What has Eric Holder wrought?
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Actually, if you take in the author of the comic's history of discriminatory cartoons, it might not be obvious. In fact, it would seem downright intuitive to assume that he meant exactly this type of provocation to stir someone like Holder to make race an issue. Still a red herring, and Holder took the bait. But I don't think its fair to brow beat people into accepting the simple interpretation of the chimp attack. Just wish they would switch the story to Pelosi being the Chimp. Accuracy an all..
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Synaptrik wrote:
But I don't think its fair to brow beat people into accepting the simple interpretation of the chimp attack.
so ... just how do you interpret the chimp attack?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Synaptrik wrote:
But I don't think its fair to brow beat people into accepting the simple interpretation of the chimp attack.
so ... just how do you interpret the chimp attack?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Is your deliberate play on words relative to the debate? I think so. Do I really need to clarify my definition? I don't think so. What I am saying is that with the author's history, it is just as plausible that this was meant to incite the racist discussion as it could be a dense treatment of New York's monkey problem. Which in itself is a chimp attack.
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Is your deliberate play on words relative to the debate? I think so. Do I really need to clarify my definition? I don't think so. What I am saying is that with the author's history, it is just as plausible that this was meant to incite the racist discussion as it could be a dense treatment of New York's monkey problem. Which in itself is a chimp attack.
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Synaptrik wrote:
Is your deliberate play on words relative to the debate? I think so.
and what might that be? The point I was making is that it matters fuck all what words are used in a situation because the real race baiters will twist those words, even to the point of reading my mind, to their own ends.
Synaptrik wrote:
Do I really need to clarify my definition?
I only pointed out that your statement made little or no sense.
Synaptrik wrote:
it is just as plausible that this was meant to incite the racist discussion
and it is just as possible, if not more so, that the cartoonist was ridiculing congress as led by the fool Pelosi.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Synaptrik wrote:
Is your deliberate play on words relative to the debate? I think so.
and what might that be? The point I was making is that it matters fuck all what words are used in a situation because the real race baiters will twist those words, even to the point of reading my mind, to their own ends.
Synaptrik wrote:
Do I really need to clarify my definition?
I only pointed out that your statement made little or no sense.
Synaptrik wrote:
it is just as plausible that this was meant to incite the racist discussion
and it is just as possible, if not more so, that the cartoonist was ridiculing congress as led by the fool Pelosi.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
and what might that be?
My statement when parsed literally refers to the attack itself instead of the interpretation of the comic. I meant the interpretation of the comic. I assumed you knew that and were playing with words. But, I think you knew that as well, and are just bored.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
he point I was making is that it matters f*** all what words are used in a situation because the real race baiters will twist those words, even to the point of reading my mind, to their own ends.
And the author of the cartoon doesn't? This isn't one sided. It takes two to tango. And considering the history of this particular author, one could actually expect it. But, I wonder why you are making such a big deal out of it. This is the primary subject you initiate posts about these days. Now, why are you a registered democrat? I'm not by the way.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
and what might that be?
My statement when parsed literally refers to the attack itself instead of the interpretation of the comic. I meant the interpretation of the comic. I assumed you knew that and were playing with words. But, I think you knew that as well, and are just bored.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
he point I was making is that it matters f*** all what words are used in a situation because the real race baiters will twist those words, even to the point of reading my mind, to their own ends.
And the author of the cartoon doesn't? This isn't one sided. It takes two to tango. And considering the history of this particular author, one could actually expect it. But, I wonder why you are making such a big deal out of it. This is the primary subject you initiate posts about these days. Now, why are you a registered democrat? I'm not by the way.
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Synaptrik wrote:
This is the primary subject you initiate posts about these days.
is it now? this would be the 2nd. I guess that makes it primary, right?
Synaptrik wrote:
Now, why are you a registered democrat?
Operation Chaos.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Synaptrik wrote:
This is the primary subject you initiate posts about these days.
is it now? this would be the 2nd. I guess that makes it primary, right?
Synaptrik wrote:
Now, why are you a registered democrat?
Operation Chaos.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
is it now? this would be the 2nd. I guess that makes it primary, right?
Split hairs if you like, I just noticed a focus. :laugh:
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Operation Chaos.
Thanks, now I don't have to assume. Although, I do wonder why when confronted on your stance one of your replies is : "I'm a registered Democrat" as if you were an insider just upset with the current. Its good to have some truth once and a while with the heaping spoonfuls of sophistry.
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The man said that the US of A is a coward, re: discussions on race. Given the response to a cartoon by those that make a living from race baiting, he may be right - not only should be be wary of discussion, but discussion is not remotely possible.[^] Anyone with a lick of sense knew that the cartoon was a reference to the chimp attack[^], well, anyone with the exception of the Reverund Al Sharpton (who has been waiting for an opportunity to strike back)[^] and Julian Bond.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Considering all the times Bush was compared to a chimp, I hardly see what Obama or his supporters have to complain about.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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The man said that the US of A is a coward, re: discussions on race. Given the response to a cartoon by those that make a living from race baiting, he may be right - not only should be be wary of discussion, but discussion is not remotely possible.[^] Anyone with a lick of sense knew that the cartoon was a reference to the chimp attack[^], well, anyone with the exception of the Reverund Al Sharpton (who has been waiting for an opportunity to strike back)[^] and Julian Bond.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Him calling us a nation of cowards is something I would say, and he is right.
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Considering all the times Bush was compared to a chimp, I hardly see what Obama or his supporters have to complain about.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
It's an interesting question. You're right, and given that this is what cartoonists *do*, it would be disingenuous for anyone in the Obama camp to play the race card whenever he's depicted in a cartoon. But, my understanding is that it's not Obama who is upset, it's people outside his camp who are complaining, and that obviously having a President of color to try to caricature without being accused of racism is a minefield that's blowing up all over the place.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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The man said that the US of A is a coward, re: discussions on race. Given the response to a cartoon by those that make a living from race baiting, he may be right - not only should be be wary of discussion, but discussion is not remotely possible.[^] Anyone with a lick of sense knew that the cartoon was a reference to the chimp attack[^], well, anyone with the exception of the Reverund Al Sharpton (who has been waiting for an opportunity to strike back)[^] and Julian Bond.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
is it now? this would be the 2nd. I guess that makes it primary, right?
Split hairs if you like, I just noticed a focus. :laugh:
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Operation Chaos.
Thanks, now I don't have to assume. Although, I do wonder why when confronted on your stance one of your replies is : "I'm a registered Democrat" as if you were an insider just upset with the current. Its good to have some truth once and a while with the heaping spoonfuls of sophistry.
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Synaptrik wrote:
"I'm a registered Democrat" as if you were an insider just upset with the current.
well, as a natural born citizen of the US of A I do happen to consider myself an insider that is upset with the current.
Synaptrik wrote:
Its good to have some truth once and a while with the heaping spoonfuls of sophistry.
where in this thread have I been deceptive? point in fact, I am angry at those that make a living out of race baiting - the reason for initiating this thread as well as the first of my recent focus.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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[Message Deleted]
MrPlankton wrote:
If this extends beyond ...
in 2 complete sentences and 1 fragment you used the word "crisis" twice. to be a real crisis you need to use the word a few more times. I respectfully suggest, twice in each sentence and once in a fragment.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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bulg wrote:
What it actually does, like almost every other race joke
it isn't a race joke, idiot that was my point.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Thank you for the edit. I think it was. Defend your point against this: * 6th largest paper by circulation * Obama-administration is tightly coupled with stimulus bill * "black people = monkeys" is (sadly) a common derogatory characterization (this can be verified in about 15 minutes by going to 4chan) * people outside new england are not likely to have heard about a chimp attack (I sure haven't) Was I just really unclear? I hope this is better. I think I am totally right about what he's doing - being very offensive for notoriety, backtracking to a technicality, and dismissing interpretations of the cartoon as false (fallacious, because interpretations cannot be false by definition). He's taking advantage of the monkey situation to take a swipe at the president in a way that would be totally awful otherwise. (my 2 cents)
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It's an interesting question. You're right, and given that this is what cartoonists *do*, it would be disingenuous for anyone in the Obama camp to play the race card whenever he's depicted in a cartoon. But, my understanding is that it's not Obama who is upset, it's people outside his camp who are complaining, and that obviously having a President of color to try to caricature without being accused of racism is a minefield that's blowing up all over the place.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Obama is far too cool and intelligent to become publically involved in any of this. He has plenty of surrogates who will fight those battles for him. You can bet though that every possible negative spin on Hussien will be related to racism, somehow, someway.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Obama is far too cool and intelligent to become publically involved in any of this. He has plenty of surrogates who will fight those battles for him. You can bet though that every possible negative spin on Hussien will be related to racism, somehow, someway.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Assuming that Obama is behind these attacks, it just brings race into the political games that both sides have always played, so I don't see it as a big issue if you are right.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
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Synaptrik wrote:
"I'm a registered Democrat" as if you were an insider just upset with the current.
well, as a natural born citizen of the US of A I do happen to consider myself an insider that is upset with the current.
Synaptrik wrote:
Its good to have some truth once and a while with the heaping spoonfuls of sophistry.
where in this thread have I been deceptive? point in fact, I am angry at those that make a living out of race baiting - the reason for initiating this thread as well as the first of my recent focus.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
well, as a natural born citizen of the US of A I do happen to consider myself an insider that is upset with the current.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
point in fact, I am angry at those that make a living out of race baiting - the reason for initiating this thread as well as the first of my recent focus.
Fair enough and valid points.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
where in this thread have I been deceptive?
Not in this thread. Regarding sophistry, just your use of "I'm a registered Democrat" when arguing against the left. It appears that you are a disgruntled democrat arguing to save his party, when I assume that you are a conservative first, and registered as a democrat for reasons you've already mentioned. Operation Chaos. And, you're entitled. But sophistry it is to use the phrase "Registered as" instead of "I am" to disguise intention. Clever use of language while remaining truthful. But, again, you're entitled. This is one reason though, that I open primaries will bear much collateral damage.
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:laugh::laugh:
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Assuming that Obama is behind these attacks, it just brings race into the political games that both sides have always played, so I don't see it as a big issue if you are right.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.
Christian Graus wrote:
Assuming that Obama is behind these attacks,
I didn't say he was behind them. I said he can remain completely detached and things will be done at his behest without him doing anything at all. The entire mass of all major media resources would all fall on their swords for the man. They have too much invested in him to allow him to fail. Where ever Obama goes, so go they.
Christian Graus wrote:
it just brings race into the political games that both sides have always played, so I don't see it as a big issue if you are right.
It would be a big deal if we lived in anything remotely resembling a fair and open society. We don't. There is a massive, one-sided attack upon every single possible source of opposition to the left. Conservatism, traditional American values and principles, have all basically been hobbled, bound, gagged with a big "NAZI" sign hung around its neck by a pack of happy, gloating collectivists.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Assuming that Obama is behind these attacks,
I didn't say he was behind them. I said he can remain completely detached and things will be done at his behest without him doing anything at all. The entire mass of all major media resources would all fall on their swords for the man. They have too much invested in him to allow him to fail. Where ever Obama goes, so go they.
Christian Graus wrote:
it just brings race into the political games that both sides have always played, so I don't see it as a big issue if you are right.
It would be a big deal if we lived in anything remotely resembling a fair and open society. We don't. There is a massive, one-sided attack upon every single possible source of opposition to the left. Conservatism, traditional American values and principles, have all basically been hobbled, bound, gagged with a big "NAZI" sign hung around its neck by a pack of happy, gloating collectivists.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
I think the difference is that the attacks on Bush were based on his behaviour. I have to say that the first thing I thought when I saw the cartoon was that it was grotesquely racist. Then I thought, there's no way they (editors of the WP) could have meant that. Maybe they're just dumb. But maybe they are just hiding behind that and they really are a bunch of thugs. Maybe so, maybe not. Either way the decision to print it was a decision designed to cause conflict and bring out the worst in people, and should not be applauded.
Smokie, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. www.geticeberg.com
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I think the difference is that the attacks on Bush were based on his behaviour. I have to say that the first thing I thought when I saw the cartoon was that it was grotesquely racist. Then I thought, there's no way they (editors of the WP) could have meant that. Maybe they're just dumb. But maybe they are just hiding behind that and they really are a bunch of thugs. Maybe so, maybe not. Either way the decision to print it was a decision designed to cause conflict and bring out the worst in people, and should not be applauded.
Smokie, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules. www.geticeberg.com
melchizidech wrote:
I think the difference is that the attacks on Bush were based on his behaviour.
No, they were based upon a leftist assault against American conservatism. Its called propaganda.
melchizidech wrote:
I have to say that the first thing I thought when I saw the cartoon was that it was grotesquely racist.
Of course you did. You're well trained.
melchizidech wrote:
Then I thought, there's no way they (editors of the WP) could have meant that. Maybe they're just dumb. But maybe they are just hiding behind that and they really are a bunch of thugs. Maybe so, maybe not. Either way the decision to print it was a decision designed to cause conflict and bring out the worst in people, and should not be applauded.
Or maybe they were making a perfectly valid political point.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.