Ask God what your grade is you fascist bastard. [modified]
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Professor's an ass. If I were the kid, I'd put my student loans toward taking them to court. I was almost joking a couple months ago when I said soon you'd be seeing protests for Christian rights. It's becoming less of a joke.
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I laughed when I read story, but I was not surprised.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the Constitution -
MrPlankton wrote:
What say you? Professor, right or wrong?
Now if only the website didn't suck scissors sideways, I might have been able to read the story. I don't fucking want to save any kids from poverty today! Asshole popups websites bite.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
Now if only the website didn't suck scissors sideways, I might have been able to read the story. I don't f***ing want to save any kids from poverty today! a**hole popups websites bite.
I closed the window for just that reason, story completely unread.
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Oakman wrote:
Now if only the website didn't suck scissors sideways, I might have been able to read the story. I don't f***ing want to save any kids from poverty today! a**hole popups websites bite.
I closed the window for just that reason, story completely unread.
sorry about that, updated post to different site.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the Constitution -
I laughed when I read story, but I was not surprised.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the ConstitutionI wasn't surprised, but it just pissed me off. This kid wasn't doing anything wrong, and he's run out of school for having Christian views. Extremely unprofessional of the prof and the dean, and a reminder of the dangerous direction the "progressive" movement wants to push. This seems timely, How Democracies Become Tyrannies[^] It's a good read. Analyses some current events through Plato's Republic to good effect (I thought).
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Amazing. Looks like the First Amendment is once again under attack in the ivy-covered halls of academia. . .or is that still under attack.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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He has the right to speak. I have the right to ignore.
------------------------------------ "Your manuscript is both good and original. But the part that is good is not original, and the part that is original is not good." Dr Samuel Johnson
Dalek Dave wrote:
He has the right to speak. I have the right to ignore.
But in order to protect your right to ignore, it behooves you to defend his right to speak, doesn't it?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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Dalek Dave wrote:
He has the right to speak. I have the right to ignore.
But in order to protect your right to ignore, it behooves you to defend his right to speak, doesn't it?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
it behooves you to defend his right to speak
I always get confused about this one. Did they abridge is freedom of speech or did they just tell him you can't say that here and now because this is a class room that all these other people have paid for and we control the subject matter if we want to. However they did not try to stop him from going outside the class and speaking his mind. Or do I not understand the concept of the first amendment? Keep in mind I don't care if they are right or wrong, I'm only interested in clearing up the concept of our right to free speech. I mean, if you come in my house and say something I can tell you to shut up and leave. That does not stop you from going somewhere else and giving your speech.
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sorry about that, updated post to different site.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the Constitution -
I wasn't surprised, but it just pissed me off. This kid wasn't doing anything wrong, and he's run out of school for having Christian views. Extremely unprofessional of the prof and the dean, and a reminder of the dangerous direction the "progressive" movement wants to push. This seems timely, How Democracies Become Tyrannies[^] It's a good read. Analyses some current events through Plato's Republic to good effect (I thought).
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
From what I understand it took place in a "Catholic" school, and after proposition 8 was passed, which makes it even more remarkable. Thanks, for the link.
MrPlankton
The Second Amendment, the Reset Button on the Constitution -
Oakman wrote:
it behooves you to defend his right to speak
I always get confused about this one. Did they abridge is freedom of speech or did they just tell him you can't say that here and now because this is a class room that all these other people have paid for and we control the subject matter if we want to. However they did not try to stop him from going outside the class and speaking his mind. Or do I not understand the concept of the first amendment? Keep in mind I don't care if they are right or wrong, I'm only interested in clearing up the concept of our right to free speech. I mean, if you come in my house and say something I can tell you to shut up and leave. That does not stop you from going somewhere else and giving your speech.
led mike wrote:
Did they abridge is freedom of speech or did they just tell him you can't say that here and now because this is a class room that all these other people have paid for and we control the subject matter if we want to.
