Collectivism : Why We Need It
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Maybe you know the answer. I watched a special yesterday on the rise of the giant reptiles. The reason that these species grew so large, it was said, was because of the warm - and therefore friendly - climate. Now I understand that the GW theorists point out that if they are right and the seas do rise, folks in a lot of cities are going to have to learn how to swim to work and that isn't good for civilization as we know it. But this time around - in spite of all the additional water, the heat is supposed to bring nothing but deserts and therefore famines. I googled a bit, but found no answer. It appears that the alarmists are simply stating as a fact that additional heat = desert !rainforest. Is that your perception?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Now I understand that the GW theorists point out that if they are right and the seas do rise, folks in a lot of cities are going to have to learn how to swim to work and that isn't good for civilization as we know it. But this time around - in spite of all the additional water, the heat is supposed to bring nothing but deserts and therefore famines. I googled a bit, but found no answer. It appears that the alarmists are simply stating as a fact that additional heat = desert !rainforest. Is that your perception?
Maybe it's a matter of knowing that something crappy is going to happen, without knowing what exactly that crappy thing is. Like skydiving into an ocean - you won't know beforehand whether it'll be the impact or drowning that'll kill you, but you know that you're going to die. (OK, that's probably a really lousy analogy.)
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Oakman wrote:
Now I understand that the GW theorists point out that if they are right and the seas do rise, folks in a lot of cities are going to have to learn how to swim to work and that isn't good for civilization as we know it. But this time around - in spite of all the additional water, the heat is supposed to bring nothing but deserts and therefore famines. I googled a bit, but found no answer. It appears that the alarmists are simply stating as a fact that additional heat = desert !rainforest. Is that your perception?
Maybe it's a matter of knowing that something crappy is going to happen, without knowing what exactly that crappy thing is. Like skydiving into an ocean - you won't know beforehand whether it'll be the impact or drowning that'll kill you, but you know that you're going to die. (OK, that's probably a really lousy analogy.)
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
OK, that's probably a really lousy analogy
Yep, Among other things, most folks have some experience with the sea. I am unaware of anyone who has experience the kind of dramatic climate shift being predicted.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
OK, that's probably a really lousy analogy
Yep, Among other things, most folks have some experience with the sea. I am unaware of anyone who has experience the kind of dramatic climate shift being predicted.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
Yep, Among other things, most folks have some experience with the sea. I am unaware of anyone who has experience the kind of dramatic climate shift being predicted.
That, um, wasn't exactly the point I was trying to make with the analogy. Isn't that the whole idea of an analogy? To explain something unrelatable by comparing it with something relatable?
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Ilíon wrote:
The only part of the statement even remotely a surprise is the verb of the second part.
What the hell are you talking about ?
Ilíon wrote:
I see that someone wasn't paying attention the other day to the "Connections" videos I linked to
How surprising. You're both illiterate, and you suffer the grandiose belief that just because you post a link, we all look at it.
Ilíon wrote:
should modern technological civilization collapse, the only human beings with a reasonable chance of survival are those human beings who are less integrated into modern technological civilization; the more primitive and remote a society, the greater the chances its members will susvive such a collapse.
So, I don't live in a big city, I live in a rural area. And I said that as this is the case, and as I and those around me are in a position to grow our own food ( in fact, there are many commercial farms within walking distance of where I live ), that means I stand a better chance of survival than someone who lives in the big city, so therefore I didn't pay attention to your video, because I am MORE integrated into modern technology than CSS, who lives in either Dayton, or Columbus ( I forget which ) ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
Christian Graus wrote:
How surprising. You're both illiterate, and you suffer the grandiose belief that just because you post a link, we all look at it.
And you're a fool. But, there is by now no surprise in that.
Christian Graus wrote:
So, I don't live in a big city, I live in a rural area. And I said that as this is the case, and as I and those around me are in a position to grow our own food ( in fact, there are many commercial farms within walking distance of where I live ), that means I stand a better chance of survival than someone who lives in the big city, so therefore I didn't pay attention to your video, because I am MORE integrated into modern technology than CSS
You're a willfully ignorant fool; you will no more survive a collapse of modern technological society than I will.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
the only way you have a chance at waking up is if you open your mind a little bit.
It's possible that in 20 years time, you will wake up. I realise your complete lack of life experience is the issue here.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
it is a mindset you can never have because you do not have my extensive visualization and empathy skills.
Yes, we proved your empathy recently. People in the third world are just lazy, right ?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I promise you my mind is sharper than yours in those regards
I'm sure you think so.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google.
Welcome to my sig.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
Christian Graus wrote:
I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason.
You don't believe me? I wont go into the details because that will only make you think I am even more insane. I really can 'flex' the front part of my brain. Just as when I walk or do some repetitive motion my brain because very stimulated, I can actually magnify that 10 times or more by doing one simple thing.
