CSS live on youtube (maybe)
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maybe you should try and convert the pope to satanism you would stand a better chance
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
Hmm... I could probably convert him to atheism... Don't know much about satanism though :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Maybe not, but you can grill it a bit... Everyone's always just insulting him (And I can see why), so I'm trying to see if I can inspire a little logic and common sense. Sure, optimism and encouragement aren't my usual modus operandi, but every once in a while I like to give humanity a chance.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
I have tried very hard in the past to talk to him sensibly, and to get him to see the ways in which he's wasting his life, and trying to blame others for his failings. Our conversations now are the end result of those attempts. He needs psychiatric help, but he's said he refuses to consider even seeing one. I even offered to pay for a visit, once, so he was at least diagnosed.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I have tried very hard in the past to talk to him sensibly, and to get him to see the ways in which he's wasting his life, and trying to blame others for his failings. Our conversations now are the end result of those attempts. He needs psychiatric help, but he's said he refuses to consider even seeing one. I even offered to pay for a visit, once, so he was at least diagnosed.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Yeah, I'm starting to get that impression. Oh well... I suppose I had to try. This is the first time I've ventured into TBR, so I had to give it a shot. Next time I suppose I'll just ignore his inane ramblings.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oqHHtwBMs5Q[^] or maybe just his hero it must be true its on youtube
Go away and research the subject, analyze the options for and against, understand the problem and them come back when you agree with me.
CSS has appeared on YouTube. He once treated us to video of himself high on salvia. :laugh: Would you care to see it? [modified] Actually calling it high doesn't do it justice. Totally fucked up on salvia would be more descriptive. Although that might be how he is normally, I don't know. ;P
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
modified on Friday, September 11, 2009 1:44 AM
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Maybe not, but you can grill it a bit... Everyone's always just insulting him (And I can see why), so I'm trying to see if I can inspire a little logic and common sense. Sure, optimism and encouragement aren't my usual modus operandi, but every once in a while I like to give humanity a chance.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
I'm trying to see if I can inspire a little logic and common sense.
Wast of time. Several have tried and failed before you. I don't say this much but he is beyond salvation ;P
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Maybe not, but you can grill it a bit... Everyone's always just insulting him (And I can see why), so I'm trying to see if I can inspire a little logic and common sense. Sure, optimism and encouragement aren't my usual modus operandi, but every once in a while I like to give humanity a chance.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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I am just waiting for the moment you give up. I think every BackRoom regular had tried this and given up. Beat your head on wall. That might be more productive.
It's not necessary to be so stupid, either, but people manage it. - Christian Graus, 2009 AD
Actually I think he gave up... Nothing was actually resolved, but at least he stopped quoting conspiracy theories... Until the next time.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Actually I think he gave up... Nothing was actually resolved, but at least he stopped quoting conspiracy theories... Until the next time.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Let the Sun rise in his time zone.
It's not necessary to be so stupid, either, but people manage it. - Christian Graus, 2009 AD
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Where it comes from, there is no sun.
If at first you don't succeed, you're not Chuck Norris.
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CSS has appeared on YouTube. He once treated us to video of himself high on salvia. :laugh: Would you care to see it? [modified] Actually calling it high doesn't do it justice. Totally fucked up on salvia would be more descriptive. Although that might be how he is normally, I don't know. ;P
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
modified on Friday, September 11, 2009 1:44 AM
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Actually I think he gave up... Nothing was actually resolved, but at least he stopped quoting conspiracy theories... Until the next time.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Your not getting the big picture. Sure, a floating currency as you called it can be useful when in the right hands, and those hands are the congress answerable to the people and regulated and restricted by law. Not this debt-based currency where a private corporation with its own interests has total power over the economy.
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Your not getting the big picture. Sure, a floating currency as you called it can be useful when in the right hands, and those hands are the congress answerable to the people and regulated and restricted by law. Not this debt-based currency where a private corporation with its own interests has total power over the economy.
*sigh*... Here we go. The Fed is answerable to the FOMC, which is part of Congress. Their operations are governed by the Federal Reserve Act, which congress can modify at any time. If you still fail to understand this not-so-subtle point, then you really are as bad as the rest of these guys keep saying, and I'm done trying to educate you.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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*sigh*... Here we go. The Fed is answerable to the FOMC, which is part of Congress. Their operations are governed by the Federal Reserve Act, which congress can modify at any time. If you still fail to understand this not-so-subtle point, then you really are as bad as the rest of these guys keep saying, and I'm done trying to educate you.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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*sigh*... Here we go. The Fed is answerable to the FOMC, which is part of Congress. Their operations are governed by the Federal Reserve Act, which congress can modify at any time. If you still fail to understand this not-so-subtle point, then you really are as bad as the rest of these guys keep saying, and I'm done trying to educate you.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
You are an idiot. The Federal Reserve System virtually controls the nation's monetary system, yet it is accountable to no one. It has no budget, it is subject to no audit, and no Congressional Committee knows of, or can truly supervise, its operations. Do you call this answering to Congress? This is not oversight.[^] For more than twenty years, the living standards of middle class Americans have steadily declined; incomes have remained flat or falling and the opportunities and security we once took for granted have begun to fade. For most families, one income no longer pays the bills; it requires two or more incomes to afford a home, pay medical and childcare expenses, and put children through school. Unless present trends change, young workers are unlikely to ever live as well as their parents. Good jobs with a future are harder to come by; education doesn't count for what it once did; taxes continue to rise while social security is going bankrupt. Private pensions are no longer reliable; economic volatility and uncertainty are on the rise. Politicians espouse numerous theories about the cause of this country's economic woes; seldom however do these officials look below the surface: the roots of our economic ills can be traced to central banking and our present monetary system. The Federal Reserve claims to manage our money; instead it makes our money worth less and less every day. It has generated continuous and worsening business cycles and lowered our living standards. It's really no different from a burglar in your house wanting to steal your money. That's what the Federal Reserve does. It depreciates your savings; it takes away your economic security; and it ought to be treated as an institution that does that, rather than something of alleged benefit. Again, your not getting the big picture. The right to "coin" money belongs in the hands of the congress answerable to the people and regulated and restricted by law. Not this debt-based currency where a private corporation with its own interests has total power over the economy.
modified on Friday, September 11, 2009 1:13 PM
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You are an idiot. The Federal Reserve System virtually controls the nation's monetary system, yet it is accountable to no one. It has no budget, it is subject to no audit, and no Congressional Committee knows of, or can truly supervise, its operations. Do you call this answering to Congress? This is not oversight.[^] For more than twenty years, the living standards of middle class Americans have steadily declined; incomes have remained flat or falling and the opportunities and security we once took for granted have begun to fade. For most families, one income no longer pays the bills; it requires two or more incomes to afford a home, pay medical and childcare expenses, and put children through school. Unless present trends change, young workers are unlikely to ever live as well as their parents. Good jobs with a future are harder to come by; education doesn't count for what it once did; taxes continue to rise while social security is going bankrupt. Private pensions are no longer reliable; economic volatility and uncertainty are on the rise. Politicians espouse numerous theories about the cause of this country's economic woes; seldom however do these officials look below the surface: the roots of our economic ills can be traced to central banking and our present monetary system. The Federal Reserve claims to manage our money; instead it makes our money worth less and less every day. It has generated continuous and worsening business cycles and lowered our living standards. It's really no different from a burglar in your house wanting to steal your money. That's what the Federal Reserve does. It depreciates your savings; it takes away your economic security; and it ought to be treated as an institution that does that, rather than something of alleged benefit. Again, your not getting the big picture. The right to "coin" money belongs in the hands of the congress answerable to the people and regulated and restricted by law. Not this debt-based currency where a private corporation with its own interests has total power over the economy.
modified on Friday, September 11, 2009 1:13 PM
Are you deaf or just stupid? Oh look, I found a website that proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Read and enjoy. MYTH: The Fed is out for profit at the taxpayer's expense[^] MYTH: The Fed is never audited[^] MYTH: The Fed charges interest on all of our currency[^] More from that site Here[^] CSS... To put this as simply as possible... You fail.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Are you deaf or just stupid? Oh look, I found a website that proves that you have no idea what you're talking about. Read and enjoy. MYTH: The Fed is out for profit at the taxpayer's expense[^] MYTH: The Fed is never audited[^] MYTH: The Fed charges interest on all of our currency[^] More from that site Here[^] CSS... To put this as simply as possible... You fail.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
:laugh: That is pure BS.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
MYTH: The Fed is out for profit at the taxpayer's expense[^]
Below are excerpts from a court case proving the Federal Reserve system's status. As you will see, the court ruled that the Federal Reserve Banks are "independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations", and there is not sufficient "federal government control over 'detailed physical performance' and 'day to day operation'" of the Federal Reserve Bank for it to be considered a federal agency: Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982) John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/Appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant/Appellee. No. 80-5905 United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit. Submitted March 2, 1982. Decided April 19, 1982. As Amended June 24, 1982. Plaintiff, who was injured by vehicle owned and operated by a federal reserve bank, brought action alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The United States District Court for the Central District of California, David W. Williams, J., dismissed holding that federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of Act and that the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction. Appeal was taken. The Court of Appeals, Poole, Circuit Judge, held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations. Affirmed. 1. United States There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within meaning of the Federal Tort Claims Act, but critical factor is existence of federal government control over "detailed physical performance" and "day to day operation" of an entity. . . . 2. United States Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Tort Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations in light of fact that direct supervision and control of each bank is exercised by board of directors, federal reserve banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks, banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations nor as "mixed ownership" corporations; federal reserve banks receive no appropriated funds from Congress and the banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own names. . . . 3. United States Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, federal liability is narrowly based
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:laugh: That is pure BS.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
MYTH: The Fed is out for profit at the taxpayer's expense[^]
Below are excerpts from a court case proving the Federal Reserve system's status. As you will see, the court ruled that the Federal Reserve Banks are "independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations", and there is not sufficient "federal government control over 'detailed physical performance' and 'day to day operation'" of the Federal Reserve Bank for it to be considered a federal agency: Lewis v. United States, 680 F.2d 1239 (1982) John L. Lewis, Plaintiff/Appellant, v. United States of America, Defendant/Appellee. No. 80-5905 United States Court of Appeals, Ninth Circuit. Submitted March 2, 1982. Decided April 19, 1982. As Amended June 24, 1982. Plaintiff, who was injured by vehicle owned and operated by a federal reserve bank, brought action alleging jurisdiction under the Federal Tort Claims Act. The United States District Court for the Central District of California, David W. Williams, J., dismissed holding that federal reserve bank was not a federal agency within meaning of Act and that the court therefore lacked subject-matter jurisdiction. Appeal was taken. The Court of Appeals, Poole, Circuit Judge, held that federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations. Affirmed. 1. United States There are no sharp criteria for determining whether an entity is a federal agency within meaning of the Federal Tort Claims Act, but critical factor is existence of federal government control over "detailed physical performance" and "day to day operation" of an entity. . . . 2. United States Federal reserve banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of a Federal Tort Claims Act, but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations in light of fact that direct supervision and control of each bank is exercised by board of directors, federal reserve banks, though heavily regulated, are locally controlled by their member banks, banks are listed neither as "wholly owned" government corporations nor as "mixed ownership" corporations; federal reserve banks receive no appropriated funds from Congress and the banks are empowered to sue and be sued in their own names. . . . 3. United States Under the Federal Tort Claims Act, federal liability is narrowly based
The bank is privately owned because it is technically "owned" by the member banks, which are all private entities. Private banks can (Or in the case of national ones, MUST) buy "stock" in their regional Fed branch. This stock entitles them to a dividend, but does not give them control, as stock in a public company would. The real control over the system comes from the Board of Governors, who are appointed by the POTUS and approved by the Senate. Sounds like government control to me, doesn't it? No, they don't have to run every decision they make through congress, because the entire point is for them to act based on economic needs, not political agendas. Seems perfectly sensible to me. You know what other organization works under this model? The United States Supreme Court. Judges are appointed by the POTUS and approved by the Senate, and once in place operate independently, so they are not influenced by politics. The Fed works the same, except they have fixed terms (14 years, I believe). As for audits, you haven't proven that they aren't audited. The very text you quote shows that they are audited every year by an INDEPENDENT firm. Checks and balances. Last, but not least, you don't like the Fed charging the Treasury interest on all of the bonds it issues. Make no mistake, they do charge interest on every single bond. The problem is that you're again missing the fact that their profits are remitted BACK to the treasury! Generally speaking, the government gets something like 97% of its interest payments back! In essence, the Fed gives the Treasury interest-free loans. *** By the way, I have to correct one mistake I made in my previous posts... The FOMC isn't actually part of Congress, as I erroneously stated. It's made up of the Board of Governors appointed by the POTUS (and approved by the Senate). It is, however, subject to oversight from Congress. Just an error in terminology on my part, which does not invalidate my arguments. *** Honestly, I don't know why I keep arguing, because you're just rehashing the same, tired old conspiracy theories, none of which have any factual basis. If you're going to keep repeating statements that I've already proven false, this discussion is over.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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The bank is privately owned because it is technically "owned" by the member banks, which are all private entities. Private banks can (Or in the case of national ones, MUST) buy "stock" in their regional Fed branch. This stock entitles them to a dividend, but does not give them control, as stock in a public company would. The real control over the system comes from the Board of Governors, who are appointed by the POTUS and approved by the Senate. Sounds like government control to me, doesn't it? No, they don't have to run every decision they make through congress, because the entire point is for them to act based on economic needs, not political agendas. Seems perfectly sensible to me. You know what other organization works under this model? The United States Supreme Court. Judges are appointed by the POTUS and approved by the Senate, and once in place operate independently, so they are not influenced by politics. The Fed works the same, except they have fixed terms (14 years, I believe). As for audits, you haven't proven that they aren't audited. The very text you quote shows that they are audited every year by an INDEPENDENT firm. Checks and balances. Last, but not least, you don't like the Fed charging the Treasury interest on all of the bonds it issues. Make no mistake, they do charge interest on every single bond. The problem is that you're again missing the fact that their profits are remitted BACK to the treasury! Generally speaking, the government gets something like 97% of its interest payments back! In essence, the Fed gives the Treasury interest-free loans. *** By the way, I have to correct one mistake I made in my previous posts... The FOMC isn't actually part of Congress, as I erroneously stated. It's made up of the Board of Governors appointed by the POTUS (and approved by the Senate). It is, however, subject to oversight from Congress. Just an error in terminology on my part, which does not invalidate my arguments. *** Honestly, I don't know why I keep arguing, because you're just rehashing the same, tired old conspiracy theories, none of which have any factual basis. If you're going to keep repeating statements that I've already proven false, this discussion is over.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
As for audits, you haven't proven that they aren't audited. The very text you quote shows that they are audited every year by an INDEPENDENT firm. Checks and balances.
