A Big Win for Obama - but what's the prize?

Rob Graham

So, Mike, was it an apology and "throat baring" in 2006 when George Bush made EXACTLY the same statement? (first link I could find)[^] I think you're letting your rage get the better of your good sense. You are starting to sound like Oily does when he talks about Bush.

Bassam Saoud

Mr. Bush said it and he meant it to back his war against terror (or whatever motive he had). Bush's legacy is that: - He remained fully supportive of the efforts in Iraq - He remained fully supportive in preventing Iran getting nukes - He remained fully supportive of limiting Iran's power in the middle east - He remained fully supportive of democracry in the Middle East( as a lebanese, we always say thank God for G.W. or atleast some of us do) - He remained intolerent of countries that support Terrorism (Syria) If you listen to news today, its all about being "friendly", "let's talk" to Iran/Syria..

John Carson

I think the attitude that success constitutes America speaking and the rest of the world jumping into line is what was wrong with the Bush foreign policy. That sort of thing doesn't happen in the modern world. Successful diplomacy takes years, not a week. Obama got off to a good start building relationships. Give it a couple of years to see if those relationships can deliver something concrete.

John Carson

Mike Gaskey

Rob Graham wrote:

So, Mike, was it an apology and "throat baring" in 2006 when George Bush made EXACTLY the same statement?

no.

Rob Graham wrote:

I think you're letting your rage get the better of your good sense.

my good sense tells me we've elected a manchurian candidate. I have no respect for an American leader who believes it necessary to demean the nation by appologizing to curry favor.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Mike Gaskey

Bassam Saoud wrote:

If you listen to news today, its all about being "friendly", "let's talk" to Iran/Syria..

and it is a huge mistake.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Mike Gaskey

John Carson wrote:

Successful diplomacy takes years, not a week.

and it works until you look in the sky and say, "oh shit!". we've been doing the diplomatic dance on the issues of N. Korea and Iran for longer than I can remember. It has resulted in ???

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Rob Graham

Bassam Saoud wrote:

If you listen to news today, its all about being "friendly", "let's talk" to Iran/Syria..

True, and as I stated, I don't much care for Obama's "politically correct" approach to the terrorism issue, and believe his reliance on diplomacy with Iran and Syria will fail. Nonetheless, It serves no purpose to excoriate Obama for saying essentially what Bush said; there's plenty else to criticize. I also disliked it when opponents stooped to calling Bush names, the same applies to Obama. The Office (and both men) deserves more respect than that.

John Carson

Mike Gaskey wrote:

and it works until you look in the sky and say, "oh sh*t!". we've been doing the diplomatic dance on the issues of N. Korea and Iran for longer than I can remember. It has resulted in ???

It is a non sequitur to think that limited success with one approach necessarily mean that it is the wrong approach. Some problems are intractable and won't respond quickly or well to any approach. Other problems are more readily soluble. So far noone has died as a result of North Korea's missiles or Iran's nuclear program. The cold war took a while, but victory was eventually achieved without going to war with the Soviet Union.

John Carson

Bassam Saoud

Its a mistake to you.. Its a catastrophe for my country and countries in the region

Bassam Saoud

Rob Graham wrote:

True, and as I stated, I don't much care for Obama's "politically correct" approach to the terrorism issue, and believe his reliance on diplomacy with Iran and Syria will fail

Time is money - This softness will make moderate muslims panic and go to be bed when instead they were in the offensive. Its a very slim line...

Rob Graham

Well, I didn't vote for the man, nor will I next time.

Stan Shannon

Rob Graham wrote:

by any realistic standards an abject failure.

You just don't seem to get it. Obama is a success. He has always been successful in the past, and he always will be in the future. The same people who told us Bush was a moronic failure say so, and they are never wrong. In the end, you will believe them about Obama just as you did about Bush. Stop fighting it.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Stan Shannon

The problem is that Obama is implying that someone said we were at war with Islam. Who (aside form me) has ever said that we are. Bush didn't, he bent over backwards to avoid associating Islam with terrorism (even though it obviously is) So why is it such an applause line now for Obama?

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Stan Shannon

John Carson wrote:

think the attitude that success constitutes America speaking and the rest of the world jumping into line is what was wrong with the Bush foreign policy. That sort of thing doesn't happen in the modern world. Successful diplomacy takes years, not a week.

Obama's policies are indistinquishable from what we were doing before 9/11 - except for being even more timidly subservient. All that got us was 9/11. It will do so again. And the blood, once again, will be on the hands of people like you, John.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Rob Graham

I've come to accept that most of the media are hypocrites whose political persuasion colors their reporting (on both sides of the fence, Fox is no better, it just takes the opposite political position from the others). Other nation in general (not just the NATO bunch) hated Bush because he went to war in Iraq without their blessing. Because of that hatred, nothing Bush did was applauded, even when it was the proper thing. Obama benefits from simply being "Not Bush", and is applauded for things Bush was scorned for. Most of our so-called allies have become appeasers in the grand tradition of Neville Chamberlin, preferring endless talk to any concrete action; willing to let problems fester while offering at most polite scoldings. Obviously 911 wasn't enough, it will take a Pearl Harbor event to convince most that we face an implacable enemy that wants us dead. Our erstwhile allies don't believe this, nor do they believe themselves in the line of fire. In some respects, most would like to see us "get our comeuppance". We are viewed as the bully on the schoolyard.

Rob Graham

Oh, I get it Stan. I did say "by any realistic standards" the trip was a failure. That in no way means Obama is being judged by such. The media will not allow him to fail.

Stan Shannon

Rob Graham wrote:

Oh, I get it Stan.

I know. But most will not. If the media says he is successful, he is successful. It is 1984. Now and forever, until enough people finally do get it.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

bulg

Are you talking about.. this[^] missile?

Stan Shannon

Rob Graham wrote:

hated Bush because he went to war in Iraq without their blessing

The only thing I disagree with is that. They hated him because he was a conservative. Iraq merely provided an easy means of focusing that latent hostility. Europeans view traditional American conservatism as a dangerous form of poliltical radicalism. They are far more concerned about it than they are any other possible threat from any other source. Obama represents an America moving sharply towards a Euro-centric political perspective, and that makes them happy.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Bassam Saoud

The truth of the matter is that everyone knows what the problem is and what is needed to get rid of the problem. The thing is the American people made it clear (in the last elections) that their top priority is the economy and that means cutting expenses. "War on terror" is now just another expense. Mr. Obama is just executing what the people want. God bless democracy.