Common Sense

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

Congressional Progressive Caucus

I'm sure he wants to support them...[^] But, hey, lets not call them what they really are - Marxists.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Christian Graus

Stan Shannon wrote:

By reducing the level of care everyone else gets.

I have been to the doctor in the US, and I don't see how that is physically possible. I get better care under 'socialised' medicine in Australia, by a LONG shot, even if I went to a cheap doctor.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

But, thanks for playing

Did he win a booby prize?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

By reducing the level of care everyone else gets.

That does seem to be the Canadian system. (A Canadian friend of mine is celebrating - next month she actually gets into see an orthopedic surgeon - something she's been trying to arrange for the last 18 months since she was hit as she crossed the street by a teenager driving through a red light.) However, if I understand it correctly, in Australia, there is a basic minimum health care available that is paid for by taxes. Since not everyone works, but everyone is covered, this is definitely a single-payer national health plan. However, you can also get more/better health care if you've got the bread by buying additional insurance. Just as you can over here. As Rob pointed out awhile back, some sort of national healthcare would get the costs off the back of the business community, allowing them to be much more competitive with businesses in other countries.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

But, hey, lets not call them what they really are - Marxists.

Groucho, Harpo, or Zeppo? Personally, I think they're Lennonists. All sitting around smoking dope and singing "Give Peace a Chance. . ."

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Christian Graus wrote:

I have been to the a doctor in the US and was amazed to discover that I wasn't going to be let off without paying for services rendered. I could have purchased insurance before I left but I gambled and lost and it really pisses me off when I lose.

FTFY ;)

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

That does seem to be the Canadian system. (A Canadian friend of mine is celebrating - next month she actually gets into see an orthopedic surgeon - something she's been trying to arrange for the last 18 months since she was hit as she crossed the street by a teenager driving through a red light.)

And I know plenty of people who, say, need valve replacements who get them that week. Plenty of people who need knee replacements who get them within a month. Plenty of people with hip fractures that get repaired overnight. And plenty of people with orthopedic conditions that the literature suggests would be as well if not better served by exercises than surgery but would just prefer surgery because it's easier. Not saying that she's not being made to wait an awfully long time or being treated unfairly by the system because it does happen, but there are reasons to get surgery done and there are reasons to get surgery done. Unsurprisingly, you wait less time for the latter and I've rarely heard anyone bitch about them or one of their loved ones not getting into surgery quickly when it is unequivocally necessary.

- F

Christian Graus

I usually have insurance, but that's not really the point. The point is not the $500 a GP visit cost me, but the terrible standard of care that I got for my $500. How much does a real doctor cost in the US, right now ?

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Christian Graus

Oakman wrote:

However, if I understand it correctly, in Australia, there is a basic minimum health care available that is paid for by taxes. Since not everyone works, but everyone is covered, this is definitely a single-payer national health plan. However, you can also get more/better health care if you've got the bread by buying additional insurance. Just as you can over here.

Yes, it seems to me that we have the best of both worlds here, I would not like to be under the Canadian ,OR the US system.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

Captain See Sharp

Christian Graus wrote:

We don't have 12 trillion in debt.

We will soon with Obama's budget and all the spending going on.

John Carson

Oakman wrote:

Since Friday, the news shows, especially on the cable stations, have been yammering on about Swine Flu as if the 4 horsemen of the Apocalypse had been seen riding down from the clouds. My friends in Canada tell me it's the same there. Every year we have a real influenza epidemic. EVERY year thousands of people die from the 'flu, including 83 children in 2008. Yet there is NO panic, and people who are susceptible still don't get the shot. Yet if there was a shot for swine flu, these same people would line around the block for it.

I basically agree with you. However, it is worth pointing out that the flu epidemic that began in 1918 killed more people than WWI. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu[^] Accordingly, there is some basis for being nervous if it looks like an unusually virulent flu is on the way.

John Carson

Lost User

Oakman wrote:

Did he win a booby prize?

mmm boobies. Unlikely though

Shog9 0

Sometimes, i really miss voting in this forum... :)

Chris Austin

:-D

Sovereign ingredient for a happy marriage: Pay cash or do without. Interest charges not only eat up a household budget; awareness of debt eats up domestic felicity. --Lazarus Long Avoid the crowd. Do your own thinking independently. Be the chess player, not the chess piece. --Ralph Charell

Christian Graus

That means bugger all to me. I am not a yank.

Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "I am new to programming world. I have been learning c# for about past four weeks. I am quite acquainted with the fundamentals of c#. Now I have to work on a project which converts given flat files to XML using the XML serialization method" - SK64 ( but the forums have stuff like this posted every day )

phannon86

So, let me get this straight. You want to fly on a magic carpet to see the King of the Potato People and plead with him for your freedom, and you're telling me you are completely sane?! I think that warrants 2 hours of W.O.O.

He who makes a beast out of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man

Lost User

I had the same thoughts too. Why the overreaction to this, and also bird flu? Perhaps ots the 'cross species' aspect, or that it isnt just the 'good olod flu that goes aorund every year and kills half a million'. Bizare, and the stock markets having a fit over it. Mind you its overvalued right now anyway so I think its just an excuse for a dip.

Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription

Mike Gaskey

Christian Graus wrote:

OK, so you're saying that people won't become doctors if it means they are accountable for their actions ?

not at all, it'll be because the government will control their income.

Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.

Rob Graham

You certainly draw a sweeping conclusion from a single bad experience. Do you never consider that you might just have encountered a boundary case?

Oakman

Fisticuffs wrote:

Unsurprisingly, you wait less time for the latter and I've rarely heard anyone bitch about them or one of their loved ones not getting into surgery quickly when it is unequivocally necessary.

Perhaps I was unclear. 18 months after the accident, she is finally getting into see an orthopedic surgeon who can decided whether getting into surgery is unequivocally necessary. I certainly hope you are right that once the decision is made, the action comes quickly. She has waited long enough.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin