Unintended consequences
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The government needs to move to Mac if Microsoft abandon the US like that. I would say the same if it was Apple moving their jobs offshore. And, Stan, this is an example of how unfettered capitalism doesn't help the country, because companies only help themselves.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
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Microsoft to move more jobs offshore if 0 gets his way on taxes.[^] guess that is what we should expect after 52.9% of the voting public elect a teleprompter.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
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Christian Graus wrote:
government needs to move to Mac
To punish the US government or to punish u$?
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The government needs to move to Mac if Microsoft abandon the US like that. I would say the same if it was Apple moving their jobs offshore. And, Stan, this is an example of how unfettered capitalism doesn't help the country, because companies only help themselves.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
And, Stan, this is an example of how unfettered capitalism doesn't help the country, because companies only help themselves.
Thats all they are supposed to do. Thats the entire point. What good does it do me if Microsoft has to raise its prices to help promote the fascist agenda of the Obama administration? I want them to produce their products as cheaply as possible and earn as much profit as possible. If they cannot do that here, they should do it somewhere else. Hell, I would happily leave this country also given the right circumstances.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
Microsoft has been moving jobs to
as has every major US corporation. this is simply a reason to accelerate, and I don't disagree as I don't subscribe to the notion that paying excessive taxes is patriotic unless we're in an active war that is life or death for the nation, certainly not to finance socialism.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
as has every major US corporation. this is simply a reason to accelerate, and I don't disagree as I don't subscribe to the notion that paying excessive taxes is patriotic unless we're in an active war that is life or death for the nation, certainly not to finance socialism
I think taxes suck. I think doing one's best to avoid (not evade) taxes makes great good sense. But they have been moving jobs to Mexico and China, and India because they can pay slave wages over there, not to avoid taxes. The cost savings when they can hire someone for $50 @ week instead of $1500 is so great that if China's tax rate was twice the U.S.'s, it would still be attractive to move the jobs. So, I see no reason in the world why the United States shouldn't levy a tax on all goods coming into this country made by scabs and slaves, bringing the price right back up to the level it would cost if the manufacturers had been employing the people they are forcing the rest of us to support with our taxes by putting them out of work. Raise our duties enough and either there will be more work, or lower taxes for you and me as the overseas manufactures begin to pay the bills we've been stuck with.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Christian Graus wrote:
And, Stan, this is an example of how unfettered capitalism doesn't help the country, because companies only help themselves.
Thats all they are supposed to do. Thats the entire point. What good does it do me if Microsoft has to raise its prices to help promote the fascist agenda of the Obama administration? I want them to produce their products as cheaply as possible and earn as much profit as possible. If they cannot do that here, they should do it somewhere else. Hell, I would happily leave this country also given the right circumstances.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
What good does it do me if Microsoft has to raise its prices to help promote the fascist agenda of the Obama administration?
What good does it do you if they move to india, and so less jobs exist in the US, and less taxes get paid ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
I want them to produce their products as cheaply as possible and earn as much profit as possible. If they cannot do that here, they should do it somewhere else. Hell, I would happily leave this country also given the right circumstances.
So, if all jobs in the US that can move, do move to india, and your unemployment hits, say, 40%, that's a good thing ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I guess you've never used a Mac then ?
I saw one once. Does that count?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Stan Shannon wrote:
What good does it do me if Microsoft has to raise its prices to help promote the fascist agenda of the Obama administration?
What good does it do you if they move to india, and so less jobs exist in the US, and less taxes get paid ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
I want them to produce their products as cheaply as possible and earn as much profit as possible. If they cannot do that here, they should do it somewhere else. Hell, I would happily leave this country also given the right circumstances.
So, if all jobs in the US that can move, do move to india, and your unemployment hits, say, 40%, that's a good thing ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
What good does it do you if they move to india, and so less jobs exist in the US, and less taxes get paid ?
I get to continue to live in a growing economy.
Christian Graus wrote:
So, if all jobs in the US that can move, do move to india, and your unemployment hits, say, 40%, that's a good thing ?
It makes no difference if the jobs are here if they exist only to promote some form of collectivism. My economic security, and yourse for that matter, depends upon a growing economy. It depends upon private investments and private spending of wealth that was earned in the actual production of goods. Indeed it would be better for my culture if that happened here. But my culture is a moot point - it has already been destroyed. Economically, it makes no difference to me where it happens at.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Christian Graus wrote:
You've been in the presence of greatness.
