Fix one thing
-
Tim Craig wrote:
We arose from the primordial chemical soup that was the early oceans through natural chemical processes
I don't know if I buy that either. In some ways that seems just as fanciful as the bible does to you.
Tim Craig wrote:
Adam and Eve aren't original christian, or even hebrew
Where do you get this from?
rickyjos wrote:
I don't know if I buy that either. In some ways that seems just as fanciful as the bible does to you.
So you'd rather believe a fairy tale written by neolithics just settled into an agricultural life that has no scientific backing over something with actual evidence? You've admitted you haven't been able to "get through" the bible, how have you fared with your biology book?
rickyjos wrote:
Where do you get this from?
Try this search[^]. It's well known that most of not all the stories in the old testament have earlier versions in other cultures. You have a good fairy tale and it seems to working since the masses are drooling and doling out their hard earned cash to support the priests in a priestly lifestyle, the next guy isn't going to dump a working scam for something untried.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
-
what could have happened if Adam and Eve were chinese? They would have eaten the snake and leave the fruit untouched. ;P
"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" -Pascal
-
is where do all those socks go? Do you know how many single socks I have in my drawer right now. They need to invent a dryer that will not eat socks. The world will be a much better place. :cool:
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is. [Yogi Berra]
-
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
So you like murder?
Depends which side of the gun/knife/bomb/whatever you are on...
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
So you like murder?
_Damian S_ wrote:
Depends which side of the gun/knife/bomb/whatever you are on...
You probably like raping children to.
-
Josh Gray wrote:
But then again he also told me not to trust people with a first name for a last name
Well, I can't help if people usurped the family name and made it a first name. I guess it has a nice ring and they just couldn't resist borrowing it. :) What about people who can't do better than a color for a last name? :suss:
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
-
FYI, I have answered this via email, LMK if you don't get it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
No, didn't get it. Who knows why. You can send to rkjoseph bigpond.net.au
-
rickyjos wrote:
I don't know if I buy that either. In some ways that seems just as fanciful as the bible does to you.
So you'd rather believe a fairy tale written by neolithics just settled into an agricultural life that has no scientific backing over something with actual evidence? You've admitted you haven't been able to "get through" the bible, how have you fared with your biology book?
rickyjos wrote:
Where do you get this from?
Try this search[^]. It's well known that most of not all the stories in the old testament have earlier versions in other cultures. You have a good fairy tale and it seems to working since the masses are drooling and doling out their hard earned cash to support the priests in a priestly lifestyle, the next guy isn't going to dump a working scam for something untried.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
Tim Craig wrote:
So you'd rather believe a fairy tale written by neolithics just settled into an agricultural life that has no scientific backing over something with actual evidence?
I never said I believe either view. Just interested in how people come have to come to the decision on what they believe. Doing OK with the biology books, thanks for asking.
Tim Craig wrote:
Try this search[^].
Thanks for the links. I will read as much as I can :)
-
Ah, this is always a fun debate... Time for my view... Humans evolved from primates, which evolved from something else (Hey, I'm a programmer, not a geneticist - Other people have researched these things), which evolved from other things, which evolved from still other things, over the course of millions of years... And it all probably started from a bunch of molecules that randomly assembled into something useful. It's not that silly when you think about it... There's the old adage that given an infinite number of monkeys on an infinite number of typewriters, you'd eventually get the complete works of Shakespeare... Well, think of the countless number of atoms and molecules on primordial Earth... With all of those little things bumping around, you figure eventually something interesting would happen. As for evolution... I don't see how people even dispute the concept, because it's pretty much a... what's the term, I forget... Opposite of a logical fallacy... It basically states that "Organisms that are better at surviving are more likely to survive." Combine that with the existence of cell mutation (Which has been verified plenty of times), and natural selection seems a pretty logical conclusion. So that takes care of origins. If you want to play the old game of going back and back and back to the beginning, let me summarize the argument briefly and save you some time: "Well where did the Earth come from?" ...Astronomy 101 explanation... "And where did the galaxy come from?" ...Big bang theory, etc etc... "And where did the universe come from?" ...No one knows... "Because God created the universe." "But where did 'god' come from?" "He was always there" "Maybe the universe was always there." So, now that that's out of the way... Let's talk about afterlives... Now smarter people than me have studied the intricate workings of the human brain, and you know what? It's just a biological machine. Instead of electricity, it uses oxygen and nutrients. Instead of a mouse and keyboard, we have nerve inputs. The trick is that it's pretty much all active storage... We're talking RAM, not a HDD. You cut the power, the data starts to fade away. There's still stuff in there, mainly the physical neuron pathways, but that's like saying your computer still has memory because the RAM chips still have their little circuit pathways. You pull the cord, the computer shuts off, and the memory starts to fade immediately. You may have a few seconds or minutes to restart the juice before everything f
Thanks Ian. Interesting.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
People want to think that there's some larger purpose in life. They want to think that what they do in this lifetime matters. They want the reassurance that someone is watching over them from above. I get that, and sometimes I wish I could believe that, because life would be easier to deal with
You really think that's all it is? I just feel it must be more than this. I know a lot of very intelligent people, who totally understand the "evolution" side, and believe it to be theoretically possible, but are church goers. You would like to think that it is more than just to make them feel good...
-
Thanks Ian. Interesting.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
People want to think that there's some larger purpose in life. They want to think that what they do in this lifetime matters. They want the reassurance that someone is watching over them from above. I get that, and sometimes I wish I could believe that, because life would be easier to deal with
You really think that's all it is? I just feel it must be more than this. I know a lot of very intelligent people, who totally understand the "evolution" side, and believe it to be theoretically possible, but are church goers. You would like to think that it is more than just to make them feel good...
IMO the biggest leap of faith is the leap from understanding the idea of evolution for things already alive, and assuming that all life started that way, spontaneously. It's a view that demands that life exist on other planets, because it's capable of appearing all on it's own.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
Thanks Ian. Interesting.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
People want to think that there's some larger purpose in life. They want to think that what they do in this lifetime matters. They want the reassurance that someone is watching over them from above. I get that, and sometimes I wish I could believe that, because life would be easier to deal with
You really think that's all it is? I just feel it must be more than this. I know a lot of very intelligent people, who totally understand the "evolution" side, and believe it to be theoretically possible, but are church goers. You would like to think that it is more than just to make them feel good...
Yeah, it feels like it should be more, but wishing doesn't make it true. And yes, there are many intelligent people who are church-goers. Keep in mind that what we're taught in childhood has a strong effect on us, so most people just stick with the religion they were raised into. If you were taken to church every day as a child, and had the stories of the bible drilled into your mind, it would be only natural to continue that way of thinking. I would guess the idea that life doesn't have a larger purpose is as strange and frightening to the church crowd as their beliefs are to me. Believing in a deity is a lot easier than believing in the insignificance and finality of life and death without. Then again, you have to subdivide the churchgoing crowd too. There are the ones who believe every word of the bible, the ones who think of it as mere guidance, the ones who just go because of tradition or habit, and the ones who aren't quite sure but figure it's best to err on the "safe" side, just in case. The first category are the only ones who really irk me sometimes, so I generally try to avoid them. I know it sounds arrogant to sit here and say flat out that over 90% of the population of the world is wrong (Whatever the exact percentage of theists is), but when I look at religions, I see codes of behavior based on seemingly-fictional works. I actually use some of the concepts preached by the religious folks in my novel (Creationist theory, for example, and relatively-omnipotent gods), because it makes for a more interesting story in this case, but that doesn't make it any less a work of fiction. Hey, maybe I'll reach the end of my lifetime, die, and realize I was completely wrong about all of this. Then again, maybe I'll win the MegaMillions jackpot tomorrow (Or whenever the next drawing is), even though I've never bought a ticket. Personally, I consider them equally likely.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
-
IMO the biggest leap of faith is the leap from understanding the idea of evolution for things already alive, and assuming that all life started that way, spontaneously. It's a view that demands that life exist on other planets, because it's capable of appearing all on it's own.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
It's a view that demands that life exist on other planets, because it's capable of appearing all on it's own.
