AP analysis of Obama's Monday presser

Reagan Conservative

I see the investment community has voted --- -370 points, or so. Congrats, Mr. President, you seem to be getting your 'legislation' that you wanted. Seems there are quite a few who would rather not have it. Just where is the 'stimulus' in this piece of crap? Please show us how many jobs have been saved in a) the 1st 6 months, and b) the 1st year. I can't wait to see the numbers! ALL YOU WHO VOTED FOR OBAMA!!! --- Please tell us where the 'stimulus' is in this bill, besides the tax breaks and the welfare disguised as "earned income credit". I'm talking about the plans to spend this money that is going to create those 4 million jobs.

AF Pilot

Rob Graham

Obama's not the problem, just the poster child. Ths started in 2006, in response to the republican Party's complete abrogation of its ideals. We ended up trading one set of thieves for another.

Reagan Conservative

He may not be the entire problem, but while he is President, the buck stops there! Just like Bush! Let's see how gleefully he signs this bill of pork. Maybe he'll use a pen filled with BBQ sauce for ink?

AF Pilot

John Carson

Reagan Conservative wrote:

Well, when this "stimulus" package doesn't "stimulate" anything more than inflation, will Obama stand up and say "I messed up again?" Good luck to us all --- we're going to need it!

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The country will need luck if the likes of you have any influence over the direction of economic policy. Worrying that the stimulus policy will stimulate inflation is akin to worrying that giving food to an underweight, malnourished person will produce obesity.

John Carson

modified on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:49 PM

Reagan Conservative · modified on Tuesday, February 10, 2009 4:49 PM

And your economics degree is from where? How the hell do you think the government is going to be able to AUCTION OFF all the T-Bills that are going to be needed to fund 2-3 TRILLION MORE DOLLARS, John? You think that China and the rest of the world is going to line up to buy bonds paying 0.2 - 0.4% interest?? You can criticize me WHEN AND IF inflation remains a non-factor. Maybe you should read up on what other economists have to say about this bill of pork. As I said earlier in another post, show me where any JOBS are going to be created from this legislation, especially the 4 million Obama spouted off when he was campaigning? And now that we are headed for Big Brother telling all of us what kind of health care we can use, I hope you don't get some disease that costs a lot of money to cure, cause Big Brother is going to tell you that you need to find a cure that is less expensive. Geez, to have some bureaucrats in Washington telling me what I can have as far as medical care is concerned, I think I'd rather trust my own doctor --- how about you?

AF Pilot

Oakman

Reagan Conservative wrote:

Jon, I cannot wait another 6 months to not whine about this administration!

Hey don't apologise to me - I never promised you'd keep quiet, I just tried to help you fulfill your promise. :cool: Nor do I blame you. I am,frankly, amazed at how much crap has come out of the White House in the short time since his innaugeration. I am not sure that very many people expected him to swing this far left this fast. 'Twasn't that long ago that Stan was saying that he knew he had to move to the center to govern and now it appears that he either doesn't know it, or is determined to move the country to the left. His remarks of the last couple of days have angered and saddened me. Many years ago I began saying that the problem with the American electoral system was that it had evolved from electing the best man to electing the best campaigner. In a few short weeks, he has reminded me of my, far from unique, observation. :( Not that long ago they were talking about how Rob Emanuel was going to keep Pelosi in line for Obama. Now I am beginning to think that his job is to keep the President in line for her.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Reagan Conservative wrote:

Maybe he'll use a pen filled with BBQ sauce for ink?

You actually made me laugh out loud. And given my mood, that's amazing. Thanks!

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Reagan Conservative

I have to agree totally to your viewpoint. I also have to admit that I thought he would be a lot smarter, politically, than he has so far shown. But this bill of pork that is inevitably going to become law is a travesty. How and where does this bill create any jobs, much less the 4 million he said would be created while campaigning? Mr. John Carson doesn't feel that this bill is inflationary in any sense of the word. If I am to believe the financial advisers I have been paying for the last few years, it is just a matter of time. Be prepared to put your stocks and bonds in money market funds. I feel certain that we are about to see the second coming of the Jimmy Carter years again.

