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  4. Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope

Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope

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  • 7 73Zeppelin

    So, the possibility to absolve sins would give people incentive to sin more, right?

    C Offline
    C Offline
    Christian Graus
    wrote on last edited by
    #13

    *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's responses show he is not Catholic ( you're assuming he is, a Christian would be opposed to all the Catholic practices you refer to in this thread, for roughly the reasons you're giving ), and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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    • C Christian Graus

      *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's responses show he is not Catholic ( you're assuming he is, a Christian would be opposed to all the Catholic practices you refer to in this thread, for roughly the reasons you're giving ), and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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      Ilion
      wrote on last edited by
      #14

      Christian Graus wrote:

      *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's Ilíon's responses show he is not Catholic ... and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

      Why does this confusion not shock me?

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      • I Ilion

        Christian Graus wrote:

        *grin* what confuses me is that Illion's Ilíon's responses show he is not Catholic ... and yet he's backing the pope on this on.

        Why does this confusion not shock me?

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        Christian Graus
        wrote on last edited by
        #15

        Funny, I started with Ilion and decided it looked wrong.... I am sure you're capable of agreeing with the Pope on one issue without agreeing with him, wholesale. It's just interesting that people are assuming you're Catholic, and you do seem to keep circling around to this point. If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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        • C Christian Graus

          Funny, I started with Ilion and decided it looked wrong.... I am sure you're capable of agreeing with the Pope on one issue without agreeing with him, wholesale. It's just interesting that people are assuming you're Catholic, and you do seem to keep circling around to this point. If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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          Ilion
          wrote on last edited by
          #16

          Christian Graus wrote:

          If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

          But I'm not "liberal" ... so I don't need to do the shuck-and-jive. Unlike, say, Edward Keenan (in the review I linked to above[^]), I don't even need to point out that I'm not going to preface a point of agreement by noting my overall disagreement.

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          • I Ilion

            Christian Graus wrote:

            If I agreed with the Pope on something, I'd say 'well, I'm not Catholic and the Papacy is a sham, BUT......'

            But I'm not "liberal" ... so I don't need to do the shuck-and-jive. Unlike, say, Edward Keenan (in the review I linked to above[^]), I don't even need to point out that I'm not going to preface a point of agreement by noting my overall disagreement.

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            Christian Graus
            wrote on last edited by
            #17

            OK, so you're not 'liberal', so you don't care what people think about you because you have no standards to uphold ? Gotcha.

            Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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            • C Christian Graus

              OK, so you're not 'liberal', so you don't care what people think about you because you have no standards to uphold ? Gotcha.

              Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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              Ilion
              wrote on last edited by
              #18

              Yeah, something like that. :laugh: Poor thing.

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              • C Christian Graus

                I think this is BS on both counts. I don't believe that anyone takes risks while driving because they figure the car is safer, not unless it's a rental car and they don't care what happens to it. If you wear a condom, you have a barrier of protection. The only way that I can see anal intercourse with a condom passing on aids, is if the condom breaks. And, if you like it in the butt, you like it in the butt, people who pay a hooker are unlikely to not ask for what they paid for.

                Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                Ilion
                wrote on last edited by
                #19

                Christian Graus wrote:

                I think assert this is BS on both counts.

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                • I Ilion

                  Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope[^]

                  Suppose you make cars safer by requiring seat belts, collapsible stearing columns, and other changes that make it less likely that an auto accident will kill the car's occupants. The obvious conclusion, and the one many people reach, is that the highway death rate will go down. Sam Peltzman, in a classic article[^], pointed out that there was no good theoretical reason to expect that to happen. Auto accidents do not simply happen; they are the result of decisions made by drivers, such as how fast to drive, how much attention to pay to driving and how much to conversations with your passengers or listening to the radio, whether to drive home or take a cab after drinking a little too much. Making cars safer lowers the cost of dangerous driving; on the margin, drivers are more willing to risk accidents the less likely accidents are to kill them. So making cars safer results in fewer deaths per accident but more accidents. There is no theoretical basis to predict whether the net effect will be fewer deaths or more. ... I was reminded of this by a more recent controversy involving a different issue but the same logic. The Pope has, not surprisingly, come out against the distribution of condoms as a way of dealing with the AIDS epidemice in Africa—and, not surprisingly, been ferociously attacked for doing so. Just as with auto safety and auto accidents, making sex safer has two effects working in opposite directions. It makes the chance that a given act of sex will result in AIDS transmission lower. But, by lowering that risk, it reduces the incentive to avoid sex entirely, to avoid sexual acts such as anal intercourse that are particularly likely to transmit AIDS, to avoid sex with people likely to give you AIDS, such as prostitutes. On theoretical grounds we have no way of knowing whether the net effect will be more AIDS or less. It turns out that there is evidence that, just as in the auto case, the two effects roughly cancel. That, at least, was the widely reported con

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                  Chris Meech
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #20

                  Abstain from the use of a car. :)

                  Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]

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                  • I Ilion

                    Christian Graus wrote:

                    I think assert this is BS on both counts.

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                    Christian Graus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #21

                    You can't answer the points I raised, but you felt your semantics were worth sharing ?

                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                    • I Ilion

                      Yeah, something like that. :laugh: Poor thing.

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                      Christian Graus
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #22

                      Yeah, having standards and values is a real burden.

                      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                      • C Chris Meech

                        Abstain from the use of a car. :)

                        Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]

                        C Offline
                        C Offline
                        Christian Graus
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #23

                        *grin* that much is true.

                        Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                        1 Reply Last reply
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                        • C Christian Graus

                          Yeah, having standards and values is a real burden.

                          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                          Ilion
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #24

                          And you know this, how?

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                          • C Christian Graus

                            You can't answer the points I raised, but you felt your semantics were worth sharing ?

                            Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                            Ilion
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #25

                            You didn't raise points. All you did was display your unwillingness to think about what you chose to dispute.

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                            • I Ilion

                              You didn't raise points. All you did was display your unwillingness to think about what you chose to dispute.

                              C Offline
                              C Offline
                              Christian Graus
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #26

                              you have no standards AND you're illiterate. Got it.

                              Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

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                              • I Ilion

                                And you know this, how?

                                C Offline
                                C Offline
                                Christian Graus
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #27

                                What are you, 8 years old ? You're the one who said you had no standards.

                                Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

                                I 1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • I Ilion

                                  Auto Accidents, AIDS, Contraception and the Pope[^]

                                  Suppose you make cars safer by requiring seat belts, collapsible stearing columns, and other changes that make it less likely that an auto accident will kill the car's occupants. The obvious conclusion, and the one many people reach, is that the highway death rate will go down. Sam Peltzman, in a classic article[^], pointed out that there was no good theoretical reason to expect that to happen. Auto accidents do not simply happen; they are the result of decisions made by drivers, such as how fast to drive, how much attention to pay to driving and how much to conversations with your passengers or listening to the radio, whether to drive home or take a cab after drinking a little too much. Making cars safer lowers the cost of dangerous driving; on the margin, drivers are more willing to risk accidents the less likely accidents are to kill them. So making cars safer results in fewer deaths per accident but more accidents. There is no theoretical basis to predict whether the net effect will be fewer deaths or more. ... I was reminded of this by a more recent controversy involving a different issue but the same logic. The Pope has, not surprisingly, come out against the distribution of condoms as a way of dealing with the AIDS epidemice in Africa—and, not surprisingly, been ferociously attacked for doing so. Just as with auto safety and auto accidents, making sex safer has two effects working in opposite directions. It makes the chance that a given act of sex will result in AIDS transmission lower. But, by lowering that risk, it reduces the incentive to avoid sex entirely, to avoid sexual acts such as anal intercourse that are particularly likely to transmit AIDS, to avoid sex with people likely to give you AIDS, such as prostitutes. On theoretical grounds we have no way of knowing whether the net effect will be more AIDS or less. It turns out that there is evidence that, just as in the auto case, the two effects roughly cancel. That, at least, was the widely reported con

                                  O Offline
                                  O Offline
                                  Oakman
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #28

                                  Ilíon wrote:

                                  “We have found no consistent associations between condom use and lower HIV-infection rates, which, 25 years into the pandemic, we should be seeing if this intervention was working.”

                                  Presumably then condums don't prevent any STD, inspite of the hundreds of studies showing otherwise. I suppose this could be because the AIDs virus is much cleverer than the syphillis virus and knows how to climb up to the top of the condum and slip out that way. . .or maybe the AIDs virus is so virulent that it melts microscopic holes in the condum. . .or maybe. . . :confused:

                                  Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                  • 7 73Zeppelin

                                    Ilíon wrote:

                                    So, you're going to punt?

                                    Depends on the context.

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                                    O Offline
                                    Oakman
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #29

                                    73Zeppelin wrote:

                                    Depends on the context.

                                    Illion's deep in his own territory with his defensive backfield crouched behind his own goal-line. It's 4th an 1/2 inch - go for it.

                                    Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                    • C Chris Meech

                                      Abstain from the use of a car. :)

                                      Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]

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                                      Oakman
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #30

                                      Chris Meech wrote:

                                      Abstain from the use of a car.

                                      And don't cross the road on foot, either.

                                      Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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                                      • 7 73Zeppelin

                                        So, the possibility to absolve sins would give people incentive to sin more, right?

                                        T Offline
                                        T Offline
                                        Tim Craig
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #31

                                        73Zeppelin wrote:

                                        So, the possibility to absolve sins would give people incentive to sin more, right?

                                        I had a catholic friend actually tell me that. Party Saturday, confess on Sunday, good to go again.

                                        "Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

                                        I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
                                        ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!

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                                        • T Tim Craig

                                          73Zeppelin wrote:

                                          So, the possibility to absolve sins would give people incentive to sin more, right?

                                          I had a catholic friend actually tell me that. Party Saturday, confess on Sunday, good to go again.

                                          "Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

                                          I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
                                          ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!

                                          O Offline
                                          O Offline
                                          Oakman
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #32

                                          Tim Craig wrote:

                                          I had a catholic friend actually tell me that. Party Saturday, confess on Sunday, good to go again.

                                          Pity the Jews - they have a day of atonement, but it only comes around once a year.

                                          Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

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