Something to know about Christopher Monckton
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Thank you Wolfbinary for confirming my posting here http://www.codeproject.com/Messages/3238596/Re-The-End-of-America.aspx[^] :)
I'd missed your post. When I get really busy I tend to not visit. :)
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Whenever I see BS posts I tend to look up some aspect of it, like the person spewing the trash someone has posted about. Wikipedia had an interesting bit on his position on AIDS. Monckton's views on how the AIDS epidemic should be tackled have been the subject of some controversy. In an article for The American Spectator entitled "AIDS: A British View",[43] written for the January 1987 issue of The American Spectator, he argued that "there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently." This would involve isolating between 1.5 and 3 million people in the United States ("not altogether impossible") and another 30,000 people in the UK ("not insuperably difficult"). The article was highly controversial, with The American Spectator's then assistant managing editor, Andrew Ferguson, denouncing it in the letters column of the same issue.[44] Monckton appeared on the BBC's Panorama programme in February 1987 to discuss his views and present the results of an opinion poll that found public support for his position.[36] In 1999 the British gay rights group OutRage! launched a campaign to force the manufacturer of Monckton's Eternity Puzzle to disassociate itself from him because of his views.[45] Monckton has since clarified his views on AIDS, stating that "the article was written at the very outset of the AIDS epidemic, and with 33 million people around the world now infected, the possibility of [quarantine] is laughable. It couldn't work." source: wiki[^] If this is how he thinks about AIDS. He obviously doesn't think before he speaks. Neither does CSS apparently. Monckton doesn't have any problem with locking people up for having AIDS and seems to think that they all come from gay people. The problem I have with people taking these obtuse positions on things is they don't leave any room to be wrong. They vilify people who don't agree or poke holes in their reasoning or lack of it. Pssst CSS that's you I'm talking about.
wolfbinary wrote:
Monckton doesn't have any problem with locking people up for having AIDS and seems to think that they all come from gay people.
Quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic. I don't see anything in your quote about gay people, however, in 1987, I seem to recall that AIDS WAS regarded as a mostly 'gay' disease.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I want him to. I expect to be called names, etc. He's not much for original sources and most supposed media people aren't. I did order pizza actually and bread sticks for lunch today. Got some Dr.Pepper too. :laugh:
I had take-out pasta :)
Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in? Author of Guardians of Xen (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novel)
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wolfbinary wrote:
Monckton doesn't have any problem with locking people up for having AIDS and seems to think that they all come from gay people.
Quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic. I don't see anything in your quote about gay people, however, in 1987, I seem to recall that AIDS WAS regarded as a mostly 'gay' disease.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic.
Not according to CSS it isn't. He's posted about FEMA camps, etc and forced vaccinations, etc.
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't see anything in your quote about gay people, however, in 1987, I seem to recall that AIDS WAS regarded as a mostly 'gay' disease.
The article he wrote was: "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS" in American Spectator. I was guessing based on the title that he thinks it is only gays.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic.
Not according to CSS it isn't. He's posted about FEMA camps, etc and forced vaccinations, etc.
Christian Graus wrote:
I don't see anything in your quote about gay people, however, in 1987, I seem to recall that AIDS WAS regarded as a mostly 'gay' disease.
The article he wrote was: "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS" in American Spectator. I was guessing based on the title that he thinks it is only gays.
wolfbinary wrote:
Not according to CSS it isn't. He's posted about FEMA camps, etc and forced vaccinations, etc.
CSS is a retard. That doesn't change that quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic.
wolfbinary wrote:
The article he wrote was: "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS" in American Spectator. I was guessing based on the title that he thinks it is only gays.
OK. Well, you didn't say that. Like I said, in 1987, my recollection is that AIDS was hitting gays and drug users. A better question would be, assuming he is a homophobe, or whatever, how does that impact his ability to understand climate data ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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wolfbinary wrote:
Monckton doesn't have any problem with locking people up for having AIDS and seems to think that they all come from gay people.
Quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic. I don't see anything in your quote about gay people, however, in 1987, I seem to recall that AIDS WAS regarded as a mostly 'gay' disease.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
The problem, aside from the increasingly common notion that "my rights" trump those of the community in all cases is that quarantines cost/benefit analysis is predicated on most people only being contagious for a short period of time and life long carriers[^]. Quarantining millions of people for decades would be staggeringly expensive even if the vast majority of them were willing. :sigh: Quarantine might have worked in the early 80's; but even then the lack of an effective blood test and the multiple year asymptomatic incubation period probably would've resulted in failure even if the initial outbreak's association with the gay community hadn't've resulted in fanatical opposition from civil liberties types.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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wolfbinary wrote:
Not according to CSS it isn't. He's posted about FEMA camps, etc and forced vaccinations, etc.
