:

Back then all the rednecks like Stan were Democrats

Until Lyndon Johnson got the civil rights bill through congress.

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