AF Pilot

Reagan Conservative

Always glad to inject a bit of humor when all else is going all to hell.

AF Pilot

Shog9 0

Reagan Conservative wrote:

And your economics degree is from where?

*psst*! You're supposed to toss out your own credentials when challenging someone else's opinion based on their lack of such paper. Otherwise, you just come off sounding like an elitist hypocrite...

Shog9 0

Reagan Conservative wrote:

while he is President, the buck stops there! Just like Bush!

:laugh:

Reagan Conservative

Thanks for the warning --- unfortunately, I don't have an economics degree either, but I do read avidly the opinions of other people who do have degrees in economics and are savvy investors. I trust those people who put up their own money a lot more than I do some academic economist.

AF Pilot

Oakman

Reagan Conservative wrote:

How and where does this bill create any jobs, much less the 4 million he said would be created while campaigning?

At $300,000 plus per job promised, the American people could turn about six mil over to me. My business partner and I could have our new company "shovel ready" a helluvalot sooner than many, maybe most, of the projects he is talking about funding. And they'd be long-term jobs for American citizens.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Reagan Conservative wrote:

when all else is going all to hell

As Shaw pointed out, the reason to go to hell is the quality of the companionship. Kinda like the SB ;)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

John Carson

Reagan Conservative wrote:

And your economics degree is from where?

Are you asking about my bachelor's degree, master's degree or Ph.D? The answers are Sydney University, Monash University and Sydney University respectively.

Reagan Conservative wrote:

How the hell do you think the government is going to be able to AUCTION OFF all the T-Bills that are going to be needed to fund 2-3 TRILLION MORE DOLLARS, John? You think that China and the rest of the world is going to line up to buy bonds paying 0.2 - 0.4% interest?? You can criticize me WHEN AND IF inflation remains a non-factor. Maybe you should read up on what other economists have to say about this bill of pork. As I said earlier in another post, show me where any JOBS are going to be created from this legislation, especially the 4 million Obama spouted off when he was campaigning?

The return on government bonds is considerably higher than the return on stocks over the last year or so. The question is a red herring anyway, so I won't bother to analyse it in detail. If the spending is not entirely financed by borrowing and to some extent the government just "prints money", then that still is not inflationary. Inflation becomes a problem when there is excessive demand, i.e., when people are willing and able to buy more goods and services than are available at existing prices. The current problem is exactly the opposite: not enough demand. Fearing excess demand at the moment is, like I said, just like being afraid of obesity when providing food to someone who is underweight and malnourished. These constant references to "pork" are just an ideological obsession and show a lack of understanding. In the current economic circumstances, any government spending is stimulative. It would be stimulative to fund the infamous "bridge to nowhere". If you build a bridge, then you employ construction workers, steel makers, transport workers, architects, accountants and many others. These in turn spend their pay, which provides employment for retailers, manufacturers and so on. The point is that when anything is bought, that provides employment for whoever is involved in producing that good or service and their spending of their incomes provides a secondary stimulus. The economy is suffering from a lack of demand and the government must step in to boost demand. As to your suggestion that I should "read up on what other economists have to sa

Oakman

John Carson wrote:

any government spending is stimulative

But some government spending is more stimulative than others, isn't it? That Bridge to nowhere, if it was shovel-ready, would do far more for our economy than some of the projects in the package which will not require funding until 1911, and I imagine it would do better at stimulating the economy than setting up a medical oversite board to make sure that senior citizens didn't get better healthcare than they deserved.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

John Carson

Oakman wrote:

But some government spending is more stimulative than others, isn't it?

Yes, absolutely. I don't wish to defend the spending package in all its detail. It is a political compromise bill.

John Carson