CSS is a retard. That doesn't change that quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic.
wolfbinary wrote:
The article he wrote was: "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS" in American Spectator. I was guessing based on the title that he thinks it is only gays.
OK. Well, you didn't say that. Like I said, in 1987, my recollection is that AIDS was hitting gays and drug users. A better question would be, assuming he is a homophobe, or whatever, how does that impact his ability to understand climate data ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
how does that impact his ability to understand climate data ?
It has to do with MO and understanding his(Christopher Monckton) points of view. Understanding a source's particular bend on things and their viewpoint. That is the point of the post. I was merely using CSS as an example of what not doing this is. Off topic here, but previously you'd stated that there were too many people on the planet and you think that economic incentives should be used to encourage people to have fewer children and an allotment of one per couple. If you have more than two now why did you have more if you think this? Was it because it isn't currently against the law?
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The problem, aside from the increasingly common notion that "my rights" trump those of the community in all cases is that quarantines cost/benefit analysis is predicated on most people only being contagious for a short period of time and life long carriers[^]. Quarantining millions of people for decades would be staggeringly expensive even if the vast majority of them were willing. :sigh: Quarantine might have worked in the early 80's; but even then the lack of an effective blood test and the multiple year asymptomatic incubation period probably would've resulted in failure even if the initial outbreak's association with the gay community hadn't've resulted in fanatical opposition from civil liberties types.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
Dan Neely wrote:
increasingly common notion that "my rights" trump those of the community in all cases
Why doesn't it? When does a person loose their rights when no law has been broken? I'm asking only as food for thought.
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Christian Graus wrote:
how does that impact his ability to understand climate data ?
It has to do with MO and understanding his(Christopher Monckton) points of view. Understanding a source's particular bend on things and their viewpoint. That is the point of the post. I was merely using CSS as an example of what not doing this is. Off topic here, but previously you'd stated that there were too many people on the planet and you think that economic incentives should be used to encourage people to have fewer children and an allotment of one per couple. If you have more than two now why did you have more if you think this? Was it because it isn't currently against the law?
wolfbinary wrote:
It has to do with MO and understanding his(Christopher Monckton) points of view.
It points to his willingness to say what he thinks, even if it's unpopular. But, as I keep saying, in 1987, it was generally believed that AIDS was a gay disease.
wolfbinary wrote:
If you have more than two now why did you have more if you think this? Was it because it isn't currently against the law?
Fair question. We have two. I am not sure that I see the point in a handful of people not having kids, if nothing is happening on a wider scale, it simply wouldn't make a lot of difference. If there was a move to try to curb excessive breeding, I'd support it, but until there is, I'd be more concerned that society needs my taxpaying children more than it needs the bludgers being popped out at an incredible rate by bogans.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Dan Neely wrote:
increasingly common notion that "my rights" trump those of the community in all cases
Why doesn't it? When does a person loose their rights when no law has been broken? I'm asking only as food for thought.
Your right to swing your fist stops at my nose. If you're contagious with something highly communicable you're punching everyone who comes near you in the face. Likewise your right to yell "Fire!" stops with my right not to be trampled in a mob, to have my taxes wasted due to your false alarm, and to have my property destroyed because the fire fighters were responding to your false alarm when mine caught fire.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
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wolfbinary wrote:
It has to do with MO and understanding his(Christopher Monckton) points of view.
It points to his willingness to say what he thinks, even if it's unpopular. But, as I keep saying, in 1987, it was generally believed that AIDS was a gay disease.
wolfbinary wrote:
If you have more than two now why did you have more if you think this? Was it because it isn't currently against the law?
Fair question. We have two. I am not sure that I see the point in a handful of people not having kids, if nothing is happening on a wider scale, it simply wouldn't make a lot of difference. If there was a move to try to curb excessive breeding, I'd support it, but until there is, I'd be more concerned that society needs my taxpaying children more than it needs the bludgers being popped out at an incredible rate by bogans.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
It points to his willingness to say what he thinks, even if it's unpopular. But, as I keep saying, in 1987, it was generally believed that AIDS was a gay disease.
