It’s incompetence married to ideology

Mike Gaskey

Carson and Zep may disagree, but the market[^] not so much.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Rob Graham

And we probably haven't yet seen capitulation.

Oakman

The Dow dropped from the high side of 14000 to just below 9000 under Bush, and from just under 9000 to just under 7,000 under Obama. last time I looked 5 was more'n twice 2 - except maybe in your blogger's mathematics. I have no reason to defend Obama at this point - he is what he is and that doesn't make me happy. But let's concentrate on what's happening on planet Earth, my friend, not the blogosphere. Leave that the Keith Olbermann.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

The Dow dropped from the high side of 14000 to just below 9000 under Bush

Bush took it from about 10,000 to 14,000 while dealing with terrorist, hurricanes, and leftists of every type and flavor. It wasn't until the democrats took congress that it really started to tank.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

let's concentrate on what's happening on planet Earth

sure[^]

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

As I said, he is what he is. But let's stay focused on the real stuff. Too many people are getting creamed to get caught up in stereotype - IMHO, of course.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Bush took it from about 10,000 to 14,000 while dealing with terrorist, hurricanes, and leftists of every type and flavor. It wasn't until the democrats took congress that it really started to tank.

And Obama took it over in the middle of a crisis far worse than all three of those put together, so what's your point?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Rob Graham

How about we prut the blame where it belongs: AIG, Lehman , Goldman-Sachs, Citi, B of A, and before them Countrywide. No government put a gun to their heads and forced them to make stupid bets on flaky paper that even they could not put a value on. Pauslon and Cox deserve some for looking the other way while this was going on. Barney frank some for pushing mortgages for everyone. In the end, though, the collapse came because a bunch of greedy folk did bad business, and in the process destroyed 50 years worth of trust in banks and markets.

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

How about we prut the blame where it belongs: AIG, Lehman , Goldman-Sachs, Citi, B of A, and before them Countrywide. No government put a gun to their heads and forced them to make stupid bets on flaky paper that even they could not put a value on. Pauslon and Cox deserve some for looking the other way while this was going on. Barney frank some for pushing mortgages for everyone.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Rob Graham wrote:

In the end, though, the collapse came because a bunch of greedy folk did bad business, and in the process destroyed 50 years worth of trust in banks and markets.

Has it been that long since the Savings and Loan debacle?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Yusuf

Oakman wrote:

The Dow dropped from the high side of 14000 to just below 9000 under Bush, and from just under 9000 to just under 7,000 under Obama. last time I looked 5 was more'n twice 2

Well yes 5 > 2, but that by it self does not tell anything. Take an exponential functions for instance, after the curve, it shots almost vertically. I don't have faith in the new administration either, but given the severity of the situation we are in, I don't believe the most genius (even if he takes the most radical action) would bring the situation to halt in 7-8 weeks.

Yusuf

Rob Graham

Oakman wrote:

Has it been that long since the Savings and Loan debacle?

LOL, how soon we forget.

Mike Gaskey

Yusuf wrote:

I don't believe the most genius (even if he takes the most radical action) would bring the situation to halt in 7-8 weeks.

not at all and that isn' the point. the point being, Magic is making it worse

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

LOL, how soon we forget.

Well, they say that memory is the second thing to go - and I forget what the first is.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Mike Gaskey

Oakman wrote:

As I said, he is what he is. But let's stay focused on the real stuff.

right, the "real" stuff are the 4 years of swirling around the drain before we can get someone into office that isn't hell bent on turning the US of A into Red Square II

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Yusuf

Mike Gaskey wrote:

Magic is making it worse

I don't see magic here. He is following some of Bush's *failed* policies, such as bailing out some and not another, blindly shooting sparks hoping it ignites fire. Then you got the democrats who were waiting to clinch to power, as soon as they took off, started working on what they see as their priorities (massive spending). If the republican were in charge, I'm sure they would have thrown their own *magic* My point is, while every one contributed to the problem (there were plenty failed policies on both sides), I am not sure if any one have a clue how to get out of this mess. [edit]When economy bottoms out, how will we know?[^] Some economists think it will be 2010 before we start seeing some light[/edit]

Yusuf

Oakman

Mike Gaskey wrote:

right, the "real" stuff are the 4 years of swirling around the drain before we can get someone into office that isn't hell bent on turning the US of A into Red Square II

Don't worry, Mike. If he lets GM go bankrupt, the UAW will take care of him.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.

Mike Gaskey

Yusuf wrote:

I am not sure if any one have a clue how to get out of this mess.

of course not, the idiots are doing exactly the same things that were done to create the depression.

Yusuf wrote:

If the republican were in charge

less earmarks

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Yusuf

Mike Gaskey wrote:

less earmarks

excuse me. Didn't we notice ballooned ear-mark, including the infamous bridge-to-no-where during the last republican administration and congress?

Yusuf

Rob Graham

Oakman wrote:

If he lets GM go bankrupt, the UAW will take care of him.

Ha! I think the UAW has already pretty well insured that bankruptcy. Obama may waste lots of our tax dollars trying to save it, but there is little hope for the survival of a company that depends on sales volumes that are not likely to be seen again this decade, and that is too big (and too poorly managed) to change their business model.

Oakman

Rob Graham wrote:

Ha! I think the UAW has already pretty well insured that bankruptcy.

Entirely possible. However, I was thinking "take care of" in the sense that they might have used on the Sopranos. They contributed millions of dollars to Obama's campaign and they will not be happy if they don't get their money's worth.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Algoraphobia: An exaggerated fear of the outside world rooted in the belief that one might spontaneously combust due to global warming.