Your point is a good one. However, we are not dealing with a private university, but a public one - supported by large sums of taxpayers' money. Imho, this means that short of proving that he was inciting to riot, the first amendment should be taken into account by that teacher who was, for all intents and purposes, a governmental employee.
led mike wrote:
if you come in my house and say something I can tell you to shut up and leave.
But you cannot tell me to shut up and leave if I parade on the sidewalk in front of your house, no matter how offensive you might find my words. And, even if you convince a policeman to come, he should - as a governmental employee -- defend, not abrogate my right to announce that "Yngvi is a louse!" on the sidewalk.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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The prof should have pre-qualified what subjects were okay to talk about: he is also wrong to confront a student in the way it has been reported: that is out and out bullying. What the student spoke about is irrelevent, what the prof thinks about it, on a personal level, is also irrelevent; it is how the teacher dealt with it that should be at issue and, from my perspective, he looks to be in the wrong.
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I wasn't surprised, but it just pissed me off. This kid wasn't doing anything wrong, and he's run out of school for having Christian views. Extremely unprofessional of the prof and the dean, and a reminder of the dangerous direction the "progressive" movement wants to push. This seems timely, How Democracies Become Tyrannies[^] It's a good read. Analyses some current events through Plato's Republic to good effect (I thought).
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
BoneSoft wrote:
It's a good read
I thought so. However, it talks of a past seen through rose-colored glasses. I lived through the '50's - graduated from highschool in '61 - and I guarantee you that it was an unhappy time. Joe McCarthy and the American legion ran rampant over the freedom that Socrates symbolises, we came close to dropping the atomic bomb on China, Batman was pronounced a homosexual, and books were taken out of public libraries and burned. There was plenty of porn around, but you had to be a friend of the police chief or in the Elks club to get invited to a Saturday-night "smoker." Blacks were hung from trees for looking at white women and women who thought they were the equals of men in any way were condemned as dykes and whores. What made America great back then wasn't what she was, but in what she might have become. That is what I think we've lost in the last 50 years - our potential - and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the catalytic event wasn't Timothy Leary urging kids to turn on and drop out, it was Richard Nixon making our money worthless.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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led mike wrote:
Did they abridge is freedom of speech or did they just tell him you can't say that here and now because this is a class room that all these other people have paid for and we control the subject matter if we want to.
Your point is a good one. However, we are not dealing with a private university, but a public one - supported by large sums of taxpayers' money. Imho, this means that short of proving that he was inciting to riot, the first amendment should be taken into account by that teacher who was, for all intents and purposes, a governmental employee.
led mike wrote:
if you come in my house and say something I can tell you to shut up and leave.
But you cannot tell me to shut up and leave if I parade on the sidewalk in front of your house, no matter how offensive you might find my words. And, even if you convince a policeman to come, he should - as a governmental employee -- defend, not abrogate my right to announce that "Yngvi is a louse!" on the sidewalk.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
But you cannot tell me to shut up and leave if I parade on the sidewalk in front of your house
Yes that is my point. There is a difference, there is also a difference even in a public school class room. People are in charge of running them, they are responsible for what goes on in there. It's different. Again I am not saying the professor is correct in what he did, I am questioning if it is a matter of free speech as protected by the first amendment. I believe there is some doubt about it in this specific case.
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What if the students who were offended sued because the speech was allowed to go on? I don't think the prof should have said what he did either.
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Ah, the joys of AdBlock!
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What if the students who were offended sued because the speech was allowed to go on? I don't think the prof should have said what he did either.
Michael Moore offends the crap out of me. Can I sue? (offended students who have the rashness to sue should, at the very least, end up paying court costs and the speech makers legal fees, although adding horse-whipping would bring it closer to a just outcome).
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led mike wrote:
Did they abridge is freedom of speech or did they just tell him you can't say that here and now because this is a class room that all these other people have paid for and we control the subject matter if we want to.