Indeed, and I do believe there are probably other civilizations out there. The trouble is the sheer number of worlds out there, versus the relatively-short geological timespan of a sentient race, versus the distance and communication lag between those worlds. Unfortunately, whether we'll actually LOCATE and CONTACT another intelligent species is rather unlikely, I think. As for the former, though... The best example of thinking in this direction is the Drake Equation (Wikipedia)[^].
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
-
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
So you like murder?
_Damian S_ wrote:
Depends which side of the gun/knife/bomb/whatever you are on...
You probably like raping children to.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You probably like raping children to.
Depends which side... hey, wait a minute!! You tried to trick me there!!
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
-
Tim Craig wrote:
And, of course, you're the arbiter of what is a false religion
No. God is.
Tim Craig wrote:
As I recall, you don't believe Catholics are Christians even though they had a monopoly on it for 1500 years and you couldn't even begin to call yourself a Christian if not for them.
Well, Catholics don't believe what the Bible says, they believe what the Pope has invented. Yes, in the mainstream, they were the only game in town for a long time. I am not sure if I believe that there were actually no Christians in that time frame, but the core issue is simply that you don't care what the bible says, or who is a Christian. So, there's really no frame of reference I could hope to use to discuss it with you.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I don't think I would ever go as far as to say that Catholics aren't Christian. I guess what I mean my that, even though Catholic teaching doesn't line up with the Bible, I believe that there are Catholics who have placed their faith in the Gospel of Christ. I have also met others that have placed their whole faith in the fact that some priest sprinkled them when water when they were a baby.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit The men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen." Me blog, You read
-
Tim Craig wrote:
So you'd rather believe a fairy tale written by neolithics just settled into an agricultural life that has no scientific backing over something with actual evidence?
I never said I believe either view. Just interested in how people come have to come to the decision on what they believe. Doing OK with the biology books, thanks for asking.
Tim Craig wrote:
Try this search[^].
Thanks for the links. I will read as much as I can :)
Something else for you to think about. Look at how many religions there currently are and how many there have been. Many, if not most, claim to be "the one true religion" and their diety or dieties are the only real ones and all other religions are false. Why is one right and the others are wrong? Some "book" says so? Most of those books can be traced to one or several human authors. Why is one more right than the others? Some are just derivations of earlier religions so why is the new interpretation correct and the old one wrong? Are dieties so confused about what they want?
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
-
I don't think I would ever go as far as to say that Catholics aren't Christian. I guess what I mean my that, even though Catholic teaching doesn't line up with the Bible, I believe that there are Catholics who have placed their faith in the Gospel of Christ. I have also met others that have placed their whole faith in the fact that some priest sprinkled them when water when they were a baby.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit The men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen." Me blog, You read
Gary Kirkham wrote:
I believe that there are Catholics who have placed their faith in the Gospel of Christ.
Well, it's one thing to say that a religion is not Christian, it's another to judge every person who has ever set foot in a Catholic church. I would be loathe to comment on the latter, that's between each individual and God. I would just say that the Gospel is obscured at best if you search for it amongst Catholic dogma.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
Gary Kirkham wrote:
I believe that there are Catholics who have placed their faith in the Gospel of Christ.
Well, it's one thing to say that a religion is not Christian, it's another to judge every person who has ever set foot in a Catholic church. I would be loathe to comment on the latter, that's between each individual and God. I would just say that the Gospel is obscured at best if you search for it amongst Catholic dogma.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
That's where I thought you were coming from, but I just wanted to clarify.
Gary Kirkham Forever Forgiven and Alive in the Spirit The men said to them, "Why do you seek the living One among the dead? He is not here, but He has risen." Me blog, You read