I was barely around for that, but I've heard that. Since not much was known about it back then I can see how that would be the case however myopic at the time. As another poster has said earlier in the thread he took back the statement later. What do you know about what made people think it was generally a gay disease? "bogans" that's a funny word, I understand the meaning, but it's still funny to me. :laugh:
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wolfbinary wrote:
Not according to CSS it isn't. He's posted about FEMA camps, etc and forced vaccinations, etc.
CSS is a retard. That doesn't change that quarantine is a perfectly logical way to deal with an epidemic.
wolfbinary wrote:
The article he wrote was: "The Myth of Heterosexual AIDS" in American Spectator. I was guessing based on the title that he thinks it is only gays.
OK. Well, you didn't say that. Like I said, in 1987, my recollection is that AIDS was hitting gays and drug users. A better question would be, assuming he is a homophobe, or whatever, how does that impact his ability to understand climate data ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Your right to swing your fist stops at my nose. If you're contagious with something highly communicable you're punching everyone who comes near you in the face. Likewise your right to yell "Fire!" stops with my right not to be trampled in a mob, to have my taxes wasted due to your false alarm, and to have my property destroyed because the fire fighters were responding to your false alarm when mine caught fire.
3x12=36 2x12=24 1x12=12 0x12=18
How about when a company does something criminal? What rights do companies have?
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Christian Graus wrote:
It points to his willingness to say what he thinks, even if it's unpopular. But, as I keep saying, in 1987, it was generally believed that AIDS was a gay disease.
I was barely around for that, but I've heard that. Since not much was known about it back then I can see how that would be the case however myopic at the time. As another poster has said earlier in the thread he took back the statement later. What do you know about what made people think it was generally a gay disease? "bogans" that's a funny word, I understand the meaning, but it's still funny to me. :laugh:
wolfbinary wrote:
What do you know about what made people think it was generally a gay disease?
It started in the gay community. People thought it was a gay disease because almost everyone who had it, was gay.
wolfbinary wrote:
"bogans" that's a funny word, I understand the meaning, but it's still funny to me.
I don't know where it comes from. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogan[^] doesn't know, either.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
assuming he is a homophobe
No way. He went to Harrow. :)
Bob Emmett
What do you mean by Harrow? I'm not familiar with that reference, as I'm from the states.
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What do you mean by Harrow? I'm not familiar with that reference, as I'm from the states.
I assume it's a school, and British boarding schools in particular are 'known' for gay activity.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Whenever I see BS posts I tend to look up some aspect of it, like the person spewing the trash someone has posted about. Wikipedia had an interesting bit on his position on AIDS. Monckton's views on how the AIDS epidemic should be tackled have been the subject of some controversy. In an article for The American Spectator entitled "AIDS: A British View",[43] written for the January 1987 issue of The American Spectator, he argued that "there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently." This would involve isolating between 1.5 and 3 million people in the United States ("not altogether impossible") and another 30,000 people in the UK ("not insuperably difficult"). The article was highly controversial, with The American Spectator's then assistant managing editor, Andrew Ferguson, denouncing it in the letters column of the same issue.[44] Monckton appeared on the BBC's Panorama programme in February 1987 to discuss his views and present the results of an opinion poll that found public support for his position.[36] In 1999 the British gay rights group OutRage! launched a campaign to force the manufacturer of Monckton's Eternity Puzzle to disassociate itself from him because of his views.[45] Monckton has since clarified his views on AIDS, stating that "the article was written at the very outset of the AIDS epidemic, and with 33 million people around the world now infected, the possibility of [quarantine] is laughable. It couldn't work." source: wiki[^] If this is how he thinks about AIDS. He obviously doesn't think before he speaks. Neither does CSS apparently. Monckton doesn't have any problem with locking people up for having AIDS and seems to think that they all come from gay people. The problem I have with people taking these obtuse positions on things is they don't leave any room to be wrong. They vilify people who don't agree or poke holes in their reasoning or lack of it. Pssst CSS that's you I'm talking about.
wolfbinary wrote:
He obviously doesn't think before he speaks.
How do you work that one out? In 1987, that would have been a sensible option (assuming that there was some way of testing that was failsafe, there were facilities to house everyone etc). It might not have been a popular opinion, but to suggest that he didn't think before he spoke is a little disingenuous.
wolfbinary wrote:
seems to think that they all come from gay people.
