Change

[Oakman]

Bassam Saoud wrote:

I understand your point of view but the world is very inter connected. You have american workers working in Foriegn countries that may be affected by such a change of policy. The answer in my humble opinion is to monitor the policy instead of shutting down the borders.

More than 11 million Americans are looking for work. Yet our government allows more than 1.5 million foreign workers a year to legally enter the U.S. for jobs. That doesn't include millions of illegal foreign workers. Since H1bs can stay in this country legally for six years, 9 million jobs would open up if we sent 'em all home. The entire justification for the H1B program was because there weren't enough trained Americans to fill those jobs. It was less than the truth then and it is a total lie, now. Most countries have very stringent and very stringently enforced laws about hiring foreigners. And most employers are allowed to discriminate against anyone who does not speak like a native. Why the hell should we be any different???

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Oakman]

Mike Gaskey wrote:

I do but

How politically incorrect of you. We may have to throw you out of the Jummy Carter fan club.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Tim Craig]

BoneSoft wrote:

However, if he could get through an interview without saying "uh" and "yaknow" 400,000 times, that actually would surprise me.

Yeah, I bet your really miss that divinely inspired oratory of Dub. :laugh:

"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

[Lost User]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Canada

Yeah, we're really failed all right. My God, the sheer horror of our lives up here defies imagination. :rolleyes:

- F

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

The only agent of change we have had in a long time was from George W. Bush.

See Boney, I told you the right wing was trying to set up their own little regimnented heaven. Even Stan says so,

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Christian Graus]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Cuba

Cuba's biggest issue is the USA How has Canada failed ? How has China ? I mean, they kind of own you nowadays.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Oakman]

Bassam Saoud wrote:

Basially each person is appointed a doctor which you see first and based on your case will be redirected to specialist

Sounds like most HMOs in this country.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Healthcare should be an exchange between two free people - the patient and the doctor unencumbered

Would that include the insurance company and/or the employer?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Oakman]

Christian Graus wrote:

I mean, they kind of own you nowadays

Bush really suckered them into thinking they were buying something valuable when they bought all our dollars, didn't he? Like Zep says, when the dawn comes and our bond rating drops to AA, then the egg foo yung will hit the chopsticks for sure.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Mike Gaskey]

Oakman wrote:

How politically incorrect of you.

I did try.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

[Stan Shannon]

Christian Graus wrote:

Cuba's biggest issue is the USA

Sure, Christian, Castro had nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:

Christian Graus wrote:

How has Canada failed ?

Canada is nothing but a welfare state. It can no longer field an army worth the name, it has no real economy. Is it doing pretty well as a wellfare state? I suppose, but that won't last much longer. It will continue to canabalize its economy until it finally collapses. It is inevitable, especially once we have been Obamatized.

Christian Graus wrote:

How has China ?

I said Communist China. The Chinese were intelligent enough to accept that they needed a new economic model if not a social one. But, as others have pointed out, they may have gotten more in the bargin than they bargained for. The US and China are in a mutual death spiral. If one goes, they both go.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

I told you the right wing was trying to set up their own little regimnented heaven. Even Stan says so,

Bush did nothing our Presidents have not been doing since at least the Civil War. He did nothing unconstitutional, and if he did, the congress is the party responsible for letting it happen. The presidents primary constitutional obligation is defending the country, not kow towing to every court decision on some wacko interpretation of civil rights such as being enodwed by our creator with an unalianable right to use a telephone.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

Would that include the insurance company and/or the employer?

In my idea world there would be no such thing as health insurance and no need for employers to provide it. We used not to have any of that and things worked fine.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

We used not to have any of that and things worked fine.

Yep. We didn't have any of that fancy healthcare either. Doctors were barbers and drugists sold snake oil to cure whatever ailed you.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Miszou]

It's been about 10 years since I lived in the UK, but as far as I remember, you are free to change your doctor at any time, for any reason. There's so much rampant BS about how terrible national health care is. I'm not going to get into an argument about it, but in England, if you don't want national health care, you can simply pay a private company for it, same as in the US. It's the same as anything in life - if you want the best, you have to pay for it. That said, you can walk into any hospital and be treated, no questions asked and no money taken.

The StartPage Randomizer - The Windows Cheerleader - Twitter

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Bush did nothing our Presidents have not been doing since at least the Civil War.

The Supremes have done nothing they haven't been doing since about the time of the War of 1812, yet you rail against their unconstitutionality incessantly.

Stan Shannon wrote:

He did nothing unconstitutional, and if he did,

Do you want to have your cake or eat it?

Stan Shannon wrote:

The presidents primary constitutional obligation is defending the country,

I heard the oath given recently. There's nothing in it about which part of the Constitution takes priority. And, in point of fact, the war powers are given by the Constitution to the Congress.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Oakman]

Mike Gaskey wrote:

I did try.

Well the good news is that the Supreme Committe has decided you can still be in the fan club, but you are going to have to give up your picture of Rosalynn in a bathing suit.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

[Christian Graus]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Sure, Christian, Castro had nothing to do with it

Yeah, Cuba would be in exactly the same state of poverty if it was allowed to import medicines, etc. The US has nothing to do with it.

Stan Shannon wrote:

Canada is nothing but a welfare stat

Canada has real welfare, as do most other countries. That this makes them failed right now, is a question for debate.

Stan Shannon wrote:

The Chinese were intelligent enough to accept that they needed a new economic model if not a social one

That was kind of my point - failure depends on your criteria. I'd hate to live in China, I don't pretend that their communist system is one that equates to freedom or equity. But, is that failure, or is their economic success, a guage of success in general ? Depends on your POV

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Christian Graus]

It definitely is different here. This just proves that life is more nuanced, I don't doubt that changes to health care COULD mean that would happen, if it's allowed to, or even if it's on the agenda at all. But, it's not a given.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Christian Graus]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Anyone who doesn't like that should go somewhere else.

So, it's still your position that the poor should be allowed to die, and get out of your way ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.