Your point is a good one. However, we are not dealing with a private university, but a public one - supported by large sums of taxpayers' money. Imho, this means that short of proving that he was inciting to riot, the first amendment should be taken into account by that teacher who was, for all intents and purposes, a governmental employee.
led mike wrote:
if you come in my house and say something I can tell you to shut up and leave.
But you cannot tell me to shut up and leave if I parade on the sidewalk in front of your house, no matter how offensive you might find my words. And, even if you convince a policeman to come, he should - as a governmental employee -- defend, not abrogate my right to announce that "Yngvi is a louse!" on the sidewalk.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
However, we are not dealing with a private university, but a public one - supported by large sums of taxpayers' money.
I went to a public university and while my tuition may have been subsidized by taxpayer dollars, I still did pay quite a bit to go there. He still doesn't have the right to stand up and disrupt a class where I'm trying to learn something else. Let him go out on the oval where we could throw water balloons at him. :laugh:
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
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Oakman wrote:
However, we are not dealing with a private university, but a public one - supported by large sums of taxpayers' money.
I went to a public university and while my tuition may have been subsidized by taxpayer dollars, I still did pay quite a bit to go there. He still doesn't have the right to stand up and disrupt a class where I'm trying to learn something else. Let him go out on the oval where we could throw water balloons at him. :laugh:
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
He wasn't disrupting class, he was giving a speach. Oral communications classes give you assignments on what type of speach to write and how long it should be. Then each student gives their speach to the class. If this professor was so intent on being anti-religious, he should have included that in the assignment. If he wasn't allowed to include that in the assignment, he certainly didn't have any business crapping on the kid for doing a speach on a religion subject.
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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Oakman wrote:
But you cannot tell me to shut up and leave if I parade on the sidewalk in front of your house
Yes that is my point. There is a difference, there is also a difference even in a public school class room. People are in charge of running them, they are responsible for what goes on in there. It's different. Again I am not saying the professor is correct in what he did, I am questioning if it is a matter of free speech as protected by the first amendment. I believe there is some doubt about it in this specific case.
led mike wrote:
Yes that is my point.
But I am not sure you understand that a public college and a public sidewalk are both subject to the First Amendment.
led mike wrote:
There is a difference, there is also a difference even in a public school class room.
There have been umpty-ump tests of the right of students to free speech in grammar, middle, high and college classrooms. To be the best of my knowledge the teacher attempting to limit the student's right to express himherself almost always loses.
led mike wrote:
I believe there is some doubt about it in this specific case.
A student told that he was required to make a public presentation on a subject of his choosing is then denied a grade and called a fascist bastard because his choice was to speak on religion? Los Angesles will settle out of court because they know they'll lose. Remember that student had the right to be there. He was not an interloper, he was the raison d'etre of the class.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
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BoneSoft wrote:
It's a good read
I thought so. However, it talks of a past seen through rose-colored glasses. I lived through the '50's - graduated from highschool in '61 - and I guarantee you that it was an unhappy time. Joe McCarthy and the American legion ran rampant over the freedom that Socrates symbolises, we came close to dropping the atomic bomb on China, Batman was pronounced a homosexual, and books were taken out of public libraries and burned. There was plenty of porn around, but you had to be a friend of the police chief or in the Elks club to get invited to a Saturday-night "smoker." Blacks were hung from trees for looking at white women and women who thought they were the equals of men in any way were condemned as dykes and whores. What made America great back then wasn't what she was, but in what she might have become. That is what I think we've lost in the last 50 years - our potential - and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the catalytic event wasn't Timothy Leary urging kids to turn on and drop out, it was Richard Nixon making our money worthless.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.
Oakman wrote:
What made America great back then wasn't what she was, but in what she might have become.
Agreed.
Oakman wrote:
That is what I think we've lost in the last 50 years
Agreed.
Oakman wrote:
Batman was pronounced a homosexual
That was a bad time. :omg: If he'd not taken a side-kick... Robin has always kinda given that vibe. :sigh:
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