Where in the quote does it say anything about gay people? (Apart from the gay rights activists.)
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
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Whenever I see BS posts I tend to look up some aspect of it, like the person spewing the trash someone has posted about. Wikipedia had an interesting bit on his position on AIDS. Monckton's views on how the AIDS epidemic should be tackled have been the subject of some controversy. In an article for The American Spectator entitled "AIDS: A British View",[43] written for the January 1987 issue of The American Spectator, he argued that "there is only one way to stop AIDS. That is to screen the entire population regularly and to quarantine all carriers of the disease for life. Every member of the population should be blood-tested every month ... all those found to be infected with the virus, even if only as carriers, should be isolated compulsorily, immediately, and permanently." This would involve isolating between 1.5 and 3 million people in the United States ("not altogether impossible") and another 30,000 people in the UK ("not insuperably difficult"). The article was highly controversial, with The American Spectator's then assistant managing editor, Andrew Ferguson, denouncing it in the letters column of the same issue.[44] Monckton appeared on the BBC's Panorama programme in February 1987 to discuss his views and present the results of an opinion poll that found public support for his position.[36] In 1999 the British gay rights group OutRage! launched a campaign to force the manufacturer of Monckton's Eternity Puzzle to disassociate itself from him because of his views.[45] Monckton has since clarified his views on AIDS, stating that "the article was written at the very outset of the AIDS epidemic, and with 33 million people around the world now infected, the possibility of [quarantine] is laughable. It couldn't work." source: wiki[^] If this is how he thinks about AIDS. He obviously doesn't think before he speaks. Neither does CSS apparently. Monckton doesn't have any problem with locking people up for having AIDS and seems to think that they all come from gay people. The problem I have with people taking these obtuse positions on things is they don't leave any room to be wrong. They vilify people who don't agree or poke holes in their reasoning or lack of it. Pssst CSS that's you I'm talking about.
Something else to know about Monckton is that he made this comment 23 years ago and was not stating his own idea but instead was bringing forward information from disease control experts. Media Matters recently wrote a piece on this and it was very misleading. I know this is going to shock you, but I know Monckton and he cares very deeply for those who either are dying or have died from AIDS. If you follow these links you'll see one, that he tears up every time he talks about those who have died and two, he's working on a cure for HIV patients because he cares so deeply for them. For future reference, Media Matters and Wiki are not good places to go for object information on skeptics. Both have an anti-skeptic agenda that is far from hidden. http://www.hootervillegazette.com/truthmatterstoo.html[^] http://www.hootervillegazette.com/mofb.html[^] I bring this information to you in spirit of cooperation. Had I read the wiki piece only, I would have drawn the same conclusion you did. Sincerely, Mark Gillar P.S. Private email replies will be answered.
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What do you mean by Harrow? I'm not familiar with that reference, as I'm from the states.
wolfbinary wrote:
What do you mean by Harrow?
Harrow[^] and Eton[^] are the top private schools for the upper classes (or those that can pay and aren't complete oiks). As they are boys only boarding schools, containing effete aristocrats, it is assumed by we oiks that certain "relationships" are formed.
wolfbinary wrote:
I'm from the states
Then a further explanation is required. Oik: derogatory, slang, a person regarded as inferior because ignorant, ill-educated, or lower-class.
Bob Emmett
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wolfbinary wrote:
He obviously doesn't think before he speaks.
How do you work that one out? In 1987, that would have been a sensible option (assuming that there was some way of testing that was failsafe, there were facilities to house everyone etc). It might not have been a popular opinion, but to suggest that he didn't think before he spoke is a little disingenuous.
wolfbinary wrote:
seems to think that they all come from gay people.
Where in the quote does it say anything about gay people? (Apart from the gay rights activists.)
I don't have ADHD, I have ADOS... Attention Deficit oooh SHINY!! Booger Mobile (n) - A bright green 1964 Ford Falcon - our entry into the Camp Quality esCarpade!! Do something wonderful - make a donation to Camp Quality today!!
_Damian S_ wrote:
there were facilities to house everyone etc
He later came back to say that it was impractical. They new by 1987 that it wasn't airborne.
_Damian S_ wrote:
Where in the quote does it say anything about gay people? (Apart from the gay rights activists.)
I got that from the title of the article the wiki entry sites as a source. It was called something like "The Heterosexual AIDS myth". Sounds rather insightful.