Now here's an idea
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Why don't we see if we can pass legislation to control the salary of executives in the financial industry?[^] Isn't America becoming a wonderful place? I wonder why could go wrong in this round of class warfare?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Why don't we see if we can pass legislation to control the salary of executives in the financial industry?[^] Isn't America becoming a wonderful place? I wonder why could go wrong in this round of class warfare?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Well Mike, maybe you should read that more carefully. It does not say anything about controlling salaries, but rather talks about regulating the basis for incentive packages, nor is it limited to "executives". Maybe if the financial industry had been a bit more responsible recently, this wouldn't be happening to them.
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Why don't we see if we can pass legislation to control the salary of executives in the financial industry?[^] Isn't America becoming a wonderful place? I wonder why could go wrong in this round of class warfare?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Here's my favorite part from the article: "At the same time, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D., Mass.) is working on legislation that could strengthen the government's ability both to monitor compensation and to curb incentives that threaten a company's viability or pose a systemic risk to the economy." Mr. Frank has certainly demonstrated how wisely he exercises his power when it comes to monitoring companies whose activities pose a systemic risk to the economy. It could not be more clear how farsighted and perceptive he is. The problem for me is not that the financial industry may regulated, it is rather that the folks who will make the regulations have proved themselves to be, to coin a phrase, *fools* and *liars." Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Well Mike, maybe you should read that more carefully. It does not say anything about controlling salaries, but rather talks about regulating the basis for incentive packages, nor is it limited to "executives". Maybe if the financial industry had been a bit more responsible recently, this wouldn't be happening to them.
Rob Graham wrote:
maybe you should
think.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Here's my favorite part from the article: "At the same time, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D., Mass.) is working on legislation that could strengthen the government's ability both to monitor compensation and to curb incentives that threaten a company's viability or pose a systemic risk to the economy." Mr. Frank has certainly demonstrated how wisely he exercises his power when it comes to monitoring companies whose activities pose a systemic risk to the economy. It could not be more clear how farsighted and perceptive he is. The problem for me is not that the financial industry may regulated, it is rather that the folks who will make the regulations have proved themselves to be, to coin a phrase, *fools* and *liars." Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
The problem for me
the government has no business whatsoever regulating compensation.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Oakman wrote:
The problem for me
the government has no business whatsoever regulating compensation.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
the government has no business whatsoever regulating compensation.
I agree. The government also has no business allowing people to shirk personal responsibility by creating a fictitious "peson" called a corporation and thereby hiding their assets from people they owe money to. Likewise the government has no business allowing corporations to unilaterally void contracts by declaring bankruptcy. The problem with a lot of financial conservatives (I am not pointing at you, I don't think I know what your position is) is that they want the gravy of government control, but don't want to eat the spinach. I am pretty sure that the libertarian idea of not letting CEOs and such hide behind their corporations will never fly. After all we have the best government money can buy. So if we are feeding them the gravy, we might as well make 'em eat their vegetables, too.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
the government has no business whatsoever regulating compensation.
I agree. The government also has no business allowing people to shirk personal responsibility by creating a fictitious "peson" called a corporation and thereby hiding their assets from people they owe money to. Likewise the government has no business allowing corporations to unilaterally void contracts by declaring bankruptcy. The problem with a lot of financial conservatives (I am not pointing at you, I don't think I know what your position is) is that they want the gravy of government control, but don't want to eat the spinach. I am pretty sure that the libertarian idea of not letting CEOs and such hide behind their corporations will never fly. After all we have the best government money can buy. So if we are feeding them the gravy, we might as well make 'em eat their vegetables, too.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
We agree. The more I read and study our founding the more I retch at what we've become. Contracts should be sacred, losers allowed to fail.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Well Mike, maybe you should read that more carefully. It does not say anything about controlling salaries, but rather talks about regulating the basis for incentive packages, nor is it limited to "executives". Maybe if the financial industry had been a bit more responsible recently, this wouldn't be happening to them.
Rob Graham wrote:
Maybe if the financial industry had been a bit more responsible recently, this wouldn't be happening to them.
If responsability was the key attribute, congress would have killed each other off, circular firing squad style, long ago.
Rob Graham wrote:
this wouldn't be happening to them.
You don't have any concerns that an administration preoccupied with "social justice" would take this as precedence to go way beyond?
Visit BoneSoft.com for code generation tools (XML & XSD -> C#, VB, etc...) and some free developer tools as well.
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We agree. The more I read and study our founding the more I retch at what we've become. Contracts should be sacred, losers allowed to fail.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
I agree as well Mike. The real problem hear is not so much what the Obama administration and Barney Crank want to do, as it is what companies investment (and regular) banks have done to themselves by begging government to become shareholders. Ownership by the government should have been disallowed, and the banks that begged for rescue allowed to fail. The same goes for car companies. Now that it is too late, and government is a shareholder, government has a perfect right (acting as a majority owner) to regulate compensation (but only for those banks it is a majority owner of). Bush and Paulson sold us down the river. Bush should have fired Paulson, vetoed TARP and allowed the investment banks to fail. The damage might have been worse, but the recovery would have begun by now, and would have been a healing rather than the nursing of the wounded that it has become.
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We agree. The more I read and study our founding the more I retch at what we've become. Contracts should be sacred, losers allowed to fail.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
Contracts should be sacred, losers allowed to fail.
:thumbsup: Throw in protection from coercion by force and Stan will never speak to you again. ;)
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
the government has no business whatsoever regulating compensation.
I agree. The government also has no business allowing people to shirk personal responsibility by creating a fictitious "peson" called a corporation and thereby hiding their assets from people they owe money to. Likewise the government has no business allowing corporations to unilaterally void contracts by declaring bankruptcy. The problem with a lot of financial conservatives (I am not pointing at you, I don't think I know what your position is) is that they want the gravy of government control, but don't want to eat the spinach. I am pretty sure that the libertarian idea of not letting CEOs and such hide behind their corporations will never fly. After all we have the best government money can buy. So if we are feeding them the gravy, we might as well make 'em eat their vegetables, too.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
but don't want to eat the spinach.
I don't understand why anyone would ever not want to eat spinach. :)
You really gotta try harder to keep up with everyone that's not on the short bus with you. - John Simmons / outlaw programmer.
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Oakman wrote:
but don't want to eat the spinach.
I don't understand why anyone would ever not want to eat spinach. :)
You really gotta try harder to keep up with everyone that's not on the short bus with you. - John Simmons / outlaw programmer.
Brady Kelly wrote:
I don't understand why anyone would ever not want to eat spinach
Anyone who will eat spinach will eat olive oil.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
the government has no business whatsoever regulating compensation.
I agree. The government also has no business allowing people to shirk personal responsibility by creating a fictitious "peson" called a corporation and thereby hiding their assets from people they owe money to. Likewise the government has no business allowing corporations to unilaterally void contracts by declaring bankruptcy. The problem with a lot of financial conservatives (I am not pointing at you, I don't think I know what your position is) is that they want the gravy of government control, but don't want to eat the spinach. I am pretty sure that the libertarian idea of not letting CEOs and such hide behind their corporations will never fly. After all we have the best government money can buy. So if we are feeding them the gravy, we might as well make 'em eat their vegetables, too.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
people to shirk personal responsibility by creating a fictitious "peson" called a corporation
I really think that extending this has some benefits. If they're persons under the law, and thus benefit from the protection of the constitution then they can't own other persons, and a guilty verdict of murder isn't civil it requires the death penalty. The corporate person is killed. A Corporate person has all the advantages and none of the penalties. Its unfair competition in the business of citizenry.
This statement is false
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Here's my favorite part from the article: "At the same time, House Financial Services Committee Chairman Barney Frank (D., Mass.) is working on legislation that could strengthen the government's ability both to monitor compensation and to curb incentives that threaten a company's viability or pose a systemic risk to the economy." Mr. Frank has certainly demonstrated how wisely he exercises his power when it comes to monitoring companies whose activities pose a systemic risk to the economy. It could not be more clear how farsighted and perceptive he is. The problem for me is not that the financial industry may regulated, it is rather that the folks who will make the regulations have proved themselves to be, to coin a phrase, *fools* and *liars." Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
If any of such regulation is enforced it should be decided in a trial for each business , possibly the supreme court. I can see them reinforcing the power they are using now which is to strike down a company at their own command.
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I agree as well Mike. The real problem hear is not so much what the Obama administration and Barney Crank want to do, as it is what companies investment (and regular) banks have done to themselves by begging government to become shareholders. Ownership by the government should have been disallowed, and the banks that begged for rescue allowed to fail. The same goes for car companies. Now that it is too late, and government is a shareholder, government has a perfect right (acting as a majority owner) to regulate compensation (but only for those banks it is a majority owner of). Bush and Paulson sold us down the river. Bush should have fired Paulson, vetoed TARP and allowed the investment banks to fail. The damage might have been worse, but the recovery would have begun by now, and would have been a healing rather than the nursing of the wounded that it has become.
Rob Graham wrote:
The real problem
If I understand your point, both sides are wrong - and I couldn't agree any more strenuously.
Rob Graham wrote:
Now that it is too late, and government is a shareholder
this really, really bothers me - not your opinion, but the fact you point out. I can see a future that has the government with its fingers in virtually everything from "appropriate" bank balances to mandates that two car families must have at least one GM vehicle - for the good of the country.
Rob Graham wrote:
Bush and Paulson sold us down the river.
and refused us a paddle.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Oakman wrote:
people to shirk personal responsibility by creating a fictitious "peson" called a corporation
I really think that extending this has some benefits. If they're persons under the law, and thus benefit from the protection of the constitution then they can't own other persons, and a guilty verdict of murder isn't civil it requires the death penalty. The corporate person is killed. A Corporate person has all the advantages and none of the penalties. Its unfair competition in the business of citizenry.
This statement is false
Synaptrik wrote:
The corporate person is killed.
Not enough blood. I want to see the CEO drawn and quartered and his wife and children put out on the street, penniless. I will always remember the wife of the CEO of Enron, assuring the company's recently-out-of-work ex-employees that she and her husband shared their pain - they had even been forced to sell their mountain-top chalet to pay his legal expenses. :((
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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If any of such regulation is enforced it should be decided in a trial for each business , possibly the supreme court. I can see them reinforcing the power they are using now which is to strike down a company at their own command.
Intel 4004 wrote:
If any of such regulation is enforced it should be decided in a trial for each business , possibly the supreme court.
The Supreme Court doesn't hold trials.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Rob Graham wrote:
The real problem
If I understand your point, both sides are wrong - and I couldn't agree any more strenuously.
Rob Graham wrote:
Now that it is too late, and government is a shareholder
this really, really bothers me - not your opinion, but the fact you point out. I can see a future that has the government with its fingers in virtually everything from "appropriate" bank balances to mandates that two car families must have at least one GM vehicle - for the good of the country.
Rob Graham wrote:
Bush and Paulson sold us down the river.
and refused us a paddle.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
can see a future that has the government with its fingers in virtually everything
It will take the arrival of some new fiscal conservatives and small government believers to have any hope of reversing this. A large part of my anger with the republican party comes from it's continued myopic focus on social conservatism at the expense of everything else.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
can see a future that has the government with its fingers in virtually everything
It will take the arrival of some new fiscal conservatives and small government believers to have any hope of reversing this. A large part of my anger with the republican party comes from it's continued myopic focus on social conservatism at the expense of everything else.
Rob Graham wrote:
It will take the arrival of some new fiscal conservatives and small government believers to have any hope of reversing this.
Sorry, it was discovered that too many of those so-called fiscal conservatives did not care what happened in people's bedrooms. In addition, they aren't interested in burning books, repealing the 13th Amendment, or stripping anyone of the right to vote for smoking marijuana or being a Catholic. Further, many of them opposed earmarks. :omg: They have all been drummed out of the party and ordered to return to the Socialist hell from whence they came. After which a prayer service was held.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
can see a future that has the government with its fingers in virtually everything
It will take the arrival of some new fiscal conservatives and small government believers to have any hope of reversing this. A large part of my anger with the republican party comes from it's continued myopic focus on social conservatism at the expense of everything else.
Rob Graham wrote:
It will take the arrival of some new fiscal conservatives and small government believers to have any hope of reversing this.
There's hope for 2010 and beyond.[^]
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.