The common claim that the Fed is accountable to the government, because it is required to report to Congress on its activities annually, is incorrect. The reports to Congress mean little unless what the Chairman reports can be verified by complete records. From its founding to this day, the Fed has never undergone a complete independent audit. Congress time after time has requested that the Fed voluntarily submit to a complete audit, and every time, it refuses.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
No, they don't have to run every decision they make through congress, because the entire point is for them to act based on economic needs, not political agendas
An private corporation that controls the nations entire monetary policy does not have a political agenda, and also setting favorable interest rates at certain times that might reflect well apon a presedent campaigning for re-election? The central bankers use every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance. When they spend that money, the people who get the new money first and are able to buy products with it benefit, and the people who get it at the end lose because, when they go to spend it, the prices have already gone up, and so they're able to buy less. And so there's a transfer of wealth and of power from some segments of the economy to others because of the actions of the central bank. And basically, those who benefit are the government itself, big banks, government contractors, and anybody who is a closely associated with the federal government. The Fed-generated bubble burst in the Wall Street crash of October 1929. Speculators who had borrowed money to buy shares when bank credit was readily available saw the stock market lose one third of its value. Bank loans totaling $7 billion were outstanding. As the speculators defaulted on their loans, bank failures spiraled, and the Great Depression set in. FEDERAL BANKING AGENCY AUDIT ACT of 1978 ---------------------------------------- The following areas are to be EXCLUDED from GAO INSPECTION: (1) transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or nonprivate inte
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
As for audits, you haven't proven that they aren't audited. The very text you quote shows that they are audited every year by an INDEPENDENT firm. Checks and balances.
The common claim that the Fed is accountable to the government, because it is required to report to Congress on its activities annually, is incorrect. The reports to Congress mean little unless what the Chairman reports can be verified by complete records. From its founding to this day, the Fed has never undergone a complete independent audit. Congress time after time has requested that the Fed voluntarily submit to a complete audit, and every time, it refuses.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
No, they don't have to run every decision they make through congress, because the entire point is for them to act based on economic needs, not political agendas
An private corporation that controls the nations entire monetary policy does not have a political agenda, and also setting favorable interest rates at certain times that might reflect well apon a presedent campaigning for re-election? The central bankers use every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance. When they spend that money, the people who get the new money first and are able to buy products with it benefit, and the people who get it at the end lose because, when they go to spend it, the prices have already gone up, and so they're able to buy less. And so there's a transfer of wealth and of power from some segments of the economy to others because of the actions of the central bank. And basically, those who benefit are the government itself, big banks, government contractors, and anybody who is a closely associated with the federal government. The Fed-generated bubble burst in the Wall Street crash of October 1929. Speculators who had borrowed money to buy shares when bank credit was readily available saw the stock market lose one third of its value. Bank loans totaling $7 billion were outstanding. As the speculators defaulted on their loans, bank failures spiraled, and the Great Depression set in. FEDERAL BANKING AGENCY AUDIT ACT of 1978 ---------------------------------------- The following areas are to be EXCLUDED from GAO INSPECTION: (1) transactions for or with a foreign central bank, government of a foreign country, or nonprivate inte
Yes, the Fed was partially to blame for the Great Depression. This is well documented and known. It was a matter of bad judgment, not malice. In short, the people in charge screwed up. That doesn't mean the system itself is defective. If some drunk drives his car onto the sidewalk and mows down a few pedestrians, do you blame the driver or the car manufacturer? And sure... The Fed is never audited... Then I suppose the following annual audit/report is just a fabrication: http://cafr1.com/STATES/FEDERAL-RESERVE/FR2008AR.pdf[^]. You must be part of the Ron Paul camp... He's been pushing to let the government do the audit themselves, instead of having it done by independent companies. You'll be pleased to know that his bill is expected to pass this fall, so the government can launch an expensive investigation to learn what it already knows.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
An private corporation that controls the nations entire monetary policy does not have a political agenda, and also setting favorable interest rates at certain times that might reflect well apon a presedent campaigning for re-election? The central bankers use every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance.
Where's your proof? The job of the Fed governors is to act in the best interests of the economy, not of the politicians. So far you're offering quotations from politicians and your own opinions, neither of which are factual.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
When they spend that money, the people who get the new money first and are able to buy products with it benefit, and the people who get it at the end lose because, when they go to spend it, the prices have already gone up, and so they're able to buy less.
You obviously have no idea how the Federal Reserve System works. Read through some of the pages on the URL I posted before. I'm not going to discuss this point until you actually understand what's going on.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (