We must act immediately to stop the Weapons of Mass Destruction! oh wait this time I mean Economic Meltdown

Le centriste

There is a difference: there really is an economic meltdown. On the other hand, nobody were able to find WMDs at all.

Rob Graham

Oakman wrote:

GOP Sen. Johnny Isakson of Tennessee

I must correct you and simultaneously apologize for Isakson the Idiot from Georgia...

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

I must correct you and simultaneously apologize for Isakson the Idiot from Georgia...

I guess I was thinking that Johnny was sampling too much of Tennessee's best-known export: Jack Daniels.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Rob Graham

Le Centriste wrote:

there really is an economic meltdown.

At this point, it is largely caused by the incredible amount of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt that is being spewed forth by all our leaders. In economics, as in medicine: First, DO NO HARM. This bill is too ill considered, too full of pet projects and waste, and to far too likely to cause more harm than good.

Oakman

John Carson wrote:

Things have changed a little since last summer.

Of course. These days, Summers's paychecks are signed by the president. Once you work for the Prez, you toe the Prez's line - or hadn't you noticed? Summers's real opinion of the package will not be known until he leaves the White House - which may be sooner than originally thought, if it is what I suspect it may be.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Le centriste

I thought it was largely due to the mortgage bubble, but I am no economist.

Rob Graham

I just wrote the dummy, asking that he vote against this bill, and withdraw his idiotic tax proposal.

Oakman

Le Centriste wrote:

there really is an economic meltdown.

The economic crisis, like WMD earlier, is the excuse for what is being proposed. Invading Iraq was a bad idea, period. (Just as Obama said.) and funding programs that won't kick in for three or four years but which will require additional funding every year into perpetuity is equally stupid.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

I just wrote the dummy, asking that he vote against this bill, and withdraw his idiotic tax proposal.

100 to 0 in favor. Can you believe it? The way to get rich is to make things that other people want to buy. The way to get poor is to buy things you can't afford to own. How bleeping hard is that for the U.S. Senate to understand?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

modified on Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:04 AM

John Carson

Oakman wrote:

Of course. These days, Summers's paychecks are signed by the president. Once you work for the Prez, you toe the Prez's line - or hadn't you noticed? Summers's real opinion of the package will not be known until he leaves the White House - which may be sooner than originally thought, if it is what I suspect it may be.

I'm sure it isn't what you suspect. As I have previously claimed, the large majority of serious opinion is that it is imperative that a lot of money be spent quickly. Nitpicking over 50 million here or there is just a distraction: a case of making a big issue about small things. The other side mainly consists of the Rush Limbaugh know-nothing crowd. The Australian Prime Minister, you will be fascinated to know, has just announced a huge (relative to the economy) stimulus package: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/treasury-backs-rudd-rescue-plan/2009/02/05/1233423405294.html[^]

John Carson

Rob Graham

In the beginning it was, now, not so much. The proposed size of this bailout bill is bigger than any estimate of the total value of every bad mortgage in existence. And Isakson's $15K tax credit is gasoline on the fire, if you believe bad mortgages are the cause. The list of utter crap in this stimulus bill is rediculous. It is no more than an excuse for an orgy of spending on pet projects (only about 20% infrastructure, practically no immediate jobs relief, but money for local pork. The current proposal, combined with the $700B already approved, amounts to a ridiculous $9718 for every US taxpayer.

BoneSoft

From last week: Senator Warns White House Will 'Create Crisis' and 'Panic' to Push Stimulus[^] By the way, this one still cracks me up: Peloci promises no pork in stimulus[^].

Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.

modified on Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:11 AM

Oakman

John Carson wrote:

Nitpicking over 50 million here or there is just a distraction:

How about 300 - 400 billion. Is that a big enough number to be worth your notice?

John Carson wrote:

The other side mainly consists of the Rush Limbaugh know-nothing crowd.

