How often/where do you post ?
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Rob Graham wrote:
I used to post here a lot
I miss your insight, even if I occasionally resemble a grumpy libertarian.
Rob Graham wrote:
It has become largely a private club for the narcissist psychotic and the white racist idiot and a few grumpy right wingers.
Hey, be fair. Carson is a grumpy left-winger. So is Oily. I realised that I was getting sucked into sniping at or debating Ilion, CSS and Stan. It finally got through my thick skull that none of them were worth responding to, no matter how brilliant a bon mot I thought I could come up with. Unfortunately, it seems that there are some folks that stepped up to fill any void I might have left. Until and unless we can all start ignoring the trolls they will continue to dominate the posts and the bandwidth. Perhaps we three should reconsider our hands-off moderation?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
. It finally got through my thick skull that none of them were worth responding to
I've decided it's worse than that, and that we're enabling CSSs schizophrenia by replying to his delusions.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
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Oakman wrote:
. It finally got through my thick skull that none of them were worth responding to
I've decided it's worse than that, and that we're enabling CSSs schizophrenia by replying to his delusions.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
Christian Graus wrote:
I've decided it's worse than that, and that we're enabling CSSs schizophrenia by replying to his delusions.
I agree. In all cases, responding to them simply means that we encourage them to post more of the same.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Christian Graus wrote:
I've decided it's worse than that, and that we're enabling CSSs schizophrenia by replying to his delusions.
I agree. In all cases, responding to them simply means that we encourage them to post more of the same.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Exactly.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
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Well I figured that the narcissist psychotic was Iliot and the white racist idiot was CSS. Stan often gets labeled as something outside of the norm too. Which left me with a list of righties that I'm pretty sure I could count on one hand, which I figured I was included in. But of those righties, it's generally only the most hard-core hate-filled lefties that call us dirty names, and I think I can count them on one hand as well. The only reason I chose to reply was from some confusion as to why I've heard more and more references to "all the righties" here as of late. Coming from you I thought there might be more to it, that I had missed.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock." - Mark Twain "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
BoneSoft wrote:
Stan often gets labeled as something outside of the norm too.
The reason for that is that I have the audacity to reject the supremacy of libertarian ideals. The libertarians have to label those who reject their tenants outright as extremists. It is the only way they can protect the illusion that their principles have anything at all to do with traditional American civilization. But yes, if Sarah Palin is a wild eyed extremist, than so am I, and proud of it.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Many would count me as a righty as well. I certainly defended GWB much longer than I now think he deserved (not the war so much as the incompetent appointees, and the massive growth of government followed by Paulson's sellout -err- bailout ). The "conservatives" that do bug me are those still sold on the perfection of GWB, and still focused on the same tired old issues. This country has so many problems in dire need of solution, but the right keeps putting abortion and gay rights in first place (both issues meriting discussion, but neither a current crisis like the economy, oil dependence, health care or a half dozen other issues that need immediate attention). This has driven me away from the GOP (into the arms of the Libertarians, at least for now). As far as the name calling goes, I don't think of righty or lefty as "dirty names", they aren't even very good categories, as Jon has pointed out. Franky, I'm as tired of the name calling and personality politics as anyone, perhaps that's why Ilion and CSS bug me as much as they do. We used to be able to have some good discussions around here, but that seems to have decayed noticeably. Maybe I just need to step back and give it some time.
Rob Graham wrote:
but the right keeps putting abortion and gay rights in first place (both issues meriting discussion, but neither a current crisis like the economy, oil dependence, health care or a half dozen other issues that need immediate attention).
That simply is not true. It is the collectivists that keep pushing the issues of abortion and gay rights. What you are saying is that we are just supposed to shrug and let them win on these issues because of all the other problems they have created. Conservatives have solutions for every problem you mentioned, ready to implement. You need to give your lectures to the other side. And no one has been 'sold on the perfection of GWB'.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Rob Graham wrote:
but the right keeps putting abortion and gay rights in first place (both issues meriting discussion, but neither a current crisis like the economy, oil dependence, health care or a half dozen other issues that need immediate attention).
That simply is not true. It is the collectivists that keep pushing the issues of abortion and gay rights. What you are saying is that we are just supposed to shrug and let them win on these issues because of all the other problems they have created. Conservatives have solutions for every problem you mentioned, ready to implement. You need to give your lectures to the other side. And no one has been 'sold on the perfection of GWB'.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Speak of the devil. I disagree with everything you said, but don't think it's worth pursuing it with you, since there is not a chance in hell of either of us persuading the other.
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Speak of the devil. I disagree with everything you said, but don't think it's worth pursuing it with you, since there is not a chance in hell of either of us persuading the other.
Rob Graham wrote:
since there is not a chance in hell of either of us persuading the other.
Considering that I am irrefutably correct, I would have to agree with that.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Rob Graham wrote:
since there is not a chance in hell of either of us persuading the other.
Considering that I am irrefutably correct, I would have to agree with that.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
Stan Shannon wrote:
Considering that I am irrefutably correct, I would have to agree with that.
Yes, the conviction that you are irrefutably correct is an attribute you have in common with Ilion and CSS. Great company to be in...
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Many would count me as a righty as well. I certainly defended GWB much longer than I now think he deserved (not the war so much as the incompetent appointees, and the massive growth of government followed by Paulson's sellout -err- bailout ). The "conservatives" that do bug me are those still sold on the perfection of GWB, and still focused on the same tired old issues. This country has so many problems in dire need of solution, but the right keeps putting abortion and gay rights in first place (both issues meriting discussion, but neither a current crisis like the economy, oil dependence, health care or a half dozen other issues that need immediate attention). This has driven me away from the GOP (into the arms of the Libertarians, at least for now). As far as the name calling goes, I don't think of righty or lefty as "dirty names", they aren't even very good categories, as Jon has pointed out. Franky, I'm as tired of the name calling and personality politics as anyone, perhaps that's why Ilion and CSS bug me as much as they do. We used to be able to have some good discussions around here, but that seems to have decayed noticeably. Maybe I just need to step back and give it some time.
Rob Graham wrote:
This has driven me away from the GOP (into the arms of the Libertarians, at least for now)
I've started to think that I may be more Libertarian than before. I think the Republicans have started leaning more toward thinking government is the solution on some issues, mainly religious issues (abortion, gay marriage). While I support the ideas, and understand the stance, I'm starting realize that they want more laws to dictate what they feel is right. Which I don't dismiss immediately, but think that it should be analyzed a little deeper with the size of government in mind. And as for Bush, there were plenty of valid issues. But with the kind of shrieking we constantly heard from the left, I suppose many of us were all but forced to be defensive. But anyway, the point is I hear ya.
Rob Graham wrote:
This country has so many problems in dire need of solution
Like immigration and immigration and... what's that other one... Oh yeah, immigration! There is a laundry list of issues that all would be helped by fixing immigration. Health care, unemployment, etc. Yeah, the social issues should not be at the top of the queue at this point.
Rob Graham wrote:
I don't think of righty or lefty as "dirty names"
Oh no, I'm talking about genuine bile slinging. Not to name names like Carson and Craig but... :laugh: (see, that's funny cuz I named names)
Rob Graham wrote:
'm as tired of the name calling and personality politics as anyone, perhaps that's why Ilion and CSS bug me as much as they do. We used to be able to have some good discussions around here, but that seems to have decayed noticeably.
Again, I hear ya. It's hard for people in general to handle disagreement without taking it personal.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock." - Mark Twain "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
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Stan Shannon wrote:
Considering that I am irrefutably correct, I would have to agree with that.
Yes, the conviction that you are irrefutably correct is an attribute you have in common with Ilion and CSS. Great company to be in...
Rob Graham wrote:
is an attribute you have in common with Ilion and CSS.
Or you or Oakman, or Carson, or virtually anyone else who hangs out here. The difference is that I am correct. both abortion and gay rights are issues created by and promoted by the democrat party. It is they who are pushing for ever greater extremes on those issues. To deny that is far beyond preposterous. But we are all just supposed to ignore all of that because oh, btw, they (the government) also screwed up the economy.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Oakman wrote:
Perhaps we three should reconsider our hands-off moderation?
I don't know about you, but I've been a toothless moderator in name only form the beginning. The most I could do is bitch to the owner, and I see little point in that anymore. I think he wanted this to be Ilion's private playground and CSS' dump. The lounge is mostly insipid, SoapBox2 a wasteland, and the programming forums homework and rent-a-coder help city. Now that they've added blogs and snippets to the articles, I don't even find myself inspired to review/approve stuff anymore. A sad, sad state of affairs.
