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  4. The leftism of the Catholic Church, and why people don't see it

The leftism of the Catholic Church, and why people don't see it

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  • I Ilion

    The blogger Lawrence Auster: The leftism of the Catholic Church, and why people don't see it[^]

    Ed West writing[^] in the Telegraph makes an important observation heard all too infrequently in mainstream discussion, that the Catholic Church, far from being conservative or reactionary as it is generally believed to be, is, on all issues but sex, very left wing. "On economics, crime and foreign relations the Vatican is way to the Left of any mainstream British political party," West says. However, West fails to explain why the Church is falsely seen as reactionary. The reason is that, from the left's point of view, the questions of sex, of traditional morality, and ultimately of God, are the decisive questions. It is for the same reason that William Jennings Bryan, the father of the modern Democratic party, is treated as a villain or, at best, as a non-person by today's Democrats. Though he spent his entire career championing the common man and the expansion of the state for social-welfare and egalitarian purposes (an agenda first put into effect by Franklin Roosevelt several years after Bryan's death), Bryan was a religious Christian, a conservative on morality, and a staunch opponent of Darwinism with its materialistic, reductive view of man. And the left cannot forgive him for that. The lesson is that the war against God and moral truth is more fundamental to the left than the campaign for economic equality and security. ...

    I essentially agree with Mr Auster on this one. I have long seen the Catholic Church (irrespective of the parishioners), as touching on most aspects of modern life, as leftist.

    J Offline
    J Offline
    John Carson
    wrote on last edited by
    #2

    It is true that the Catholic Church is left-wing on many issues. The claim that the left is unaware of this or denies it or doesn't think it matters is based on what evidence? In Latin America, Marxists and left-wing Catholics have a history of working together. The situation in the West is that the Catholic hierarchy has often privileged traditional morality re sex and "life issues" over all others and has advised Catholics to vote for conservative parties on that basis. The relative lack of publicity given to the left-wing economic views of the Catholic hierarchy is in no small measure due to the choices by Catholics regarding what to publicly campaign over.

    Ilíon wrote:

    The lesson is that the war against God and moral truth is more fundamental to the left than the campaign for economic equality and security.

    Does equality of men and women count?

    John Carson

    1 Reply Last reply
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    • I Ilion

      The blogger Lawrence Auster: The leftism of the Catholic Church, and why people don't see it[^]

      Ed West writing[^] in the Telegraph makes an important observation heard all too infrequently in mainstream discussion, that the Catholic Church, far from being conservative or reactionary as it is generally believed to be, is, on all issues but sex, very left wing. "On economics, crime and foreign relations the Vatican is way to the Left of any mainstream British political party," West says. However, West fails to explain why the Church is falsely seen as reactionary. The reason is that, from the left's point of view, the questions of sex, of traditional morality, and ultimately of God, are the decisive questions. It is for the same reason that William Jennings Bryan, the father of the modern Democratic party, is treated as a villain or, at best, as a non-person by today's Democrats. Though he spent his entire career championing the common man and the expansion of the state for social-welfare and egalitarian purposes (an agenda first put into effect by Franklin Roosevelt several years after Bryan's death), Bryan was a religious Christian, a conservative on morality, and a staunch opponent of Darwinism with its materialistic, reductive view of man. And the left cannot forgive him for that. The lesson is that the war against God and moral truth is more fundamental to the left than the campaign for economic equality and security. ...

      I essentially agree with Mr Auster on this one. I have long seen the Catholic Church (irrespective of the parishioners), as touching on most aspects of modern life, as leftist.

      L Offline
      L Offline
      Lost User
      wrote on last edited by
      #3

      Ilíon wrote:

      I have long seen the Catholic Church (irrespective of the parishioners), as touching on most aspects of modern life, as leftist.

      So, it was news to you, huh?

      Bob Emmett

      1 Reply Last reply
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      • I Ilion

        The blogger Lawrence Auster: The leftism of the Catholic Church, and why people don't see it[^]

        Ed West writing[^] in the Telegraph makes an important observation heard all too infrequently in mainstream discussion, that the Catholic Church, far from being conservative or reactionary as it is generally believed to be, is, on all issues but sex, very left wing. "On economics, crime and foreign relations the Vatican is way to the Left of any mainstream British political party," West says. However, West fails to explain why the Church is falsely seen as reactionary. The reason is that, from the left's point of view, the questions of sex, of traditional morality, and ultimately of God, are the decisive questions. It is for the same reason that William Jennings Bryan, the father of the modern Democratic party, is treated as a villain or, at best, as a non-person by today's Democrats. Though he spent his entire career championing the common man and the expansion of the state for social-welfare and egalitarian purposes (an agenda first put into effect by Franklin Roosevelt several years after Bryan's death), Bryan was a religious Christian, a conservative on morality, and a staunch opponent of Darwinism with its materialistic, reductive view of man. And the left cannot forgive him for that. The lesson is that the war against God and moral truth is more fundamental to the left than the campaign for economic equality and security. ...

        I essentially agree with Mr Auster on this one. I have long seen the Catholic Church (irrespective of the parishioners), as touching on most aspects of modern life, as leftist.

        K Offline
        K Offline
        kmg365
        wrote on last edited by
        #4

        We have an El Salvadorian lady at our office, she is a devoted Catholic. She is anti-abortion, bumper sticker and all. When confronted with her schizophrenia she says her mother and father were born socialists in the old country and she and her family in emigrating to this country are now democrats and will always be democrats that is just who they are. Illegal immigration has consequences, sometimes it’s just a cultural thing, it doesn't have to make sense. Nor does it make sense why so many Jews are communists and socialists. They who have suffered so much from that state-ist view of government. Nor does it make sense why unions throw in with the socialists, unions who were crushed in the Soviet Union, Eastern Block, and China. I'ts difficult to understand these people, yet I work with them everyday.

        1 Reply Last reply
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        • I Ilion

          The blogger Lawrence Auster: The leftism of the Catholic Church, and why people don't see it[^]

          Ed West writing[^] in the Telegraph makes an important observation heard all too infrequently in mainstream discussion, that the Catholic Church, far from being conservative or reactionary as it is generally believed to be, is, on all issues but sex, very left wing. "On economics, crime and foreign relations the Vatican is way to the Left of any mainstream British political party," West says. However, West fails to explain why the Church is falsely seen as reactionary. The reason is that, from the left's point of view, the questions of sex, of traditional morality, and ultimately of God, are the decisive questions. It is for the same reason that William Jennings Bryan, the father of the modern Democratic party, is treated as a villain or, at best, as a non-person by today's Democrats. Though he spent his entire career championing the common man and the expansion of the state for social-welfare and egalitarian purposes (an agenda first put into effect by Franklin Roosevelt several years after Bryan's death), Bryan was a religious Christian, a conservative on morality, and a staunch opponent of Darwinism with its materialistic, reductive view of man. And the left cannot forgive him for that. The lesson is that the war against God and moral truth is more fundamental to the left than the campaign for economic equality and security. ...

          I essentially agree with Mr Auster on this one. I have long seen the Catholic Church (irrespective of the parishioners), as touching on most aspects of modern life, as leftist.

          S Offline
          S Offline
          Stan Shannon
          wrote on last edited by
          #5

          That shouldn't be a surprise considering that the modern left took its moral code from christianity in the first place - having no other source for it. Christianity has always been about helping the poor, etc. The only twist the collectivist put on it was they removed God and replaced him with the state in order to attempt to create heaven on earth - why wait after all.

          Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

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          • S Stan Shannon

            That shouldn't be a surprise considering that the modern left took its moral code from christianity in the first place - having no other source for it. Christianity has always been about helping the poor, etc. The only twist the collectivist put on it was they removed God and replaced him with the state in order to attempt to create heaven on earth - why wait after all.

            Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

            L Offline
            L Offline
            Lost User
            wrote on last edited by
            #6

            Stan Shannon wrote:

            in order to attempt to create heaven on earth - why wait after all.

            That's because we're all atheists; no expectation of heaven elsewhere - even if there is an afterlife.

            Bob Emmett

            modified on Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:05 AM

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            • L Lost User

              Stan Shannon wrote:

              in order to attempt to create heaven on earth - why wait after all.

              That's because we're all atheists; no expectation of heaven elsewhere - even if there is an afterlife.

              Bob Emmett

              modified on Saturday, March 21, 2009 8:05 AM

              S Offline
              S Offline
              Stan Shannon
              wrote on last edited by
              #7

              Bob Emmett wrote:

              That's because we're all atheists; no expectation of heaven elsewhere - even if there is an afterlife.

              And why you seek salvation from the state.

              Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

              L 1 Reply Last reply
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              • S Stan Shannon

                Bob Emmett wrote:

                That's because we're all atheists; no expectation of heaven elsewhere - even if there is an afterlife.

                And why you seek salvation from the state.

                Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

                L Offline
                L Offline
                Lost User
                wrote on last edited by
                #8

                Stan Shannon wrote:

                And why you seek salvation from the state.

                As in 'Seek to be saved by the State' or 'Seek to be saved from the State'? :)

                Bob Emmett

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                • S Stan Shannon

                  That shouldn't be a surprise considering that the modern left took its moral code from christianity in the first place - having no other source for it. Christianity has always been about helping the poor, etc. The only twist the collectivist put on it was they removed God and replaced him with the state in order to attempt to create heaven on earth - why wait after all.

                  Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

                  O Offline
                  O Offline
                  Oakman
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #9

                  Stan Shannon wrote:

                  Christianity has always been about helping the poor, etc.

                  Christianity means you are saved by good works? Not faith? I was taught that for about the first thousand years, the best life a Christian could live would be to renounce the world and any interest in it and retire behind cloistered walls to live a life of contemplation and prayer. Unless of course, you wanted to enlist in the Pope's army and kill people.

                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                  S 1 Reply Last reply
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                  • O Oakman

                    Stan Shannon wrote:

                    Christianity has always been about helping the poor, etc.

                    Christianity means you are saved by good works? Not faith? I was taught that for about the first thousand years, the best life a Christian could live would be to renounce the world and any interest in it and retire behind cloistered walls to live a life of contemplation and prayer. Unless of course, you wanted to enlist in the Pope's army and kill people.

                    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

                    S Offline
                    S Offline
                    Stan Shannon
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #10

                    Oakman wrote:

                    Christianity means you are saved by good works? Not faith? I was taught that for about the first thousand years, the best life a Christian could live would be to renounce the world and any interest in it and retire behind cloistered walls to live a life of contemplation and prayer.

                    No, simply pointing out that there have always been elements of christianity that overlap those of liberalism. Frankly, I don't believe that good works get you into heavan, faith does. But good works are a means of expressing and demonstrating one's faith.

                    Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

                    O 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • S Stan Shannon

                      Oakman wrote:

                      Christianity means you are saved by good works? Not faith? I was taught that for about the first thousand years, the best life a Christian could live would be to renounce the world and any interest in it and retire behind cloistered walls to live a life of contemplation and prayer.

                      No, simply pointing out that there have always been elements of christianity that overlap those of liberalism. Frankly, I don't believe that good works get you into heavan, faith does. But good works are a means of expressing and demonstrating one's faith.

                      Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

                      O Offline
                      O Offline
                      Oakman
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #11

                      Stan Shannon wrote:

                      Frankly, I don't believe that good works get you into heavan, faith does.

                      But bad works keep you out, right? I suppose the definition of evil in those terms therefore is the person with faith in the existence of God as presented by his religion of choice, who then deliberately commits acts that will condemn him to hell. Whereas, from a next-world point of view, it doesn't matter what the non-believer does. He is outside the system, so to speak.

                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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