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Oakman wrote:
Yep, Among other things, most folks have some experience with the sea. I am unaware of anyone who has experience the kind of dramatic climate shift being predicted.
That, um, wasn't exactly the point I was trying to make with the analogy. Isn't that the whole idea of an analogy? To explain something unrelatable by comparing it with something relatable?
Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Isn't that the whole idea of an analogy
That wasn't what they told me when I went to school. Back then an analogy wass the pointing out of similarities between two things (things in the broadest sense of the word. i.e. events, objects, ideas, perceptions, etc.) and the implcation that there might be other, not immediately perceived, similarities.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
the only way you have a chance at waking up is if you open your mind a little bit.
It's possible that in 20 years time, you will wake up. I realise your complete lack of life experience is the issue here.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
it is a mindset you can never have because you do not have my extensive visualization and empathy skills.
Yes, we proved your empathy recently. People in the third world are just lazy, right ?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I promise you my mind is sharper than yours in those regards
I'm sure you think so.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google.
Welcome to my sig.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
I can teleport myself to the scene and change the past. Don't believe me? I know you don't, but I can. One time I flew into the zone and rearranged the plasma in the atmosphere with my thoughts! :omg: The lizards didn't like it so they beamed me to mars where I stayed their with my friend Goobar for a while. This is fact! Only stupid people don't believe me. Dughgh dullzzz [drool] doooghghh! blblbl
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Christian Graus wrote:
How surprising. You're both illiterate, and you suffer the grandiose belief that just because you post a link, we all look at it.
And you're a fool. But, there is by now no surprise in that.
Christian Graus wrote:
So, I don't live in a big city, I live in a rural area. And I said that as this is the case, and as I and those around me are in a position to grow our own food ( in fact, there are many commercial farms within walking distance of where I live ), that means I stand a better chance of survival than someone who lives in the big city, so therefore I didn't pay attention to your video, because I am MORE integrated into modern technology than CSS
You're a willfully ignorant fool; you will no more survive a collapse of modern technological society than I will.
Ilíon wrote:
And you're a fool. But, there is by now no surprise in that.
Funny, you say something stupid, I call you on it, and because you have no intelligent response, you resort to insult.
Ilíon wrote:
you will no more survive a collapse of modern technological society than I will.
I don't know your circumstances, but I am far more likely to than someone who lives in a big city and has no resources or experience in growing food or providing a source of heat for themselves. Hell, I even have a source of wool for clothing.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
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Christian Graus wrote:
Dayton, or Columbus ( I forget which ) ?
Englewood was his last known address - it's near Dayton.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
I thought so, I have a friend near Dayton, and I told her, this is the sort of place you live in......
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
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Christian Graus wrote:
I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason.
You don't believe me? I wont go into the details because that will only make you think I am even more insane. I really can 'flex' the front part of my brain. Just as when I walk or do some repetitive motion my brain because very stimulated, I can actually magnify that 10 times or more by doing one simple thing.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I wont go into the details because that will only make you think I am even more insane. I
Really ? Well, have you considered going to a mental health professional, telling them all this, and seeing what THEY think ? Why not submit to an MRI and prove to them that you're not insane ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I wont go into the details because that will only make you think I am even more insane. I
Really ? Well, have you considered going to a mental health professional, telling them all this, and seeing what THEY think ? Why not submit to an MRI and prove to them that you're not insane ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
Only if the government will pay for it.
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Only if the government will pay for it.
Well, they have a vested interest in getting you locked up, perhaps they should.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
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Ilíon wrote:
And you're a fool. But, there is by now no surprise in that.
Funny, you say something stupid, I call you on it, and because you have no intelligent response, you resort to insult.
Ilíon wrote:
you will no more survive a collapse of modern technological society than I will.
I don't know your circumstances, but I am far more likely to than someone who lives in a big city and has no resources or experience in growing food or providing a source of heat for themselves. Hell, I even have a source of wool for clothing.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
Christian Graus wrote:
Funny, you say something stupid, I call you on it, and because you have no intelligent response, you resort to insult.
Funny, you continually (and falsely) whinge that all I do is insult others ... and then you whinge when I return your feeble attempts at insult.
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't know your circumstances, but I am far more likely to than someone who lives in a big city and has no resources or experience in growing food or providing a source of heat for themselves. Hell, I even have a source of wool for clothing.