Apparently he did not intend for us to be toothless lions http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3073869/Re-Back-Room-Moderation.aspx[^]
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Rob Graham wrote:
This has driven me away from the GOP (into the arms of the Libertarians, at least for now)
I've started to think that I may be more Libertarian than before. I think the Republicans have started leaning more toward thinking government is the solution on some issues, mainly religious issues (abortion, gay marriage). While I support the ideas, and understand the stance, I'm starting realize that they want more laws to dictate what they feel is right. Which I don't dismiss immediately, but think that it should be analyzed a little deeper with the size of government in mind. And as for Bush, there were plenty of valid issues. But with the kind of shrieking we constantly heard from the left, I suppose many of us were all but forced to be defensive. But anyway, the point is I hear ya.
Rob Graham wrote:
This country has so many problems in dire need of solution
Like immigration and immigration and... what's that other one... Oh yeah, immigration! There is a laundry list of issues that all would be helped by fixing immigration. Health care, unemployment, etc. Yeah, the social issues should not be at the top of the queue at this point.
Rob Graham wrote:
I don't think of righty or lefty as "dirty names"
Oh no, I'm talking about genuine bile slinging. Not to name names like Carson and Craig but... :laugh: (see, that's funny cuz I named names)
Rob Graham wrote:
'm as tired of the name calling and personality politics as anyone, perhaps that's why Ilion and CSS bug me as much as they do. We used to be able to have some good discussions around here, but that seems to have decayed noticeably.
Again, I hear ya. It's hard for people in general to handle disagreement without taking it personal.
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock." - Mark Twain "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
BoneSoft wrote:
I've started to think that I may be more Libertarian than before
The good news is that there is no such thing as a definition of the complete libertarian. To my mind anyone who believes that personal responsiblity should be one or the basic tenant of a society is at least a little bit libertarian. Throw in a willingness to say, 'whoops, I was wrong about. . ." and you've got someone I can really enjoy talking with and debating - even if we disagree on almost everything else.
BoneSoft wrote:
Like immigration and immigration and
Illegal immigration is a hot button for me - along with its brother, outsourcing - but I have to say that I think the long-term problems we face financially (and what that could mean about confrontation with China), and the threat of nuclear war being started by North Korea, Israel, Iran, or Pakistan dwarf my concerns about a giant economy sized box of other issue including the illegals.
BoneSoft wrote:
It's hard for people in general to handle disagreement without taking it personal
Disagreement is easy to handle in my so very humble opinion, it's the lack of respect evidenced both in the world of politics and in here that gets the nastiness flowing. One basic definition that seems to fit our trolls is that they evidence great disrespect for other people ideas and beliefs. It becomes so easy to respond to them in kind that the only thing that I can do is simply ignore them all.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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BoneSoft wrote:
I've started to think that I may be more Libertarian than before
The good news is that there is no such thing as a definition of the complete libertarian. To my mind anyone who believes that personal responsiblity should be one or the basic tenant of a society is at least a little bit libertarian. Throw in a willingness to say, 'whoops, I was wrong about. . ." and you've got someone I can really enjoy talking with and debating - even if we disagree on almost everything else.
BoneSoft wrote:
Like immigration and immigration and
Illegal immigration is a hot button for me - along with its brother, outsourcing - but I have to say that I think the long-term problems we face financially (and what that could mean about confrontation with China), and the threat of nuclear war being started by North Korea, Israel, Iran, or Pakistan dwarf my concerns about a giant economy sized box of other issue including the illegals.
BoneSoft wrote:
It's hard for people in general to handle disagreement without taking it personal
Disagreement is easy to handle in my so very humble opinion, it's the lack of respect evidenced both in the world of politics and in here that gets the nastiness flowing. One basic definition that seems to fit our trolls is that they evidence great disrespect for other people ideas and beliefs. It becomes so easy to respond to them in kind that the only thing that I can do is simply ignore them all.
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
Oakman wrote:
To my mind anyone who believes that personal responsiblity should be one or the basic tenant of a society is at least a little bit libertarian. Throw in a willingness to say, 'whoops, I was wrong about. . ." and you've got someone I can really enjoy talking with and debating -
Jon, you are by far the most intellectually dishonest person on this board. The mere fact that you reserve to yourself some sort of authoritarian right to define what 'personal responsibility' even means is absolute proof that you are not what you claim to be. But you certainly are a typical libertarian. I'll give you that.
Chaining ourselves to the moral high ground does not make us good guys. Aside from making us easy targets, it merely makes us idiotic prisoners of our own self loathing.
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Tim Craig wrote:
It seems much more hostile somehow and the ultra right wingers are just insufferable since Obama was elected.
pffft :rolleyes: It doesn't come close to the left wings hostility toward Bush or Palin. I await your denial and/or rationalization.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit The men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen." Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
It doesn't come close to the left wings hostility toward Bush
Shouldn't you be off praying for the rapture or something?
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!! -
Tim Craig wrote:
I probably don't post as much here as I have in the past. It seems much more hostile somehow
I've noticed the same thing. It does seem more hostile when you post here.
Tim Craig wrote:
and the ultra right wingers
We have anarchists posting here? :laugh:
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock." - Mark Twain "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
BoneSoft wrote:
It does seem more hostile when you post here.
Apparently, only when you respond.
BoneSoft wrote:
We have anarchists posting here?
If the foo shits.... Although I thought you fell a bit short of that designation.
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!! -
Speak of the devil. I disagree with everything you said, but don't think it's worth pursuing it with you, since there is not a chance in hell of either of us persuading the other.
Rob Graham wrote:
Speak of the devil. I disagree with everything you said, but don't think it's worth pursuing it with you, since there is not a chance in hell of either of us persuading the other.
:thumbsup:
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!! -
Gary Kirkham wrote:
It doesn't come close to the left wings hostility toward Bush
Shouldn't you be off praying for the rapture or something?
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!Tim Craig wrote:
Shouldn't you be off praying for the rapture or something?
Well I guess I should have added a third choice to deny and rationalize : deflect.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit The men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen." Me blog, You read
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Oakman wrote:
Perhaps we three should reconsider our hands-off moderation?
I don't know about you, but I've been a toothless moderator in name only form the beginning. The most I could do is bitch to the owner, and I see little point in that anymore. I think he wanted this to be Ilion's private playground and CSS' dump. The lounge is mostly insipid, SoapBox2 a wasteland, and the programming forums homework and rent-a-coder help city. Now that they've added blogs and snippets to the articles, I don't even find myself inspired to review/approve stuff anymore. A sad, sad state of affairs.
You are no longer toothless. Or at least I am not, and I suspect we all have teeth. So now the question is - do we ever bite?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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Oakman wrote:
. It finally got through my thick skull that none of them were worth responding to
I've decided it's worse than that, and that we're enabling CSSs schizophrenia by replying to his delusions.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. "! i don't exactly like or do programming and it only gives me a headache." - spotted in VB forums. I can do things with my brain that I can't even google. I can flex the front part of my brain instantly anytime I want. It can be exhausting and it even causes me vision problems for some reason. - CaptainSeeSharp
We are no longer toothless. The question I just asked Rob is: do we ever bite?
Jon Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface Both democrats and republicans are playing for the same team and it's not us. - Chris Austin
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BoneSoft wrote:
It does seem more hostile when you post here.
Apparently, only when you respond.
BoneSoft wrote:
We have anarchists posting here?
If the foo shits.... Although I thought you fell a bit short of that designation.
"Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then they get elected and prove it." -- P.J. O'Rourke
I'm a proud denizen of the Real Soapbox[^]
ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES!!!Tim Craig wrote:
Apparently, only when you respond.
Yeah, my responses are so hostile. :rolleyes: Or maybe it's only you that thinks so. I didn't know you were so thin skinned or I'd have used the kiddie gloves. I didn't hurt your wittle feelers did I? Does it take some effort to maintain the pantywaist liberal stereotype, or does it come natural? :laugh:
Tim Craig wrote:
If the foo shits.... Although I thought you fell a bit short of that designation.
If you think anybody here is anarchist then you're even farther from a grip on reality that I'd thought. And that's saying A LOT!!!
"Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect." - Mark Twain "Diplomacy is the art of saying 'nice doggy' until you can find a rock." - Mark Twain "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." - Mark Twain "Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx