Eursoc: Inner city violence, Paris style: Warning, violent images

[Ilion]

Eursoc: Inner city violence, Paris style: Warning, violent images[^]

... The assault was recorded by bus CCTV. A policeman posted the video on a Facebook site: He has been arrested and suspended from his post. The authorities fear the video is being used by right-wing sites to stir up fear about racist violence by black and arab youths against French citizens. French authorities have been demanding the removal of the video from blogs and video hosting services. The President of the Paris transport authority RATP has described the video as "a crime in which the RATP is the victim: Unbelievable. The same transport President Pierre Mongin described the bus driver's conduct as "exemplary." The delegate for Sud-RATP, the hardline union for Paris transport workers, said that the violence was unexceptional for late-night services. What is exceptional, he added, was for the public to see the images. "Who broadcast this video on the internet?" he demanded, "the victims, the aggressors, the driver and the other passengers did not choose to be put in the public eye in this way. It's unacceptable." According to the union, extreme violence is unexceptional; invading the privacy of the aggressors, however, goes beyond the pale. ...

[Lost User]

Ilíon quoted:

A policeman posted the video on a Facebook site: He has been arrested and suspended from his post.

It is evidence for the prosecution. It should not be compromised.

Ilíon quoted:

The authorities fear the video is being used by right-wing sites to stir up fear about racist violence by black and arab youths

Which they will.

Ilíon quoted:

French authorities have been demanding the removal of the video from blogs and video hosting services.

Not yet in the 21st century.

Ilíon quoted:

The President of the Paris transport authority RATP has described the video as "a crime in which the RATP is the victim"

Meaningless drivel. X|

Ilíon quoted:

The same transport President Pierre Mongin described the bus driver's conduct as "exemplary."

As this is real life, not a Bruce Willis movie, it is an example I would follow - contact the emergency services and sit tight.

Ilíon quoted:

violence was unexceptional for late-night services

It certainly is: London, Manchester, Southampton, Wolverhampton, even Norwich has its moments.

Ilíon quoted:

According to the union, extreme violence is unexceptional; invading the privacy of the aggressors, however, goes beyond the pale.

This paragraph merely reveals the author's bias; and innocence. The word "extreme" is introduced, and the invasion of the privacy of the victims, driver, and other passengers, is ignored. (Giving someone "a good kicking" may appear extreme to innocents abroad, it is, however, commonplace.) Also, as unexceptional does not mean acceptable, the use of "however" is meaningless. OK. those are my opinions, Polly, do you have any?

Bob Emmett

[Lost User]

Bob Emmett wrote:

even Norwich has its moments

That is true but how do you know that?

[Stan Shannon]

Bob Emmett wrote:

Which they will.

But what would be the difference between that and incidents such as this? This is simply another manifestation of the self loathing which cripples western civilazation. We deserve to be beaten by all the other people's of the world - we're white after all. And we must do everything possible to shackle and contain the "right wing", because that is the worst possible threat of all! :rolleyes:

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Lost User]

If this was Britain, a lot of these late night incidents, especially weekends, would be most likely drink related. In Britain, with prices of alcohol so low, even school kids manage to get hold of the stuff, it really is turning into a social nightmare that does have heavy prices in terms of hospital accident & emergency rooms, ambulance personnel and police. I'm not convinced we can hang this on either the right wing or left wing.

[Stan Shannon]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

I'm not convinced we can hang this on either the right wing or left wing.

I'm actually pretty damned sure that if white gangs were beating up black folks on buses while calling them racial epithets, there would be far less moral confusion.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

[Lost User]

People have fear of gangs. Often they feel intimidated even if the gang is just standing around talking to each other doing no harm and minding their own business. Gangs irrespective of their skin colour, have a certain reputation that may not be wholly justified. Some of this culture of gangs can be put down to kids not having anything constructive to do with their lives and in many localities there is an absence of youth clubs or some other organized activities so they are bored. Of course, violent gangs such as reported here [^] need to be dealt with firmly. There certainly are moral dimensions to consider.

[Lost User]

My son was Asst. Manager at one of the Riverside clubs. He performed First Aid on idiots.

Bob Emmett

[Lost User]

Wensum is a dangerous place to be when inebriated.

[Mike Gaskey]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

There certainly are moral dimensions to consider.

and so very many ways of apologizing for uncivilized behavior - don't you just love moral equivalency?

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

[Lost User]

Stan Shannon wrote:

But what would be the difference between that and incidents such as this?

None.

Stan Shannon wrote:

This is simply another manifestation of the self loathing which cripples western civilazation.

Not on my part. The video should not be displayed until court procedings, and then, no doubt, it will enter the public domain. What I don't wan't the people like those I have worked with being beaten up by neo-Nazis just because they are Arab, Pakistani, or African in some sort of 'revenge' for attacks like these. (Or Jews were attacked in 'revenge' for the Israeli operations in Gaza). What I do want is the attackers tried with uncompromised evidence, put away and, if possible, deported.

Stan Shannon wrote:

We deserve to be beaten by all the other people's of the world - we're white after all.

Yes, after all, what have the British, Dutch, French, and Spanish ever done to the rest of the world - just because they weren't white? :)

Stan Shannon wrote:

And we must do everything possible to shackle and contain the "right wing"

Neo-Nazis? Yes.

Stan Shannon wrote:

because that is the worst possible threat of all!

No, because they are among the many serious threats that western civilisation faces.

Bob Emmett

[Oakman]

Bob Emmett wrote:

it is an example I would follow - contact the emergency services and sit tight.

Yep. That's what the passengers on the first three planes did on 9/11. The fourth group understood the futility of of playing Mr. Ostrich.

Bob Emmett wrote:

(Giving someone "a good kicking" may appear extreme to innocents abroad, it is, however, commonplace.)

So that's how gun control is working out for you?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Oakman]

Mike Gaskey wrote:

and so very many ways of apologizing for uncivilized behavior

And, I am sure you agree, one very effective way of answering it.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Lost User]

Stan Shannon wrote:

white gangs were beating up black folks on buses while calling them racial epithets

I doubt whether any white policeman would have posted the CCTV video on Facebook. Once upon a time, he may even have disabled the CCTV and joined in. :) But our police force is no longer 'institutionally racist'.

Bob Emmett

[Lost User]

Yes, but National Service was abolished. Might not be a bad idea to bring it back.

[Lost User]

Bob Emmett wrote:

contact the emergency services and sit tight

Oakman wrote:

That's what the passengers

As a late-night bus driver in Paris, not as a passenger on a hijacked aeroplane. I have no idea what was possible in the first 3 planes.

Oakman wrote:

So that's how gun control is working out for you?

Passengers and attackers shoot it out. Driver killed in crossfire. Bus swerves, collides with tanker. Tanker jack-knifes, overturns and spills fuel. Three lanes of traffic plough into tanker. All fuel tanks explode simultaneously. Only survivors are the attackers who race off into the night. Elderly, bald, NY cop, on exchange visit with Paris police, removes shirt and shoes, checks gun and ammo, and gives chase ... Quite well, thanks. :)

Bob Emmett

[Lost User]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

National Service was abolished. Might not be a bad idea to bring it back.

Getting on a bit, Richard? Finding the Daily Wail a good read? :) I seem to remember we had Teddy Boys with razors and knives doing much the same thing even when we had National Service. Anyway, the services don't want oiks for just a couple of years, they are of no use. Unless ... didn't the Soviet Army use its middle-aged for clearing mine-fields in WWII? Now there's a possible role for oiks.

Bob Emmett

[Lost User]

Bob Emmett wrote:

Getting on a bit, Richard? Finding the Daily Wail a good read? Smile I seem to remember we had Teddy Boys with razors and knives doing much the same thing even when we had National Service.

Yes, no I never read that - the EDP (your son will know of that newspaper even if you don't) is more to my liking, and you are right about them.

Bob Emmett wrote:

the services don't want oiks for just a couple of years, they are of no use

The square bashing might instill discipline in them. If it is done proper, it should equip them with some skills that a future employer might make use of, and there certainly is enough lads and lasses below 25 years of age who are unemployed.

[Oakman]

Bob Emmett wrote:

Quite well, thanks

You'd be surprised, I think, how the possibility of armed citizens tends to decrease criminal activity. For most of the history of Britain, outlaws had to deal with the idea that threatening John Q Public might permit them to make the aquaintance of John's broadsword, rapier, pistol, or revolver. These days all they have to worry about is John's waving the flag of surrender so vehemently every one's hair gets mussed.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

[Oakman]

Richard A. Abbott wrote:

Yes, but National Service was abolished.

I'm of two minds about that. It's always seemed to me that the draft was a form of slavery. Yet I cannot deny that it was a great place to find orc fodder, and to force some weak sisters into joining the militia. Interestingly, recruiting for the National Guard is up in this country, recently. An increase in the unemployment rate is apparently good for volunteering.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface