Constitutional Law
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OK I'm seriously glad I started a healthy debate. Finally... a real debate. Let's continue. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Article VI: Debts, Supremacy, Oaths This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding. My argument is that, for this very reason of this being a document and no other reason, the Constitution is NOT A LIVING DOCUMENT! What in the fuck is a LIVING DOCUMENT?! A document can be amended. I do it all the time on my computer. It can be changed. AS LONG AS THE PEOPLE WANT IT TO CHANGE. If the people want it to change, let it change. But do not make law that contradicts the supreme Law of the Land. And CSS... if you want to argue for or against my arguments, please don't namecall... that kills our point of view. No matter how much they shit on the Law of our Land. (This is a republic, not a democracy. They have the right to be wrong, and no matter how much the Constitution protects them.) Next argument. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Article I: The Legislative Branch Section 8: Powers of Congress The Congress shall have Power... To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures. So where's the "Federal Reserve" clause?
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As for the Federal Reserve question (Separate post, to keep things distinct)... Technically, the Federal Reserve does NOT regulate the value of the currency. The value of the currency really isn't regulated at all. It's as valuable as people THINK it is. The Federal Reserve indirectly influences its value by, as its name suggests, varying the amount of money it keeps in reserve. See, if we were still gold-backed, then currency would have a finite value... $1 is worth X ounces of gold (Ok, much less than an ounce, but 0.0001 is still a number). Since we're not gold-backed (Actually, I don't think any country still uses gold-backed currency), how do you define the value of a dollar? The Fed, by the way, was created via the Federal Reserve Act of... I think it was 1913, but don't quote me on that. So it's not in the Constitution itself, obviously.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Ian Shlasko wrote:
Technically, the Federal Reserve does NOT regulate the value of the currency.
Technically you are wrong! It has direct control over how much money is in circulation, if it pumps more money into the economy faster than the growth of the economy then there will be inflation.
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To clarify, though... I'm not at all claiming the Fed to be unconstitutional. I'm saying that the Constitution does not forbid its creation or operation. If it did, Congress would have had to pass an amendment to allow it.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Just like they passed the Patriot Acts after deleting most of the amendments to the Bill of Rights right? They don't give a damn about the constitution, they do as they please.
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The government ONLY has power ENUMERATED by the constitution. If it doesn't say the government have that power, then it doesn't have that power.
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OH GODS! The park service is unconstitutional! The cops are all a lie aren't they! They aren't in the constitution either!
Distind wrote:
The cops are all a lie aren't they!
Federal cops? The Federal Police Force? Well the BATF and DEA and IRS police carrying M16s are driving tanks are illegal.
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Distind wrote:
The cops are all a lie aren't they!
Federal cops? The Federal Police Force? Well the BATF and DEA and IRS police carrying M16s are driving tanks are illegal.
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Distind wrote:
The cops are all a lie aren't they!
Federal cops? The Federal Police Force? Well the BATF and DEA and IRS police carrying M16s are driving tanks are illegal.
Hey CSS... you might be interested in this. http://origin.peg.tv/pegtv_player?affiliate=T00910[^] In this dialog, go to Categories, then Danvers Access Shows, and check out The Currency of Democracy. This is my show, talking about different things such as this. Let me know what you think.
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Ian Shlasko wrote:
Technically, the Federal Reserve does NOT regulate the value of the currency.
Technically you are wrong! It has direct control over how much money is in circulation, if it pumps more money into the economy faster than the growth of the economy then there will be inflation.
It regulates the AMOUNT, not the value. One influences the other, but it's not the same thing. And like I said... What's a dollar worth? Give me a number... What is the value of $1?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Hey CSS... you might be interested in this. http://origin.peg.tv/pegtv_player?affiliate=T00910[^] In this dialog, go to Categories, then Danvers Access Shows, and check out The Currency of Democracy. This is my show, talking about different things such as this. Let me know what you think.