Cloth doesn't grow on sheep. DO you know *how* to raise sheep, year after year after year? Do you know *how* to get, and clean, wool? Do you know *how* to make thread? Do you know *how* to weave thread into cloth? Do you know *how* to make cloth into clothing? Do you have the tools to do these things? How are you going to power these tools? What are you going to do when these tools break? And food doesn't grow at the grocery store. Do you know *how* to grow enough foodstuffs to last until the next harvest -- year after year, for the rest of your grandchildren's lives? Do you have the tools to do this, tools which are primitive enough that they can still be used without the vast support network of technology? How are you going to power these tools? What are you going to do when the tools break? Do you know *how* to store that mass of foodstuffs? Do you know *how* to protect it ... from both rodents and such and from other people? Do you have to guts to protect it from other people -- what, passive-aggressive pussy-man is going to turn into The Man at the flip of a switch? How are you going to protect yourself from the first wave of desperate people fleeing the cities? How are you going to protect yourself from the secondary waves (until the gass runs out)? How are you going to protect yourself for the next several years from the human predators who would rather search out and then kill an entire family to take what they have than to undertake the effort of producing those needful things for themselves? You don't stand a chance, PAPM.
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Ravel H. Joyce wrote:
Isn't that the whole idea of an analogy
That wasn't what they told me when I went to school. Back then an analogy wass the pointing out of similarities between two things (things in the broadest sense of the word. i.e. events, objects, ideas, perceptions, etc.) and the implcation that there might be other, not immediately perceived, similarities.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
That wasn't what they told me when I went to school. Back then an analogy wass the pointing out of similarities between two things (things in the broadest sense of the word. i.e. events, objects, ideas, perceptions, etc.) and the implcation that there might be other, not immediately perceived, similarities.
Aren't they pretty much equivalent, except that your definition is [maybe] more general?
modified on Tuesday, June 9, 2009 3:07 AM
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Maybe you know the answer. I watched a special yesterday on the rise of the giant reptiles. The reason that these species grew so large, it was said, was because of the warm - and therefore friendly - climate. Now I understand that the GW theorists point out that if they are right and the seas do rise, folks in a lot of cities are going to have to learn how to swim to work and that isn't good for civilization as we know it. But this time around - in spite of all the additional water, the heat is supposed to bring nothing but deserts and therefore famines. I googled a bit, but found no answer. It appears that the alarmists are simply stating as a fact that additional heat = desert !rainforest. Is that your perception?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Couple of points. 1) The world has been entirely ice free in the past, and virtually ice bound. Yet we state that the climate as it exists today is the 'perfect' one and we must maintain it. So, even if sea levels do rise (back to where they were) are we supposed to do anything but take it on the chin and move inland? Thats what prehistoric man did. I am sure quite a fgew were pissed off when their noce little round house in the middle of what is now the english channel got covered by 150 feet of water, but what could they, or we , do about it? Nothing. 2) It has been noticed, either from increased CO2, or increased temperature and hence water vapour, that forests are growing, and deserts shrinking in the last 40 years. I have got any links anymore but there are some interesting articles on line. It has been suggested for example that errosion on the sphinx was caused by water (it predates the pyraminds by quite some time aparently).
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Couple of points. 1) The world has been entirely ice free in the past, and virtually ice bound. Yet we state that the climate as it exists today is the 'perfect' one and we must maintain it. So, even if sea levels do rise (back to where they were) are we supposed to do anything but take it on the chin and move inland? Thats what prehistoric man did. I am sure quite a fgew were pissed off when their noce little round house in the middle of what is now the english channel got covered by 150 feet of water, but what could they, or we , do about it? Nothing. 2) It has been noticed, either from increased CO2, or increased temperature and hence water vapour, that forests are growing, and deserts shrinking in the last 40 years. I have got any links anymore but there are some interesting articles on line. It has been suggested for example that errosion on the sphinx was caused by water (it predates the pyraminds by quite some time aparently).
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
It has been noticed, either from increased CO2, or increased temperature and hence water vapour, that forests are growing, and deserts shrinking
That is what makes sense to me - which doesn't mean its right, but it jibes with the history as I've been told it is generally accepted
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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fat_boy wrote:
It has been noticed, either from increased CO2, or increased temperature and hence water vapour, that forests are growing, and deserts shrinking
That is what makes sense to me - which doesn't mean its right, but it jibes with the history as I've been told it is generally accepted
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
but it jibes with the history as I've been told it is generally accepted
It will do. The green movement is politically motivated, at least when it comes to CO2. They will never accept the benefits of a warmer, wetter, CO2 richer world, despite the fact these benefits are scientifically proven to occur both experimentally, and by observation of the real world. To do so robs their message of any anti capitalist, anti consumption, goal.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
the only way you have a chance at waking up is if you open your mind a little bit.
It's possible that in 20 years time, you will wake up. I realise your complete lack of life experience is the issue here.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
it is a mindset you can never have because you do not have my extensive visualization and empathy skills.
Yes, we proved your empathy recently. People in the third world are just lazy, right ?
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I promise you my mind is sharper than yours in those regards
I'm sure you think so.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google.
Welcome to my sig.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Please read this[^] if you don't like the answer I gave to your question. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp