Looking Askance

Stan Shannon

Tim Craig wrote:

the good old days that really never were

Says who?

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Oakman

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think what you're saying here is that public opinion/support will eventually swing back to Republicanism.

He'll correct you. Stan is all about policies, not team colors. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

You never ever could win a war

Maybe not, but you can lose one, big time. Ask the Hector and Priam. Ask Darius III. Ask Hannibal. Ask Harald II. Ask Der Fuehrer.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

I disappeared for a few months and the old Soapbox vanished

We told John Simmons to fuck off when he came in and told us we were picking on Ilion by voting his messages out of existence. We were immediately hacked to the point that people were having their messages removed with scores of 5. Chris blamed the regs and decided to close us down to teach us not to get hacked again. Then he realised that meant we'd all move to the lounge. . . So now we have a forum of our own with no ratings (best thing that could have happened.) :-D

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Says who?

All the history books written for folks in the 7th grade and above.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Tim Craig

On top of Oakman's comments, there's no longer a link to Soapbox 1.0 (Backroom) so you have to know how to find us. I think Chris was hoping SB 2.0 would be everything he hoped it would be and this group would slowly die of attrition. If that was the plan, it seems to have backfired. SB 2.0 is a dumping ground for a few stupid rants and crappy jokes that would get the poster stoned (literally) in the Lounge. Welcome back.

"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!

Daniel Ferguson

Oakman wrote:

He'll correct you. Stan is all about policies, not team colors. You're barking up the wrong tree.

I'd be surprised if anyone is only about policies; I suspect it's actually a matter of degrees. You can tell which way people think based on whether they mention Policies or Parties more often. Stan spends a lot more time talking about parties and he wasn't condemning Bush's policy mistakes for the past eight years.

Oakman wrote:

Maybe not, but you can lose [a war], big time.

That's kind of the point of the quote — you can't win a war, so all you can do is lose.

You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt

Stan Shannon

Oakman wrote:

All the history books written for folks in the 7th grade and above.

So historians all agree there were no good ol' days? So whats the deal, did we finally get it all fixed? We have finally achieved the values and ideals of the founding fathers now that we have unrestricted penis freedom?

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Stan Shannon

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

and he wasn't condemning Bush's policy mistakes for the past eight years.

thats becuase I largely supported his policies. Up until the last few months he was doing a lot more correctly than he was doing incorrectly. I would be happy to condemn the mistakes I think he made - not cutting spending when he had a perfect opportunity to do so and not assuming a more in your face opposition to the vicious criticism he was recieving. If he had stood up and fought for himself, it would have been a lot easier to defend him.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Daniel Ferguson

Oakman wrote:

We were immediately hacked to the point that people were having their messages removed with scores of 5.

Crazy!

Oakman wrote:

So now we have a forum of our own with no ratings

I thought it was weird that there's no ratings in here, but they didn't represent message quality, so I don't miss them.

You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt

Daniel Ferguson

Stan Shannon wrote:

If he had stood up and fought for himself, it would have been a lot easier to defend him.

Yes, it would have been easier to defend him from a personal perspective, but it wouldn't have improved his failed policies. I view Bush as more of a bumbler than as a bad person. It seems like Cheney, Rumsfeld and the others were the drivers behind the really disastrous mistakes.

You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt

Daniel Ferguson

Tim Craig wrote:

there's no longer a link to Soapbox 1.0 (Backroom) so you have to know how to find us

It should be renamed The Secret Lair™. :rolleyes:

Tim Craig wrote:

Welcome back.

Thanks! :-D

You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt

Stan Shannon

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

really disastrous mistakes

They were only mistakes to those who share your world view. His great mistakes were the attempts to give any credence at all to the views of the political opposition. The invastion of Iraq was going to happen sooner or later, just as the invasion of Iran will and the invasion of Pakistan will and probably any number of other such nations. Its going to happen. The left will play their games and let the problems fester until there is simply no alternative to military force. Aside from that and the lack of fiscal discipline, most of Bush's policies were succesful as any attempt by the democrats to change them will quickly verify.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Daniel Ferguson

Stan Shannon wrote:

The left will play their games and let the problems fester until there is simply no alternative to military force.

Wait, did you just admit that there are alternatives to military force? What might those alternatives be, and what's the compelling reason to go to Pakistan and Iraq or Iran anyway?

You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt

Stan Shannon

There are always alternatives to war, but pacifism isn't one of them. Obviously, surrendering to your enemy is an alternative to war. Suffocating him economically before he is powerful enough to make war is an alternative (of course that one means being willing to allow him to let his own citizens die of starvation which is actually more cruel than war). The best alternative to war is, of course, free market capitalism, which simply makes war unnecessary and counter productive. Why drop bombs on your enemy when you can just get him to buy stuff you make.

Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.

Daniel Ferguson

Stan Shannon wrote:

The best alternative to war is, of course, free market capitalism, which simply makes war unnecessary and counter productive. Why drop bombs on your enemy when you can just get him to buy stuff you make.

I'm glad we can agree on that. China's a great example of "trade not war" and it works pretty well.

You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt

Oakman

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

China's a great example of "trade not war" and it works pretty well.

You have got to be kidding. I am relatively sure that we will be in a shooting war with China within the next 5 - 25 years.

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Oakman

Stan Shannon wrote:

Why drop bombs on your enemy when you can just get him to buy stuff you make.

You have been advising the Chinese and Indians, have you? Venezuelans, maybe?

Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin

Ilion

Oakman wrote:

We were immediately hacked to the point that people were having their messages removed with scores of 5.

Not true.

Ilion

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

Oakman: We were immediately hacked to the point that people were having their messages removed with scores of 5. Daniel Ferguson: Crazy!

Crazy or not, that's not what happened. Or, to be more precise, there was no hack, but some posts besides just mine did vanish -- the reaction was highly entertaining.

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

Oakman: So now we have a forum of our own with no ratings Daniel Ferguson: I thought it was weird that there's no ratings in here, but they didn't represent message quality, so I don't miss them.

Don't bother to mourn them. That anonymous ability is the main driver of the childishness ... and boringness ... of the forums.

Tim Craig

Daniel Ferguson wrote:

It should be renamed The Secret Lair™

Sometimes I think it should be called the Bat Cave and not because Batman lives here. :doh:

"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke

I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!