Who Would Jesus Torture?
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The more often Americans go to church, the more likely they are to support the torture of suspected terrorists, according to a new survey. More than half of people who attend services at least once a week -- 54 percent -- said the use of torture against suspected terrorists is "often" or "sometimes" justified. Only 42 percent of people who "seldom or never" go to services agreed, according to the analysis released Wednesday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life. White evangelical Protestants were the religious group most likely to say torture is often or sometimes justified -- more than six in 10 supported it. People unaffiliated with any religious organization were least likely to back it. Only four in 10 of them did.[^]
Seems to me you are mistaking the religion for the object of veneration. Whatever Yeshua ben Yussif might have done, there is no account of his being a torturer and a relatively reliable account or two of his being tortured by the Italians. Besides, CNN, and therefore you, is cherry picking the figures. Looking at the data as reported we discover that only 1 in 4 Americans thinks torture is never justified. When we look at those attending religious services weekly we discovere that - only 1 in 4 thinks torture is never justified. When we look at those who attend monthly or a few times a year we discover that the percentage of those who say that torture is never justives plummets all the way from 25% to 23%. And when we look at those who seldom or never go to church (whch would include me) we find that indeed a grand smacking total of 26% of them feel that torture makes no difference. Big Fucking Deal.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
ask him.
The opportunity to do that expired about 2,000 years ago.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
The opportunity to do that expired about 2,000 years ago.
you may get another shot.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Seems to me you are mistaking the religion for the object of veneration. Whatever Yeshua ben Yussif might have done, there is no account of his being a torturer and a relatively reliable account or two of his being tortured by the Italians. Besides, CNN, and therefore you, is cherry picking the figures. Looking at the data as reported we discover that only 1 in 4 Americans thinks torture is never justified. When we look at those attending religious services weekly we discovere that - only 1 in 4 thinks torture is never justified. When we look at those who attend monthly or a few times a year we discover that the percentage of those who say that torture is never justives plummets all the way from 25% to 23%. And when we look at those who seldom or never go to church (whch would include me) we find that indeed a grand smacking total of 26% of them feel that torture makes no difference. Big Fucking Deal.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
?
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Ed Gadziemski wrote: ? I'm sorry Ed. let me put it another way: Approximately 25% of all Americans are against torture under all circumstances. The rest might disagree about what circumstances warrant it, but that just arguing about the price, not whether or not to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether they go to church a lot, a little or never, the results are the same. The CNN article is bs.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Ed Gadziemski wrote: ? I'm sorry Ed. let me put it another way: Approximately 25% of all Americans are against torture under all circumstances. The rest might disagree about what circumstances warrant it, but that just arguing about the price, not whether or not to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether they go to church a lot, a little or never, the results are the same. The CNN article is bs.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
I'm sorry Ed. let me put it another way: Approximately 25% of all Americans are against torture under all circumstances. The rest might disagree about what circumstances warrant it, but that just arguing about the price, not whether or not to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether they go to church a lot, a little or never, the results are the same. The CNN article is bs.
Yes, the CNN article is BS (Honestly! Would he have posted it otherwise?). But then, there's a touch of BS in your response, too, as the meaning of 'torture' has lately been under tortured by the Hate-America-First crowd and you are playing with that "definition" of the word/concept.
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Oakman wrote:
I'm sorry Ed. let me put it another way: Approximately 25% of all Americans are against torture under all circumstances. The rest might disagree about what circumstances warrant it, but that just arguing about the price, not whether or not to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether they go to church a lot, a little or never, the results are the same. The CNN article is bs.
Yes, the CNN article is BS (Honestly! Would he have posted it otherwise?). But then, there's a touch of BS in your response, too, as the meaning of 'torture' has lately been under tortured by the Hate-America-First crowd and you are playing with that "definition" of the word/concept.
Ilíon wrote: and you are playing with that "definition" of the word/concept. You want to claim that Yeshua wasn't tortured? Losing your faith, are you?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Ed Gadziemski wrote: ? I'm sorry Ed. let me put it another way: Approximately 25% of all Americans are against torture under all circumstances. The rest might disagree about what circumstances warrant it, but that just arguing about the price, not whether or not to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether they go to church a lot, a little or never, the results are the same. The CNN article is bs.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
I just cut and pasted part of the CNN article. I didn't comment on it one way or the other. I'm among the 25% against torture under any circumstances. I don't recall it working very well when the North Vietnamese used it against Americans, so I doubt it would work very well when Americans use it against our foes.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
The opportunity to do that expired about 2,000 years ago.
you may get another shot.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
you may get another shot
I hope so. I have many questions.
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I just cut and pasted part of the CNN article. I didn't comment on it one way or the other. I'm among the 25% against torture under any circumstances. I don't recall it working very well when the North Vietnamese used it against Americans, so I doubt it would work very well when Americans use it against our foes.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
I don't recall it working very well when the North Vietnamese used it against Americans, so I doubt it would work very well when Americans use it against our foes.
If it didn't work, why did they keep doing it?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
I don't recall it working very well when the North Vietnamese used it against Americans, so I doubt it would work very well when Americans use it against our foes.
If it didn't work, why did they keep doing it?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
If it didn't work, why did they keep doing it
Sadism makes them feel good? Revenge against foreign invaders? Who knows?
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Ilíon wrote: and you are playing with that "definition" of the word/concept. You want to claim that Yeshua wasn't tortured? Losing your faith, are you?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Stan Shannon wrote:
If it didn't work, why did they keep doing it
Sadism makes them feel good? Revenge against foreign invaders? Who knows?
Ed Gadziemski wrote: Sadism makes them feel good? Revenge against foreign invaders? Who knows? All of the above. There was a lot of torture in Vietnam - on both sides. Often not of the other side's soldiers but of peasants who might know something. No matter how brave a man is, he is unlikely to keep silent very long if his mother is under the knife, or his wife, sister, or father.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Ed Gadziemski wrote: Sadism makes them feel good? Revenge against foreign invaders? Who knows? All of the above. There was a lot of torture in Vietnam - on both sides. Often not of the other side's soldiers but of peasants who might know something. No matter how brave a man is, he is unlikely to keep silent very long if his mother is under the knife, or his wife, sister, or father.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
+5 most lucid argument I've heard yet on the subject.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
If it didn't work, why did they keep doing it
Sadism makes them feel good? Revenge against foreign invaders? Who knows?
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
Sadism makes them feel good? Revenge against foreign invaders? Who knows?
Or perhaps because they realized that not every human being on the planet reacts in exactly the same way to being tortured or seeing their friends tortured. If only one in ten gave up a little useful information, it was all good.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
I'm sorry Ed. let me put it another way: Approximately 25% of all Americans are against torture under all circumstances. The rest might disagree about what circumstances warrant it, but that just arguing about the price, not whether or not to pay for it. It doesn't matter whether they go to church a lot, a little or never, the results are the same. The CNN article is bs.
Yes, the CNN article is BS (Honestly! Would he have posted it otherwise?). But then, there's a touch of BS in your response, too, as the meaning of 'torture' has lately been under tortured by the Hate-America-First crowd and you are playing with that "definition" of the word/concept.
-
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
I don't recall it working very well when the North Vietnamese used it against Americans, so I doubt it would work very well when Americans use it against our foes.
If it didn't work, why did they keep doing it?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
What was George Washington's response to the horrendous acts committed by the British? Who were among many things, quartering Americans. Its not rhetorical although I know the answer. But, torture was very much against what the founding fathers practiced.
This statement is false
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What was George Washington's response to the horrendous acts committed by the British? Who were among many things, quartering Americans. Its not rhetorical although I know the answer. But, torture was very much against what the founding fathers practiced.
This statement is false
Synaptrik wrote:
What was George Washington's response to the horrendous acts committed by the British? Who were among many things, quartering Americans. Its not rhetorical although I know the answer. But, torture was very much against what the founding fathers practiced.
No, they just forced everyone who disagreed with them to flee their new country or face hanging. Wow, were those great guys er whut?
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
-
Mike Gaskey wrote:
you may get another shot
I hope so. I have many questions.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote: Sadism makes them feel good? Revenge against foreign invaders? Who knows? All of the above. There was a lot of torture in Vietnam - on both sides. Often not of the other side's soldiers but of peasants who might know something. No matter how brave a man is, he is unlikely to keep silent very long if his mother is under the knife, or his wife, sister, or father.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
There was a lot of torture in Vietnam - on both sides. Often not of the other side's soldiers but of peasants who might know something. No matter how brave a man is, he is unlikely to keep silent very long if his mother is under the knife, or his wife, sister, or father.
Remind me of who won that one. I am sure you are right about keeping silent. However, among other issues, one needs to ask: 1. Is the information accurate? 2. How much support is lost by employing those tactics?
John Carson
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+5 most lucid argument I've heard yet on the subject.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
+5 most lucid argument I've heard yet on the subject.
Another argument you might like to consider: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brandon-friedman/torture-advocates-will-se_b_194316.html[^]
John Carson