Constantly, but let's talk about the Mac.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Microsoft to move more jobs offshore if 0 gets his way on taxes.[^] guess that is what we should expect after 52.9% of the voting public elect a teleprompter.
Mike - typical white guy. The USA does have universal healthcare, but you have to pay for it. D'oh. Thomas Mann - "Tolerance becomes a crime when applied to evil." The NYT - my leftist brochure. Calling an illegal alien an “undocumented immigrant” is like calling a drug dealer an “unlicensed pharmacist”. God doesn't believe in atheists, therefore they don't exist.
Did you read the article?
The article says:
U.S. tax rules let companies defer paying corporate rates as high as 35 percent on most types of foreign profits as long as that money remains invested overseas. Obama says he wants to end such incentives to keep foreign profits tax-deferred so that companies would invest them in the U.S.
(my emphasis)
The article says:
[Microsoft] then assigns its foreign sales to the Irish subsidiary so it doesn’t have to claim the income in the United States.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
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Christian Graus wrote:
You've been in the presence of greatness.
Constantly, but let's talk about the Mac.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Constantly, but let's talk about the Mac.
:laugh: I quit my Win32 C++ coding job a few years ago, now I do PHP on a Mac and I don't miss Windows at all. (I hate MFC!) Mac has the great *nix tools under the hood, with a great GUI on top. -- edit -- For example, DOS Windows don't even support copy and paste (without going through the menus) and DOS syntax is nasty anyway, so I always avoided it, but now I've got loads of bash shell scripts for things like using rsync to backup my files to a remote drive automatically every night.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
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Christian Graus wrote:
You've been in the presence of greatness.
Constantly, but let's talk about the Mac.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
ROTFL. We could do this all day. Truth is, the Mac has it's flaws, too, but I like to play the zealot from time to time.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
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Christian Graus wrote:
What good does it do you if they move to india, and so less jobs exist in the US, and less taxes get paid ?
I get to continue to live in a growing economy.
Christian Graus wrote:
So, if all jobs in the US that can move, do move to india, and your unemployment hits, say, 40%, that's a good thing ?
It makes no difference if the jobs are here if they exist only to promote some form of collectivism. My economic security, and yourse for that matter, depends upon a growing economy. It depends upon private investments and private spending of wealth that was earned in the actual production of goods. Indeed it would be better for my culture if that happened here. But my culture is a moot point - it has already been destroyed. Economically, it makes no difference to me where it happens at.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
I get to continue to live in a growing economy.
How do you figure ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
It makes no difference if the jobs are here if they exist only to promote some form of collectivism.
Protectionism and collectivism are not the same thing.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
I get to continue to live in a growing economy.
How do you figure ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
It makes no difference if the jobs are here if they exist only to promote some form of collectivism.
Protectionism and collectivism are not the same thing.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
How do you figure ?
Because economic growth is only possible given increasing productivity. Productivity is defined by producing more with less. A business becomes more productive by being more efficient. Reducing overhead, such as taxes, is one the easiest ways to achieve that. The more efficient business becomes, the wealthier we all become simply because the things we buy are cheaper and the more wealth we have to invest in even more businesses. That is the only formula for actually growing an economy. No government ever has, or ever will, derive an economic formula which can do that. It all depends upon as much wealth being kept in the hands of private individuals as possible.
Christian Graus wrote:
Protectionism and collectivism are not the same thing.
There is no reason they can't be.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Christian Graus wrote:
How do you figure ?
Because economic growth is only possible given increasing productivity. Productivity is defined by producing more with less. A business becomes more productive by being more efficient. Reducing overhead, such as taxes, is one the easiest ways to achieve that. The more efficient business becomes, the wealthier we all become simply because the things we buy are cheaper and the more wealth we have to invest in even more businesses. That is the only formula for actually growing an economy. No government ever has, or ever will, derive an economic formula which can do that. It all depends upon as much wealth being kept in the hands of private individuals as possible.
Christian Graus wrote:
Protectionism and collectivism are not the same thing.
There is no reason they can't be.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
It all depends upon as much wealth being kept in the hands of private individuals as possible.
And how does wealth in the hands of Bill Gates and a bunch of indians, help your society ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
There is no reason they can't be
But there's no reason that they have to be.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
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Christian Graus wrote:
How do you figure ?
Because economic growth is only possible given increasing productivity. Productivity is defined by producing more with less. A business becomes more productive by being more efficient. Reducing overhead, such as taxes, is one the easiest ways to achieve that. The more efficient business becomes, the wealthier we all become simply because the things we buy are cheaper and the more wealth we have to invest in even more businesses. That is the only formula for actually growing an economy. No government ever has, or ever will, derive an economic formula which can do that. It all depends upon as much wealth being kept in the hands of private individuals as possible.
Christian Graus wrote:
Protectionism and collectivism are not the same thing.
There is no reason they can't be.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
It all depends upon as much wealth being kept in the hands of private individuals as possible.
In the hands of Microsoft and Bill Gates? The pool of money he swims in is a pool of money that does not circulate through the economy. Seems like you didn't read the article either because...
The article says:
Typically, he said, a company like Microsoft develops a product like Windows in the United States and deducts those costs against U.S. income. It then transfers the technology to a subsidiary in Ireland, where corporate tax rates are lower, without charging licensing fees. The company then assigns its foreign sales to the Irish subsidiary so it doesn’t have to claim the income in the United States.
So they're deducting costs in the US and claiming the income in Ireland. That's taking money out of the US economy. Obama wants to stop it:
The article says:
In addition to limiting current deductions for companies that defer U.S. tax on their foreign profits, Obama proposed altering a set of rules known as “check the box” that allow companies to shelter foreign profits in offshore subsidiaries that can be disregarded for U.S. tax purposes.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
as has every major US corporation. this is simply a reason to accelerate, and I don't disagree as I don't subscribe to the notion that paying excessive taxes is patriotic unless we're in an active war that is life or death for the nation, certainly not to finance socialism
I think taxes suck. I think doing one's best to avoid (not evade) taxes makes great good sense. But they have been moving jobs to Mexico and China, and India because they can pay slave wages over there, not to avoid taxes. The cost savings when they can hire someone for $50 @ week instead of $1500 is so great that if China's tax rate was twice the U.S.'s, it would still be attractive to move the jobs. So, I see no reason in the world why the United States shouldn't levy a tax on all goods coming into this country made by scabs and slaves, bringing the price right back up to the level it would cost if the manufacturers had been employing the people they are forcing the rest of us to support with our taxes by putting them out of work. Raise our duties enough and either there will be more work, or lower taxes for you and me as the overseas manufactures begin to pay the bills we've been stuck with.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
I see no reason in the world why the United States shouldn't levy a tax on all goods coming into this country made by scabs and slaves, bringing the price right back up to the level it would cost if the manufacturers had been employing the people they are forcing the rest of us to support with our taxes by putting them out of work
Protectionism. I thought your previous position was that protectionism was as harmful then (as in the Great Depression) as it would be now.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
It all depends upon as much wealth being kept in the hands of private individuals as possible.
In the hands of Microsoft and Bill Gates? The pool of money he swims in is a pool of money that does not circulate through the economy. Seems like you didn't read the article either because...
The article says:
Typically, he said, a company like Microsoft develops a product like Windows in the United States and deducts those costs against U.S. income. It then transfers the technology to a subsidiary in Ireland, where corporate tax rates are lower, without charging licensing fees. The company then assigns its foreign sales to the Irish subsidiary so it doesn’t have to claim the income in the United States.
So they're deducting costs in the US and claiming the income in Ireland. That's taking money out of the US economy. Obama wants to stop it:
The article says:
In addition to limiting current deductions for companies that defer U.S. tax on their foreign profits, Obama proposed altering a set of rules known as “check the box” that allow companies to shelter foreign profits in offshore subsidiaries that can be disregarded for U.S. tax purposes.
You never ever could win a war / That's what you have to learn / Here everybody is a loser / You will get nothing in return - "Fortunes of War", Funker Vogt
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
The pool of money he swims in is a pool of money that does not circulate through the economy.
Yes it does. The only part that does not circulate through the economy and grow wealth is that part he is forced to give to the government in taxes. Hell, if you're a programmer you're probably spending some of his money right now. It is very odd that a programmer would not understand the economic realities that create most programming jobs.
Daniel Ferguson wrote:
So they're deducting costs in the US and claiming the income in Ireland. That's taking money out of the US economy.
Good. I don't want Obama to have it. I want it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
It all depends upon as much wealth being kept in the hands of private individuals as possible.
And how does wealth in the hands of Bill Gates and a bunch of indians, help your society ?
Stan Shannon wrote:
There is no reason they can't be
But there's no reason that they have to be.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums.
Christian Graus wrote:
And how does wealth in the hands of Bill Gates and a bunch of indians, help your society ?
By increasing the over all productiity of the international economy.
Christian Graus wrote:
But there's no reason that they have to be.
Well, in this case they are.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
