The Guardian: The question that flummoxed the great orator

[Lost User]

Ahh! you found a use for the spittoon then? ;P

[Rob Graham]

Oakman wrote:

If he is an example of the best the conservatives have to offer, there is no reason to worry about survival until 2010; with opponents like him, Obama Democrats will maintain their majorities without a problem. My hope is that reasonably intelligent, reasonably well-intentioned, clear-eyed centrists will lead the reaction to Obama, giving us reason to hope that, for instance, the census will not be perverted in time for the 2012 elections.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

Maybe you should spend more time making up your own mind and less watching Rachel Madow?

I don't even know who that is. But he is and has been promoted as quite the gifted intellect.

Oakman wrote:

With that attitude in place, it seems unlikely that anything he says or does will impress you - which I find curious since you seem to agree that he is the epitome of the kind of President you admire - even though you don't agree with his goals.

I do admire his, and the dmocrats in general, committment to those who put them into power. They never compromise, they never give up, they never relent, but possess a single minded devotion to the accomplishment of their agenda. I wish the republicans had that kind of loyalty to their base.

Oakman wrote:

Then, by every thing I ever learned about tactics, you have already lost.

Yeah, I know. Probably explains why the celts ended up on real estate that no one else wanted. We just can't help ourselves.

Oakman wrote:

My hope is that reasonably intelligent, reasonably well-intentioned, clear-eyed centrists will lead the reaction to Obama, giving us reason to hope that, for instance, the census will not be perverted in time for the 2012 elections.

Your hope isn't all that different from what was just tried. McCain was about as centrist as you could get, and was a war hero to boot. The only small bone he even tossed in the direction of conservatives was Sarah Palin who was immediately demonized as some kind of extremist yet could not have been more representative of traditional mainstream American values. My hope is that conservatives continue to hold on to the base of the republican party. Refusing to yield, refusing to acknoweledge that there is any thing even remotely extremist about promoting the values and the traditions of American civilization as it has always been understood throughout our entire history. 2010, 2012, 3012, the date doesn't matter to me. The left will fail. The American people will tire of Obama, Pelosi and the liberal agenda soon enough. It is inevitable, and conservatives should be there as the only legitimate alternative left standing when that happens. No compromise, no apologise, no caveats, just fiscal and social conservatism as it has always been understood by Americans.

[Stan Shannon]

I'm actually pretty sure thats fake. There was one picture of them exchanging cheek kisses or whatever the hell they do over there, but most of the others were fabricated.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

There are indeed a good many AMericans who do wish to do just that. But there are many of us who do not.

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

Perhaps your traditional American principles needs a wholesale review as nearly all are as imported from those old countries just like much of your Common Law statutes.

And perhaps they don't. Perhaps instead, you guys need to become more like us.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

McCain was about as centrist as you could get, and was a war hero to boot.

He is, unfortunately, also a crippled old man whose public personna is a pathetic remnant of the man he was nine years ago. Old age happens to all of us and he deserves great respect for what he has done for this country. As for Palin - she's a joke. If she is what you consider a great conservative, then once again you appear to want to lose elections.

Stan Shannon wrote:

My hope is that conservatives continue to hold on to the base of the republican party. Refusing to yield, refusing to acknoweledge that there is any thing even remotely extremist about promoting the values and the traditions of American civilization as it has always been understood throughout our entire history.

Geeze, I can hear "When the Saints Go Marchin' In" playing in the background. But once again I listen to you espouse utter and total defeat at the polls.

Stan Shannon wrote:

It is inevitable, and conservatives should be there as the only legitimate alternative left standing when that happens.

So when America is scraping the bottom of the barrel . . . One would hope that there would be, even then, an alternative to the John Birch Society. But you may be right. Only after America has reduced itself to the educational, social, and economic level it was in at the turn of the last century would there be a real chance for the groupthink society you seem to hope for.

Stan Shannon wrote:

No compromise, no apologise, no caveats, just fiscal and social conservatism as it has always been understood by Americans.

Stan, I guess I have to be the one to break it to you: not every citizen of the United States of America lives in a backwater town in Indiana. That rural mind-set that you believe you speak for, has not been that of America as a whole, for at least 100 years. It's time to wake up and smell the industrial revolution.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

modified on Sunday, April 5, 2009 4:41 PM

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

I'm actually pretty sure thats fake

I saw the video when Faisal showed up at the ranch. After the mouth kiss, they walked back to the ranch, holding hands. But don't let the facts confuse you.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Stan Shannon]

Well, all I know is that picture you posted is clearly faked, and not very well at that. And as far as hand holding goes, he apparently also held Gerald Ford's hands. Evidently, its the polite thing to do in Texas when your walking with an old person.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

As for Palin - she's a joke. If she is what you consider a great conservative, then once again you appear to want to lose elections.

No, she is actually a quite able and accomplished politician. Honest, decent and intelligent. She is everything anyone could possibly hope for.

Oakman wrote:

So when America is scraping the bottom of the barrel . . . One would hope that there would be, even then, an alternative to the John Birch Society. But you may be right. Only after America has reduced itself to the educational, social, and economic level it was in at the turn of the last century would there be a real chance for the groupthink society you seem to hope for.

The political system that existed at the turn of the century in the United States is the only workable political model we have. It was working flawlessly for the most part. A few racial and gender issues still needed to dealt with, but aside from that it had few problems. But, hey, I'm more than happy to let the rest of you continue to fart around with all this other unworkable nonsense. Knock yourself out. I'll be waiting. Come to my side, or stay with Obama, that's your choice.

Oakman wrote:

Stan, I guess I have to be the one to break it to you: not every citizen of the United States of America lives in a backwater town in Indiana. That rural mind-set that you believe you speak for, has not been that of America as a whole, for at least 100 years. It's time to wake up and smell the industrial revolution.

The real question is where does this hatred and loathing for traditional American culture come from? Why are you so paranoid about small town America? We will again be what we were, it is inevitable.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Well, all I know is that picture you posted is clearly faked

ROFL - open your eyes.

Stan Shannon wrote:

Evidently, its the polite thing to do in Texas when your walking with an old person.

The Prince is younger than Bush Any more straws you'd like to clutch at?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Oakman]

I'll wait until you sober up. All of your posts tonight read like fantasies.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Stan Shannon]

Oakman wrote:

ROFL - open your eyes.

Jon, that picture is clearly faked. I could do a better job than that. Look at the damned thing.

Oakman wrote:

The Prince is younger than Bush

I don't believe that is true.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Stan Shannon]

I'm stone cold sober, and my belief is that what we had was better than any alternative presented since. Collectivism doesn't work. Libertarianism doesn't work. Conservativsm, when both fiscal and social are combined, works. Its just that simple, the American model, as designed and implemented. I, for one, will set and wait until everyone else figures that out.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

Look at the damned thing.

Wow! They not only faked the kiss, they faked the moment before it[^], too! :omg:

Stan Shannon wrote:

I don't believe that is true.

I know you don't, Stan. When you get into this state, you'll deny that the sun shines or water is wet.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

modified on Sunday, April 5, 2009 9:57 PM

[Stan Shannon]

I suppose I could be wrong about the guys age. I thought I had read somewhere that he was elderly. However, this[^] is the only non-fake image of Bush kissing any Saudi.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

I'm stone cold sober

You have said that before, but I have seen this descent into truculence and dogmatism on your part - usually on the weekend, always at night - to wonder if I shouldn't take that with a grain of salt. If you aren't drinking, you are giving a marvelous imitation of someone who is. Good night.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Oakman]

Stan Shannon wrote:

However, this[^] is the only non-fake image of Bush kissing any Saudi.

So you figure that both of the photos - obviously of the same sequence of events are both faked? Have you given up on the Easter Bunny, at least?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Ilion]

Stan Shannon wrote:

... I have no desire to re-integrate into it as an equal. To do so is the grossest imaginable insult to the people who built the US. Obama and his minions can kiss my butt.

Would that require bowing? :laugh: