I guess the outlaw programmer was right

Stan Shannon

Yeah, yeah, I know, the blue states give us all our money. Try growing your own fucking food for all those inner city lay abouts you have to support.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Synaptrik wrote:

Blue states receive about 66 cents in benefit from each dollar taxed, where as red states receive something like 130 for every dollar taxed

Yep, but you're counting a lot of of expenditures that would probably disappear pretty quickly after the secession. The south has a disproportionate number of folks on Federal welfare. I imagine a great number of them would migrate once it was cut off - after all Obama welcomes illegal aliens. ;)

Synaptrik wrote:

Might not be a bad idea.

Are you familiar with the nine nations of north america[^] concept? It's fascinating to think about.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Why?

Stan, if you don't care about them and they don't care about themselves, then I wouldn't be dumb enough to try to explain why most human beings would feel differently.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface

Tim Craig

kmg365 wrote:

I remember, was it "Simons the Outlaw Programmer" said that Texas is the only state that can "legally" secede from the union when this topic was last discussed in the Soapbox. What I think is we may have a new GOP candidate for president in 2012 named Perry.

According to the article, both Simons and Perry are wrong. "Just FYI, on Perry's 1845 statement, Texas came into the union with the ability to divide into five states, not withdraw. After seceding during the Civil War, Texas was allowed to re-enter the union after ratifying the 13th Amendment. The 13th Amendment banned slavery in the United States and any territory subject to its jurisdiction. UPDATED: Texas v White, a U.S. Supreme Court case decided in 1869, said Texas cannot secede."

"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Stan, if you don't care about them and they don't care about themselves

When did I say that? I just don't see a difference between a marixist america and a marxist china. In fact, I think I would prefer the latter, at least they've had time to work our more of the kinks.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Synaptrik

Not all, but red states are subsidized by blue states. And California and many others have thriving agriculture, so.... How much food does Alabama produce?

This statement is false

Mike Gaskey

Stan Shannon wrote:

at least they've had time to work our more of the kinks

and are more honest about their form of government

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Stan Shannon

What did you think of the Indy tea party? I was there for about an hour. I was impressed by it.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Stan Shannon

Chris Austin wrote:

But, I don't think we have to choose from either of those options.

Maybe not, but it doesn't look good.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Mike Gaskey

Stan Shannon wrote:

What did you think of the Indy tea party?

Stan - I thought it was great. I got there very early so I was able to be way up front. It was very positive. Really great to see folks gathered peacefully to voice their opinions. The only downside I witnesed was Gregg Garrison who when speaking made it a Republican vs. Demoocrat thing. I believe there were a number of conservative Democrats in the audience that would have been put off by his comments. I don't know if you were there to see the speakers but the speakers included: A Pakistani who was a naturalized citizen and was adamant about sticking to our roots Another immigrant, a naturalized citizen from Ireland, who specifically addressed European Socialism and socialized healthcare. She and her husband had left Ireland and relocated to London and after 2 years packed it all in and headed here. She had -0- good opinion of life in Europe. A local who was passionate about the crap going on today. All in all - terrific. Looks like there will be another, I think on the 4th of July, and a march on Washington in October just as budgets are being approved for the next physical year. I'll be taking part in both. The Indianapolis Star said there were 2,500 there. I'd guess more on the order of 10,000 but like I said, I was at the front and couldn't really guess at the depth or density of the crowd behind me. I think the MSM and current government officials are completely underestimating the impact. This is a real bottom up thing. It'll have staying power and 2010 will be an election to watch.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Stan Shannon

I got there at about 4:30 after driving down from Anderson. I could only stay an hour so I left about the time Garrison began speaking. I heard the Pakistani guy. Too bad I missed the Irish couple. I was towards the back and guessed the crowd to be 2000 to 3000. The crowd was very densely packed over the front half of the capital grounds but became less crowded towards the road. The sidewalks around the capital were relatively free of congestion when I was walking around. Still, a respectable turn out. I knew any number of people who wanted to go but just couldn't make it on a work day.

Mike Gaskey wrote:

I think the MSM and current government officials are completely underestimating the impact. This is a real bottom up thing. It'll have staying power and 2010 will be an election to watch.

Time will tell, but I tend to agree with you, especially given the reaction from the government and their media affiliates. A lot of people who might have dismissed the entire thing otherwise will lend support just to make a point. If the economy worsens, if the Obama administration contines to push its collectivist agenda, and if there is any increase in terrorist activity any where against the US homeland, this could turn into a very real and solid movement.

Mike Gaskey wrote:

The only downside I witnesed was Gregg Garrison who when speaking made it a Republican vs. Demoocrat thing.

If I had had the time, I actually wanted to put little plastic toy knives on the back of my jacket to represent all the times I have been stabbed in the back by republicans. I loath Obama and the democrats, but I am not angry at them. They are who they are and they apparently don't care who knows. My anger is entirely at the republicans who simply refuse to fight for those of us who put them into power with the same passion that the democrats fight for those who vote for them.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Mike Gaskey

I had one very interesting conversation there, several actually but one that really stuck with me. It was with a woman around my age. She and her husband had met at a GM facility and married years ago. Both are now retired and living on a GM pension. Both were pissed about the GM bailout even though a GM failure could erase those pensions they felt the company should fail. I think that was telling, people willing to risk their financial security for their personal principles.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.