I very stupid opinion about IQ

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

I know you cannot be saying that octo-mom is one of the best and brightest.

I meant "life" as in not being supported by the state or your parents.

Oakman wrote:

fwiw: my experience is that people who don't do as well on IQ tests as they think they should immediately announce that the test is biased, and attempts to measure the unmeasurable. And they invariably label those who do do well on the test as "arrogant."

What should they do? Accept the bureaucratic consequencies of the test? "Gee, that guy in the white coat says I'm not so bright. Hey, maybe I can just have kids by envitro fertilization and be supported by the state..." I do think that IQ tests probably accurately define how well a person will perform in a certain cultural context. It should not be at all surprising that a person raised in a particular culture would perform better on an IQ test given by that culture than would someone from some other culture or background. I don't believe for a minute that any IQ test can measure general human cognitive ability, but merely how intellectually adapted someone is to a given culture.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

I don't believe for a minute that any IQ test can measure general human cognitive ability

I do, but then I score very well on them. :cool:

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

I do, but then I score very well on them

So, you take a lot of them do you? Than why are you such a dumb fuck? :laugh:

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

So, you take a lot of them do you?

Nawww. Mensa keeps begging me to come back, but down here the lapel pin doesn't get too much recognition at the dances at the VFW on Saturday night, you know?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Mensa keeps begging me to come back,

Suuuurrrrreeee. What ever you say, Jon.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Suuuurrrrreeee. What ever you say, Jon.

well, I don't blame you. On the internet we're all blonde, buff, and blue-eyed.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Ilion

Oakman wrote:

I think I am reading you wrong. I know you cannot be saying that octo-mom is one of the best and brightest.

Of course, you're just engaging in "trollery."

Lost User

...and the world turns. :D

- F

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

And they invariably label those who do do well on the test as "arrogant."

Especially if they join Mensa. :)

Bob Emmett

John Carson

Stan Shannon wrote:

Perhaps the reason the wealthy have higher IQs than the poor is that they already fiqured out how to raise smart children. And the reason they figured that out without needing to be told how by Kristof and Nisbett is because they have higher IQs.

Perhaps. And your point is? How does this contradict anything Kristof says.

Stan Shannon wrote:

If everyone raised their children precisely the way Kristof and Nisbett suggest, and the predicted increase in average IQ were achieved, there would still be an average IQ and it is highly probable that the rich would still be disproportionately represented on the high end. Why? Because it is more likely than not that people with higher IQs will achieve more in any sort of merit based society than will people with lower IQs.

Perhaps. And your point is? How does this contradict anything Kristof says.

Stan Shannon wrote:

The odds are that IQ tests, just as with the public education system, keep getting dumbed down in order to validate the biases that liberalism is so heavily invested

If you weren't talking out of your arse, you would know that there has been a long term trend for IQ scores to drift up using any given test. To prevent this upward drift, IQ tests have steadily been revised to make them more difficult. Just what this upward drift in IQ means is much debated. Almost certainly people are becoming more skilled in the type of abstract thinking that IQ tests test, but to what extent they are becoming more intelligent in general is less clear. I am pleased to see that you have improved your reading source material. Now, if you can just get to the stage of understanding the point of the articles, you will have made a great leap forward.

John Carson

John Carson

Rob Graham wrote:

Only an idiot would believe that I.Q. tests measure anything other than the arrogance of those who design and administer such tests.

The humility of the author of those words just shines through. And the accuracy. IQ tests test the arrogance of those who design and administer such tests. And the scores people achieve on the tests test that how exactly?

Rob Graham wrote:

Intelligence is not a well-defined concept and it is not subject to precise measurement as any psychologist worth a darn already knows.

A point that Kristof pretty much acknowledges ("I.Q. doesn’t measure pure intellect — we’re not certain exactly what it does measure"). But I guess the truly humble are not constrained to make points that relate to the article they are purporting to comment on.

Rob Graham wrote:

The article shows a profound lack of understanding as to exactly what an IQ score is, as well as ignorance as to the difference between correlation and causation.

At what point(s) in the article is this lack of understanding and ignorance demonstrated? Your comments strike me as lazy boilerplate. Distinguishing correlation and causation is a problem for any statistical analysis and no definitive solution is ever possible. You provide no evidence that the Kristof article is especially vulnerable on this point.

John Carson

Stan Shannon

John Carson wrote:

Perhaps. And your point is? How does this contradict anything Kristof says.

I wasn't attempting to contradict the article. There was nothing to contradict. The point is that the article is part of a general liberal narrative publications such as the Times promote. "Oh, if only people as superior as we are had more control over society, we could make things so much better for everyone. Why, we could even make people almost as smart as we are."

John Carson wrote:

If you weren't talking out of your arse, you would know that there has been a long term trend for IQ scores to drift up using any given test. To prevent this upward drift, IQ tests have steadily been revised to make them more difficult. Just what this upward drift in IQ means is much debated. Almost certainly people are becoming more skilled in the type of abstract thinking that IQ tests test, but to what extent they are becoming more intelligent in general is less clear.

Gee, ya think that might be because some people are smart enough to prepare for them?

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Chris Austin

Back in college, a good friend's dad was a disgruntled Mensa member. He had lots of stories about them. When I told him I had never taken an IQ test he congratulated me :laugh: Of course as it relates to children, my friend/ his son was just about the most independent and self motivated 21 year old I have ever know. He wasn't at the top of our small graduating class (that was the pot head) but he was very bright.

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

Oakman

Bob Emmett wrote:

Especially if they join Mensa.

At 22, I just knew that I was the brightest, most talented, and handsomest creature to ever walk the face of this earth. Of course, I am much older wiser than that now. ;)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Gee, ya think that might be because some people are smart enough to prepare for them?

so why weren't you?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

so why weren't you?

To the best of my memory, I've never actually had an official, administered IQ test. Although, I've always scored high on entrance exams and aptitude tests will little effort. In college we took a practice IQ test as part of a class and I scored something like 120, far short of mensa material, I'm afraid. But, then, I didn't prepare for it since it wasn't for any official purpose.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

At 22, I just knew that I was the brightest, most talented, and handsomest

What the fuck happened? :laugh:

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

What the f*** happened

I grew up. Why didn't you?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

But, then, I didn't prepare for it since it wasn't for any official purpose.

Best way to prepare for IQ tests, is to be born very smart. It certainly helps to have parents that encourage their child in intellectual pursuits and teachers who recognize intelligence when they see it. But if you don't have the right stuff, you'll never break out of the pack.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Best way to prepare for IQ tests, is to be born very smart

I'll take your word for it. :)

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.