I'd like to mention, I'm being flippant in his direction not yours. It's just that the Fed is something I've argued out so many times I tend to get a tad terse on it. About the only thing I'm worse on is income taxes, back before I lost the forum it was on I'd just post a link to a post I made to educate the snot out of some business major who didn't understand the very basics of the system in place in the US.
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lol irrelevant... money is involved in everyone's life. it is the most relevant topic in the world, and i don't know how it's been under everyone's noses for so long without question.
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Richard MacCutchan wrote:
what is it with yous guys?
I believe the proper Brooklynese is 'youse'. :-D
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It regulates the AMOUNT, not the value. One influences the other, but it's not the same thing. And like I said... What's a dollar worth? Give me a number... What is the value of $1?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
Sure, I'll give you a value. It costs you $1080 for one ounce of gold. You know how much it was back in 1971? $30. I'd say there's always inflation. The dollar loses value constantly. You just don't see it. It's a piece of paper. Paper has negligible value, compared to rare metal.
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Just like they passed the Patriot Acts after deleting most of the amendments to the Bill of Rights right? They don't give a damn about the constitution, they do as they please.
Show me exactly which amendments were deleted. Far as I know, they're still there. And if you think the Patriot Act contradicts them, show me exactly where and how. Which clauses? What exact words? If you can prove that, then maybe you should be talking to your Senators... Personally, I would love to see the Patriot Act torn up, as I'm a bit sick of the government using the "terrorist threat" and "think of the children" to gain support for just about anything... But as far as I know, it was all done legally.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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It regulates the AMOUNT, not the value. One influences the other, but it's not the same thing. And like I said... What's a dollar worth? Give me a number... What is the value of $1?
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
They can easily regulate its value. A dollar is worth over 95% less than what it was worth just before the federal reserve was established.
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LunaticFringe wrote:
I believe the proper Brooklynese is 'youse'.
Damn, my English -> Drivel dictionary is out of date. :((
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Sure, I'll give you a value. It costs you $1080 for one ounce of gold. You know how much it was back in 1971? $30. I'd say there's always inflation. The dollar loses value constantly. You just don't see it. It's a piece of paper. Paper has negligible value, compared to rare metal.
I'm not saying it isn't losing value. I'm saying it doesn't have a set value. Why exactly does it cost $1080 for an ounce of gold? Because that's what people are willing to pay. There's no government agency or private corporation saying "Ok, today the price of gold is going to be $1080!" It's worth $1080 because people think it's worth $1080.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
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Show me exactly which amendments were deleted. Far as I know, they're still there. And if you think the Patriot Act contradicts them, show me exactly where and how. Which clauses? What exact words? If you can prove that, then maybe you should be talking to your Senators... Personally, I would love to see the Patriot Act torn up, as I'm a bit sick of the government using the "terrorist threat" and "think of the children" to gain support for just about anything... But as far as I know, it was all done legally.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
My point was that they do pass unconstitutional laws.
Ian Shlasko wrote:
nd if you think the Patriot Act contradicts them, show me exactly where and how.
Wiretapping, illegal search and seizures, putting American people on criminal watch lists without a trial , that prevent them from flying and so on. You can look it up.
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As for the Federal Reserve question (Separate post, to keep things distinct)... Technically, the Federal Reserve does NOT regulate the value of the currency. The value of the currency really isn't regulated at all. It's as valuable as people THINK it is. The Federal Reserve indirectly influences its value by, as its name suggests, varying the amount of money it keeps in reserve. See, if we were still gold-backed, then currency would have a finite value... $1 is worth X ounces of gold (Ok, much less than an ounce, but 0.0001 is still a number). Since we're not gold-backed (Actually, I don't think any country still uses gold-backed currency), how do you define the value of a dollar? The Fed, by the way, was created via the Federal Reserve Act of... I think it was 1913, but don't quote me on that. So it's not in the Constitution itself, obviously.
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Developer, Author (Guardians of Xen)
There's a slight problem with this to the extent of the reserve's interest rate on it's loans to banks effectively setting a minimum rate at which banks will loan money, and greatly influencing the rates of nearly every other financial activity. That seems to be a great deal of 'regulating the value' to me.