Oil -- EVIL; Nucular -- EVILER; Solar -- SAINTLY ... just NIMBY

[Ilion]

Christian Graus wrote:

The big issue is that none of the alternatives, scale well. Sure, I can put solar on my roof. But, the environmental cost of creating panels for everyone, is as bad as using oil.

At least.

[Christian Graus]

Biofuel is just as bad. Fact is, there are no solutions that I can see, that will allow places like China, to enjoy a western standard of living, let alone to continue to support the West in that regard.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Ilion]

Christian Graus wrote:

The biggest issue is not morons who assume that there is a never ending supply of oil.

There is a reason we have to rely upon governmental bribes and compulsion ... along with false moralism ... to "encourage" people to recycle. It has nothing to do with "corporate greed," it has to do with the economic inefficiency ... the waste of time and resources ... which is the result of most recycling.

[Ilion]

Christian Graus wrote:

Biofuel is just as bad.

Of course; it's a scam. Anything which must be subsidized to make it "affordable" is not; subsidies merely force Person B to pay for for Person A's usage.

Christian Graus wrote:

Fact is, there are no solutions that I can see, that will allow places like China, to enjoy a western standard of living, let alone to continue to support the West in that regard.

The lion's share of fossil fuels go toward generating electricity. Nuclear power can take up that slack. Sure, nuclear is not a total solution, but unless we come up with something better, we will have to go nuclear ... or die by the billions.

[Christian Graus]

People are 'encouraged' ( in quotes ) to recycle because of inefficiency, and recycling also CAUSES inefficiency ? What does that mean ? I read a book written by a rolling stone editor, in which he joined several conspiracy groups and also a number of churches in the south., He reports that the congregation were told that recycling and the Prius are 'unAmerican' and it's gods will that they pollute, basically. I was left very depressed.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Christian Graus]

Yes, I see nuclear as pretty inevitable at this point.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

I agree, but energy is likely to be the final nail in the coffin even if everything else is fixable

It isn't fixable. I cannot imagine any of the major powers giving up their fiat money. As long as they can all print up a couple of trillion without having to back it up with anything except a smile, they will do so. The end will come quickly once it starts, and I see every indication that Obama's and Bernanke's and Little Timmie Geithner's lack of foresight will bring it on soon. 2012 may have prove that Nostradamus was too optimistic.

Stan Shannon wrote:

Unless we just want to end it all with nukes first.

In another thread we came up with that particular battle being more likely one that Russia and China will wage.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Ilion]

Christian Graus wrote:

People are 'encouraged' ( in quotes ) to recycle because of inefficiency, and recycling also CAUSES inefficiency ? What does that mean ?

It means you're not trying to understand what I wrote.

[Oakman]

Christian Graus wrote:

I was left very depressed.

Don't assume that Rolling Stone is a bastion of unbiased journalism and you might feel better. ;)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Oakman]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

Apparently they are having to re-think their budget in a big way.

Someone made the point recently that when venezuala got in trouble they moved to the right; when the US did, they moved to the left. Not sure if that means anything but it's interesting.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Ilion]

Christian Graus wrote:

I read a book written by a rolling stone editor, in which he joined several conspiracy groups and also a number of churches in the south., He reports that the congregation were told that recycling and the Prius are 'unAmerican' and it's gods will that they pollute, basically. I was left very depressed.

The truth about the Prius[^]

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

It isn't fixable. I cannot imagine any of the major powers giving up their fiat money. As long as they can all print up a couple of trillion without having to back it up with anything except a smile, they will do so. The end will come quickly once it starts, and I see every indication that Obama's and Bernanke's and Little Timmie Geithner's lack of foresight will bring it on soon. 2012 may have prove that Nostradamus was too optimistic.

In a strange sort of way, it makes me feel better that there is someone out there as pessimistic about all of this as I am. I simply do not see how the center can hold. I have no confidence at all that there are grown ups out there capable of fixing any of this. These fuckers have all out smarted themselves and I don't think any of them have a clue what to do. I wish I had put a lot more money into gold when I had the chance.

Oakman wrote:

In another thread we came up with that particular battle being more likely one that Russia and China will wage.

Yeah, but that was when I was feeling a bit more optimistic ... It is sort of appropriate that encore has been showing 'Road Warrior' alot this month. If I start working out now, maybe I still have a chance to be the Ayotolla of Rock and Rolla... :~

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

In a strange sort of way, it makes me feel better that there is someone out there as pessimistic about all of this as I am.

I truly wish I wasn't. It was more restful when we both believed that Obama would govern from the center and argued about why he would do so. I was more wrong that you were.

Stan Shannon wrote:

I simply do not see how the center can hold.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; . . . And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Stan Shannon wrote:

These f***ers have all out smarted themselves and I don't think any of them have a clue what to do.

Looking back, I think the only one who might have had a shot was Ron Paul. If only he had the charisma of Obama.

Stan Shannon wrote:

If I start working out now, maybe I still have a chance to be the Ayotolla of Rock and Rolla...

Better bet would be to put your librarian skills to use and begin to pack away a collection that would help you and your survive in the new stoneage. Who knows, you might find a bunch of kids in the desert and lead them to the promised land - or at least be remembered in all their tells.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

It was more restful when we both believed that Obama would govern from the center and argued about why he would do so.

I've been very much surprised by him so far. I have always felt he was a leftist at heart, but I honestly thought that he would be cautious politically but at least efficient in his leadershipo. So far he has been neither. He seems to simply be randomly picking solutions from American history and relying on Pelosi to ram things through for him. And his ability to build an effective leadership team so far makes Bush look like U.S. Grant.

Oakman wrote:

Looking back, I think the only one who might have had a shot was Ron Paul.

At the very least, with Paul, we would still have had something resembling America once the dust had settled.

Oakman wrote:

Better bet would be to put your librarian skills to use and begin to pack away a collection that would help you and your survive in the new stoneage. Who knows, you might find a bunch of kids in the desert and lead them to the promised land - or at least be remembered in all their tells.

I'll just have to keep on the look out for large angry black women running pig farms as I wonder wander the wastelands with my extensive collection of material on the southern colonies.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

Christian Graus wrote:

I read a book written by a rolling stone editor, in which he joined several conspiracy groups and also a number of churches in the south.,

Thats odd, I've lived my entire life in and around the south, and have never encountered any of that. Of course, I wasn't actually trying to find them though... Every place I've ever been to had prius' and recycling bins.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Lost User]

Stan Shannon wrote:

It is sort of appropriate that encore has been showing 'Road Warrior' alot this month. If I start working out now, maybe I still have a chance to be the Ayotolla of Rock and Rolla... Unsure

Wow thats my all time favorite movie, haven't seen it for years. The gyro copter thing the skinny snake guy gets around on is sitting in a field next to an aerodrome not far from here.

[Christian Graus]

I know what his bias is. That doesn't mean he's lying.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Christian Graus]

Well, I'd hate to think that I implied everyone in the south was like that. But, that such people exist at all, is depressing.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Christian Graus]

I guess that means that it makes sense to you, but not enough for you to be willing to explain it.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista.

[Brady Kelly]

Oakman wrote:

we will be able to keep warm and read at night by burning dollar bills.

Zimerica! :rolleyes: