Fellow Stock-Holders. . .
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Given: the 50 billion buckarros that we "lent" or are "lending" to GM is going to be converted into stock. Given: Obama says he doesn't want to run a car company. Presumably Joe Biden does, but wider heads will probably prevail. Therefore, every man woman and child on this planet should receive $1,666 dollars worth of stock. My guess is that they'll do a 100:1 reverse stock split, so call that 16 1/2 shares of the the reborn GM. Make it easy on the accountants and round up if your under forty and round down if you're over. (Younger folks will see more of their taxes go to pay off the loans we took out to buy all the stock.) Now let's have a stock holders meeting and see how many people favor sending jobs to Mexico and China :cool:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Given: the 50 billion buckarros that we "lent" or are "lending" to GM is going to be converted into stock. Given: Obama says he doesn't want to run a car company. Presumably Joe Biden does, but wider heads will probably prevail. Therefore, every man woman and child on this planet should receive $1,666 dollars worth of stock. My guess is that they'll do a 100:1 reverse stock split, so call that 16 1/2 shares of the the reborn GM. Make it easy on the accountants and round up if your under forty and round down if you're over. (Younger folks will see more of their taxes go to pay off the loans we took out to buy all the stock.) Now let's have a stock holders meeting and see how many people favor sending jobs to Mexico and China :cool:
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Therefore
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Oakman wrote:
Therefore
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle
Not so, Mike. The U.K. has given up trying to govern us.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Oakman wrote:
Therefore
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
The issue, I believe, is how many jobs go with GM, including flow on jobs. Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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The issue, I believe, is how many jobs go with GM, including flow on jobs. Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
I'm sure they did or if they had to they would tell us to let the economy reorganize itself naturaly as it should.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
I'm sure they did or if they had to they would tell us to let the economy reorganize itself naturaly as it should.
Captain See Sharp wrote:
I'm sure they did
Why are you ?
Captain See Sharp wrote:
if they had to they would tell us to let the economy reorganize itself naturaly as it should.
My point is, the country and economy will only get worse if you let these big players fall. That's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle
Not so, Mike. The U.K. has given up trying to govern us.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
The U.K. has given up trying to govern us.
okay, we still have something going for us - thanks for the realiy check.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
I'm sure they did
Why are you ?
Captain See Sharp wrote:
if they had to they would tell us to let the economy reorganize itself naturaly as it should.
My point is, the country and economy will only get worse if you let these big players fall. That's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
My point is, the country and economy will only get worse if you let these big players fall. That's the issue.
Temporally the economy will fall, but in the end it will be in better shape because its cancers are gone. Instead it eats away at us like never before, and will continue.
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The issue, I believe, is how many jobs go with GM, including flow on jobs. Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
of course they do. we're a capitalistic society with a republican form of government. capitalism requires cycles of creation and destruction. what is going on now is totally alien and the result will ultimately be devastating. and by the by, the situation now is a by product of government interference to: ensure everyone has a "right" to a home and ensure everyone has a "right" to a decent paying job.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
I'm sure they did
Why are you ?
Captain See Sharp wrote:
if they had to they would tell us to let the economy reorganize itself naturaly as it should.
My point is, the country and economy will only get worse if you let these big players fall. That's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
My point is, the country and economy will only get worse if you let these big players fall.
of course it will, and it has to.
Christian Graus wrote:
That's the issue.
no, it isn't. what the government is doing it is doing with absolutely no authority.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Christian Graus wrote:
My point is, the country and economy will only get worse if you let these big players fall.
of course it will, and it has to.
Christian Graus wrote:
That's the issue.
no, it isn't. what the government is doing it is doing with absolutely no authority.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
I think the bailouts suck. Everyone in Australia ( including many dead people, apparently ), got $900 from the government, and I think that's pathetic. But hell, I own my house, I buy whatever I want, I have money for retirement. Perhaps there are people hurting who will get out of a hole though all this. I think what we did is better than what's been done in the US, where, of course, the poor are always left to die, while the rich dance on their bodies.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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The issue, I believe, is how many jobs go with GM, including flow on jobs. Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
The issue, I believe, is how many jobs go with GM, including flow on jobs
That's what I thought, until I learned that GM was going to be closing down U.S. plants and shipping the work (and the bailout) to China and Mexico.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Christian Graus wrote:
Your founding principles don't consider what to do when private enterprise is holding up the country.
of course they do. we're a capitalistic society with a republican form of government. capitalism requires cycles of creation and destruction. what is going on now is totally alien and the result will ultimately be devastating. and by the by, the situation now is a by product of government interference to: ensure everyone has a "right" to a home and ensure everyone has a "right" to a decent paying job.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">Mike Gaskey wrote:</div>nd by the by, the situation now is a by product of government interference to: ensure everyone has a "right" to a home and ensure everyone has a "right" to a decent paying job. </blockquote> That is probably true. I know that government interference in the market here has ultimately cost me money. I can't deal with the idea of a society without safety nets, however, so long as they are reasonable. Bailing out the rich, is not reasonable. However, they do it because they see no choice.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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Captain See Sharp wrote:
I'm sure they did
Why are you ?
Captain See Sharp wrote:
if they had to they would tell us to let the economy reorganize itself naturaly as it should.
My point is, the country and economy will only get worse if you let these big players fall. That's the issue.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
Why are you ?
Ignore him. he doesn't know enough to keep quiet when the grownups are talking.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Christian Graus wrote:
The issue, I believe, is how many jobs go with GM, including flow on jobs
That's what I thought, until I learned that GM was going to be closing down U.S. plants and shipping the work (and the bailout) to China and Mexico.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Well, in that case, I say, screw em. If there needs to be a bailout at all, it needs to be tied to guarentees that they will keep jobs in the US, and otherwise give the government a return on investment.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
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<blockquote class="FQ"><div class="FQA">Mike Gaskey wrote:</div>nd by the by, the situation now is a by product of government interference to: ensure everyone has a "right" to a home and ensure everyone has a "right" to a decent paying job. </blockquote> That is probably true. I know that government interference in the market here has ultimately cost me money. I can't deal with the idea of a society without safety nets, however, so long as they are reasonable. Bailing out the rich, is not reasonable. However, they do it because they see no choice.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question.
Christian Graus wrote:
I can't deal with the idea of a society without safety nets, however, so long as they are reasonable. Bailing out the rich, is not reasonable.
we agree
Christian Graus wrote:
However, they do it because they see no choice.
because they've lost sight of the long term and are focused on the short term out of fear for their (political) positions, effectively selling out any remaining principle. my opinion, anyway.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Oakman wrote:
Therefore
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle.
And then Obama got elected... and kept going in the exact same direction...
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
our government has taken a disgusting turn away from every founding principle.
And then Obama got elected... and kept going in the exact same direction...
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
And then Obama got elected... and kept going in the exact same direction...
doesn't change a thing I said, your point?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Daniel Ferguson wrote:
And then Obama got elected... and kept going in the exact same direction...
doesn't change a thing I said, your point?
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
I'm not trying to change your point; I agree with it.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
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I'm not trying to change your point; I agree with it.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
I'm not trying to change your point; I agree with it.
:rose:
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.