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  4. Xenophobia

Xenophobia

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  • C Chris Austin

    And yet we westerners are supposed to welcome all these fruits that come with globalization and the view of labor as being human capitol. Like I said, I see it as very short sighted esp. if you care at all for the long term health of your country or even neighborhood.

    Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

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    Lost User
    wrote on last edited by
    #43

    (Edited my previous post to you, however...) Globalization brings corporate responsibilities that are too distant from the ordinary worker and outside of their sphere of influence. So yes, you are right in your last sentence.

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    • C Chris Austin

      Richard A. Abbott wrote:

      are you happy with the numbers of Mexicans working (legally or illegally) in USA, and their respective conditions of employment that may in fact be to the detriment of your own country's local all American citizens?

      No. I despise the way it has worked out and I take almost painful (and unpopular) steps to make sure my contractors and handymen are on the up and up.

      Richard A. Abbott wrote:

      In other words, are your local all American citizens being priced out of their own local employment market by such Mexican "imports"?

      I don't know about being priced out. But, I can say I have seen it cause a real downward price pressure on certain jobs and work. As a consumer, I guess I am supposed to be pleased with this. But, as someone who likes to plan things long term I see it as terribly short-sighted and harmful.

      Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

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      Oakman
      wrote on last edited by
      #44

      Chris Austin wrote:

      I take almost painful (and unpopular) steps to make sure my contractors and handymen are on the up and up.

      I am proud to have made the aquaintance, however cybernetically, of someone who walks the walk as well as talking the talk. ^5

      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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      • M martin_hughes

        This whole situation seems very familiar: A cack-handed, ineffective Labour Government sinking in popularity daily, a bungled economy, anti-European feeling, a rapidly worsening exchange rate, wide-spread industrial action, a general feeling of discontent... now where did we see this before? Ah, that's right. The 70's.

        My Bookmarks I clicked the link. In an instant I was transported 15 years back in time.

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        Dalek Dave
        wrote on last edited by
        #45

        Cured by the Blessed Margaret! I don't see Her this time :(

        ------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

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        • L Lost User

          Whay are Total in the UK? Is it because they can take advantage of UK labour laws that they cant in France? Dont pretend though that the French market is open as you suggest. It isnt.

          Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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          Oakman
          wrote on last edited by
          #46

          fat_boy wrote:

          Dont pretend though that the French market is open as you suggest. It isnt.

          Here I go again, giving you a 5. I need a drink after that!

          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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          • D Dalek Dave

            I have told this before, but is worth a repost... I received a call from what is obviously an Indian Call Centre, and a chap claiming to be called Ken. "Is that really your name" I asked. "No, but we find it better than our own names which are often harder to pronounce" cometh the reply. "OK, so you have started this call by lying to me, what makes you think anything else you say will be believed?" CLICK

            ------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

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            Chris Austin
            wrote on last edited by
            #47

            Dalek Dave wrote:

            "Is that really your name" I asked.

            :) I say something like that or lie in my best Texas Draw that my name is "Sanjay"

            Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

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            • M martin_hughes

              This whole situation seems very familiar: A cack-handed, ineffective Labour Government sinking in popularity daily, a bungled economy, anti-European feeling, a rapidly worsening exchange rate, wide-spread industrial action, a general feeling of discontent... now where did we see this before? Ah, that's right. The 70's.

              My Bookmarks I clicked the link. In an instant I was transported 15 years back in time.

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              Oakman
              wrote on last edited by
              #48

              martin_hughes wrote:

              now where did we see this before?

              the 30's?

              Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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              • O Oakman

                Chris Austin wrote:

                I take almost painful (and unpopular) steps to make sure my contractors and handymen are on the up and up.

                I am proud to have made the aquaintance, however cybernetically, of someone who walks the walk as well as talking the talk. ^5

                Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

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                Chris Austin
                wrote on last edited by
                #49

                Thanks. You have no idea how many dirty looks I've gotten or how many times I've been told to f. off after telling a general contractor to make sure that anybody working on a property of mine is legal. I even had one guy tell me he was going to file a discrimination lawsuit against me. The worst was when our own house was being repaired from a burst pipe and I had to kick the drywall people out of my house after warning the general contractor. It caused a huge delay and more problems with the insurance company.

                Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

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                • D Dalek Dave

                  Cured by the Blessed Margaret! I don't see Her this time :(

                  ------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

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                  Lost User
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #50

                  Dalek Dave wrote:

                  Cured by the Blessed Margaret!

                  Although she did well in the reform of Trade Union powers, unfortunately, with her went into relative oblivion, a large slice of British Manufacturing Industry.

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                  • D Dalek Dave

                    It is true. They are being given food and accomodation and this is deemed part of the remuneration, this is a) Legal and b) undercutting the final Wage bill. (The accommodation is charged at a fixed rate, and is cheaper than the locals pay for theirs, so it reflects a difference in wage costs and benefits.) Please read the details of these things before you start attacking the concerns of the locals!

                    ------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson

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                    KaRl
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #51

                    Dalek Dave wrote:

                    They are being given food and accomodation and this is deemed part of the remuneration, this is a) Legal and b) undercutting the final Wage bill.

                    European workers are protected by the National Minimum Wage Act 1998 like any local worker, see http://ec.europa.eu/employment_social/labour_law/docs/2006/posting/united_kingdom_en.pdf[^]. They cannot be paid below this national minimum wage.

                    There are two things that one must get used to or one will find life unendurable: the damages of time and injustices of men Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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                    • L Lost User

                      Whay are Total in the UK? Is it because they can take advantage of UK labour laws that they cant in France? Dont pretend though that the French market is open as you suggest. It isnt.

                      Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

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                      KaRl
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #52

                      fat_boy wrote:

                      Whay are Total in the UK?

                      Maybe because there's oil in the North Sea[^]?

                      fat_boy wrote:

                      Dont pretend though that the French market is open as you suggest.

                      I don't, you missed my point.

                      Where do you expect us to go when the bombs fall? Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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                      • K KaRl

                        The wave of wildcat strike action that has swept across the UK escalated today as hundreds more workers walked out in the protest against foreign labour.[^] Now that the crisis become strong the old nationalist and xenophobic daemons come back. These guys just forget UK is part of the EU, and workers of the EU are free to work where they want. The first thing they should ask is that UK should leave the EU... Next, that movement started at the Lindsey oil refinery in Killingholme. This refinery is owned by TotalFinaElf, a French group. They ask a foreign company to take locals only. Following their logic, Total should play it nationalistic too and not invest a penny in UK - After all it's like stealing French jobs, isn't it?

                        If you kill a whale, you get Greenpeace and Jacques Cousteau on your back, but wipe out sardines and you get a canning subsidy!

                        Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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                        Ilion
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #53

                        Ka?l wrote:

                        Now that the crisis become strong the old nationalist and xenophobic daemons come back.

                        It's not yet ... but it will be once your sort have finished.

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                        • R R Giskard Reventlov

                          You're quite wrong to see this as xenophobia or nationalism: it is neither. Not that I am condoning the action: far from it but it has a far more prosaic explanation: money. It is entirely right and proper (given the laws under which we live) that anyone from any part of europe has the right to work anywhere else. The error was that whomever negotiated the contract should have been more sensitive to local needs and could have written a clause into the contract that local labour should be used first, where appropriate. This is no different to a business based in LA stating that local labour would get first dibs: it is sensible. However, if no one can be found locally then by all means look further afield. No one in the US would think this wrong and neither should we. Further, if times were better and jobs more plentiful this protest would simply not happen: these men are frightened and fearful of the future and whilst I disagree with the strikes/protests I understand their frustration. The PM, a died in the wool socialist, said that "British jobs should be for British people"; a very stupid thing to say especially given that most of these men probably vote labour! What you should be bemoaning is the utter stupidity and poor leadership of our government: the sooner they go the better.

                          me, me, me

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                          Ilion
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #54

                          digital man wrote:

                          It is entirely right and proper (given the laws under which we live) that anyone from any part of europe has the right to work anywhere else.

                          Nonsense. "Europe" (which doesn't even exist, anyway!) is not the USA.

                          digital man wrote:

                          The error was that whomever negotiated the contract should have been more sensitive to local needs and could have written a clause into the contract that local labour should be used first, where appropriate.

                          Socialistic piffle ... which inherently and fundamentally contradicts your previous assertion, even were the previous assertion not nonsense. This illustrates the fundamental problem with "liberalism," it has no principled core; "liberalism" wants socialism (which desire is itself bad enough), but must constantly make exceptions to socialism, and has no principles by which to make those exceptions, and so they must always be made on-the-fly.

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                          • C Chris Austin

                            Thanks. You have no idea how many dirty looks I've gotten or how many times I've been told to f. off after telling a general contractor to make sure that anybody working on a property of mine is legal. I even had one guy tell me he was going to file a discrimination lawsuit against me. The worst was when our own house was being repaired from a burst pipe and I had to kick the drywall people out of my house after warning the general contractor. It caused a huge delay and more problems with the insurance company.

                            Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long

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                            O Offline
                            Oakman
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #55

                            Chris Austin wrote:

                            I even had one guy tell me he was going to file a discrimination lawsuit against me.

                            It would be funny, if it wasn't tragic.

                            Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

                            1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • K KaRl

                              The wave of wildcat strike action that has swept across the UK escalated today as hundreds more workers walked out in the protest against foreign labour.[^] Now that the crisis become strong the old nationalist and xenophobic daemons come back. These guys just forget UK is part of the EU, and workers of the EU are free to work where they want. The first thing they should ask is that UK should leave the EU... Next, that movement started at the Lindsey oil refinery in Killingholme. This refinery is owned by TotalFinaElf, a French group. They ask a foreign company to take locals only. Following their logic, Total should play it nationalistic too and not invest a penny in UK - After all it's like stealing French jobs, isn't it?

                              If you kill a whale, you get Greenpeace and Jacques Cousteau on your back, but wipe out sardines and you get a canning subsidy!

                              Fold with us! ¤ flickr

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                              G Offline
                              GuyThiebaut
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #56

                              ARE YOU CAPABLE OF LISTENING TO ANY OPINION IN OPPOSITION TO YOURS? Yes I know the above is in caps I am freakin' mad at your intransigent stubborn arrogance!

                              Continuous effort - not strength or intelligence - is the key to unlocking our potential.(Winston Churchill)
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