Sorry, but that is no longer true. More and more economists, including nobel laureates are saying that the package should be pared down to goals that are, essentially, what Summers defined last summer including: BURTON ABRAMS, Univ. of Delaware, DOUGLAS ADIE, Ohio University, RYAN AMACHER, Univ. of Texas at Arlington, J.J.ARIAS, Georgia College & State University, HOWARD BAETJER, JR., Towson University, STACIE BECK, Univ. of Delaware, DON BELLANTE, Univ. of South Florida, JAMES BENNETT, George Mason University, BRUCE BENSON, Florida State University, SANJAI BHAGAT, Univ. of Colorado at Boulder, MARK BILS, Univ. of Rochester, ALBERTO BISIN, New York University, WALTER BLOCK, Loyola University New Orleans, CECIL BOHANON, Ball State University, MICHELE BOLDRIN,Washington University in St. Louis, DONALD BOOTH, Chapman University, MICHAEL BORDO, Rutgers University, SAMUEL BOSTAPH, Univ. of Dallas, SCOTT BRADFORD, Brigham Young University, GENEVIEVE BRIAND, Eastern Washington University, GEORGE BROWER, Moravian College, JAMES BUCHANAN, Nobel laureate, RICHARD BURDEKIN, Claremont McKenna College, HENRY BUTLER, Northwestern University, WILLIAM BUTOS, Trinity College, PETER CALCAGNO, College of Charleston, BRYAN CAPLAN, George Mason University, ART CARDEN, Rhodes College, JAMES CARDON, Brigham Young University, DUSTIN CHAMBERS, Salisbury University, EMILY CHAMLEE-WRIGHT, Beloit College, V.V. CHARI, Univ. of Minnesota, BARRY CHISWICK, Univ. of Illinois at Chicago, LAWRENCE CIMA, John Carroll University, J.R. CLARK, Univ. of Tennessee at Chattanooga, GIAN LUCA CLEMENTI, New York University, R.MORRIS COATS, Nicholls State University, JOHN COCHRAN, Metropolitan State College, JOHN COCHRANE, Univ. of Chicago, JOHN COGAN, Hoover Institution, Stanford University, JOHN COLEMAN, Duke University, BOYD COLLIER, Tarleton State University, ROBERT COLLINGE, Univ. of Texas at San Antonio, LEE COPPOCK, Univ. of Virginia, MARIO CRUCINI, Vanderbilt University, CHRISTOPHER CULP, Univ. of Chicago, KIRBY CUNDIFF, Northeastern State University, ANTONY DAVIES, Duquesne University, JOHN DAWSON, Appalachian State University, CLARENCE DEITSCH, Ball State University, ARTH

Le centriste

Rob Graham wrote:

The current proposal, combined with the $700B already approved, amounts to a ridiculous $9718 for every US taxpayer.

That is ridiculous, since this is American people money given to the big banks so they can lend it back to the same people, with interest.

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

And not one of them has a radio talk show

pesky damned facts. re: Summers / Volker[^] Seems Comrade Obama hasn't quite figured out this POTUS thingy.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

Le Centriste wrote:

American people money given to the big banks so they can lend it back to the same people, with interest

Nope, this is American people money given to the big banks so they can have parties in Las Vegas and go to the Superbowl.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Chris Austin · modified on Thursday, February 5, 2009 10:04 AM

Oakman wrote:

How bleeping hard is that for the U.S. Senate to understand?

I just don't get these people. They have obviously set aside common sense. Have they even looked at statistics that show the affects of these no/low down mortgages have vs a traditional note? There is a reason that Fanny Mae eliminated the 3% seller contribution down payments; they were 3X as likely to be foreclosed on vs even the buyer putting down only 10%, Now, they have just said in essence that it is OK to pay your MasterCard bill with your Visa. Plus, I know firsthand, that no one is willing to buy notes from the originator these days without a minimum of 10% down and 3 months to a year of seasoning.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --?

Rob Graham

More frightening, or enraging, depending on ones perspective, is the $350B has already been parceled out, yet there is little sign that the banks have even begun to increase lending. Perhaps the wrong Banks got all the money, or maybe they didn't tell us what they really wanted to do with it...

wolfbinary

JPMC actually came out and said they won't say what was done with it. Most of the banks are acting that way. I don't think they even know where it went. It just went into the general fund and that's it.

Reagan Conservative

Jon --- you are starting to sound like me! As I said in my "whine" post a week or so ago, when is "the change" going to start taking place?? This is worse than "the same old politics of the past". It has reached a new height in less than 3 weeks on the job.

AF Pilot