Skip to content
  • Categories
  • Recent
  • Tags
  • Popular
  • World
  • Users
  • Groups
Skins
  • Light
  • Cerulean
  • Cosmo
  • Flatly
  • Journal
  • Litera
  • Lumen
  • Lux
  • Materia
  • Minty
  • Morph
  • Pulse
  • Sandstone
  • Simplex
  • Sketchy
  • Spacelab
  • United
  • Yeti
  • Zephyr
  • Dark
  • Cyborg
  • Darkly
  • Quartz
  • Slate
  • Solar
  • Superhero
  • Vapor

  • Default (No Skin)
  • No Skin
Collapse
Code Project
  1. Home
  2. Other Discussions
  3. The Back Room
  4. Charleston Firefighters FORCED to take down a Nativity Scene on public property

Charleston Firefighters FORCED to take down a Nativity Scene on public property

Scheduled Pinned Locked Moved The Back Room
htmlcom
27 Posts 7 Posters 0 Views 1 Watching
  • Oldest to Newest
  • Newest to Oldest
  • Most Votes
Reply
  • Reply as topic
Log in to reply
This topic has been deleted. Only users with topic management privileges can see it.
  • F Offline
    F Offline
    fred_
    wrote on last edited by
    #1

    http://www.firefighterhourly.com/firefighter_hourly/2009/12/nativity-scene-at-fire-station-in-charleston-history.html[^] Go Back to Wisconsin .. It was private property !!!!

    C D 2 Replies Last reply
    0
    • F fred_

      http://www.firefighterhourly.com/firefighter_hourly/2009/12/nativity-scene-at-fire-station-in-charleston-history.html[^] Go Back to Wisconsin .. It was private property !!!!

      C Offline
      C Offline
      Corporal Agarn
      wrote on last edited by
      #2

      The city still ordered it down because it was inconsiderate of other religions.

      Funny taking it down is inconsiderate to mine!

      C R 2 Replies Last reply
      0
      • F fred_

        http://www.firefighterhourly.com/firefighter_hourly/2009/12/nativity-scene-at-fire-station-in-charleston-history.html[^] Go Back to Wisconsin .. It was private property !!!!

        D Offline
        D Offline
        Distind
        wrote on last edited by
        #3

        Er, explain this to me, so it was still the fire department backing the display of it, but since it was on private property it's ok for them to do it? If the guy put it out there on his own, sure, this is stupid, but that doesn't sound like that to me.

        F 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • C Corporal Agarn

          The city still ordered it down because it was inconsiderate of other religions.

          Funny taking it down is inconsiderate to mine!

          C Offline
          C Offline
          Christian Graus
          wrote on last edited by
          #4

          The amusing thing is that it's rarely the people of 'other religions' who complain, they just laugh when they find out how we get ourselves in knots over dumb stuff like this.

          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • D Distind

            Er, explain this to me, so it was still the fire department backing the display of it, but since it was on private property it's ok for them to do it? If the guy put it out there on his own, sure, this is stupid, but that doesn't sound like that to me.

            F Offline
            F Offline
            fred_
            wrote on last edited by
            #5

            wasn't Government propery, therefore YES! The propery owner OK'd the display.

            D 1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • C Corporal Agarn

              The city still ordered it down because it was inconsiderate of other religions.

              Funny taking it down is inconsiderate to mine!

              R Offline
              R Offline
              ragnaroknrol
              wrote on last edited by
              #6

              How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.

              C F T 3 Replies Last reply
              0
              • F fred_

                wasn't Government propery, therefore YES! The propery owner OK'd the display.

                D Offline
                D Offline
                Distind
                wrote on last edited by
                #7

                Ok'd, but it wasn't his idea? If it helps quell the moral outrage, I can at least point out that most any depiction of the nativity is going to be completely inaccurate due to the lack of detail from the bible.

                F 1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • D Distind

                  Ok'd, but it wasn't his idea? If it helps quell the moral outrage, I can at least point out that most any depiction of the nativity is going to be completely inaccurate due to the lack of detail from the bible.

                  F Offline
                  F Offline
                  fred_
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #8

                  They had displayed it for years. One person complained every year, so this year they moved it off public property... That person brought someone from out of state into the issue. Legally it WAS their right, but the city caved in.

                  D T 2 Replies Last reply
                  0
                  • R ragnaroknrol

                    How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.

                    C Offline
                    C Offline
                    Christian Graus
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #9

                    ragnaroknrol wrote:

                    have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years.

                    Perhaps, but the trees and eggs are to do with other religions being absorbed into christendom, not being attacked by it.

                    ragnaroknrol wrote:

                    They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens.

                    Well, Xmas itself is hardly Christian in any realistic sense. However, the idea that a Christian can't show what they believe, is at it's heart, the triumph of athiesm and the death of freedom of religion.

                    ragnaroknrol wrote:

                    As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans.

                    It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.

                    Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

                    R 1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • C Christian Graus

                      ragnaroknrol wrote:

                      have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years.

                      Perhaps, but the trees and eggs are to do with other religions being absorbed into christendom, not being attacked by it.

                      ragnaroknrol wrote:

                      They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens.

                      Well, Xmas itself is hardly Christian in any realistic sense. However, the idea that a Christian can't show what they believe, is at it's heart, the triumph of athiesm and the death of freedom of religion.

                      ragnaroknrol wrote:

                      As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans.

                      It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.

                      Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

                      R Offline
                      R Offline
                      ragnaroknrol
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #10

                      Christian Graus wrote:

                      It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.

                      The Romans were adding the pagan religions to their own. "You can worship your old gods. Worship ours too." And most pagans had no issues with that. "Oh, he's a god, cool. No skin off my teeth. Long as I can worship my gods too and they don't get mad I am good." Dammit, it always gets down to the Romans being a-holes doesn't it?

                      C 1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • F fred_

                        They had displayed it for years. One person complained every year, so this year they moved it off public property... That person brought someone from out of state into the issue. Legally it WAS their right, but the city caved in.

                        D Offline
                        D Offline
                        Distind
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #11

                        So they attempted to exploit a legal loop hole to allow the fire department to back a display of religious significance? By moving it a yard over? And they didn't expect the exact same complaints, only with more vigor as their actions could easily be interpreted as an admission of wrong doing in the past.

                        F 1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • R ragnaroknrol

                          Christian Graus wrote:

                          It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.

                          The Romans were adding the pagan religions to their own. "You can worship your old gods. Worship ours too." And most pagans had no issues with that. "Oh, he's a god, cool. No skin off my teeth. Long as I can worship my gods too and they don't get mad I am good." Dammit, it always gets down to the Romans being a-holes doesn't it?

                          C Offline
                          C Offline
                          Christian Graus
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #12

                          ragnaroknrol wrote:

                          Dammit, it always gets down to the Romans being a-holes doesn't it?

                          I'm afraid so :-)

                          Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.

                          1 Reply Last reply
                          0
                          • D Distind

                            So they attempted to exploit a legal loop hole to allow the fire department to back a display of religious significance? By moving it a yard over? And they didn't expect the exact same complaints, only with more vigor as their actions could easily be interpreted as an admission of wrong doing in the past.

                            F Offline
                            F Offline
                            fred_
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #13

                            It's not illegal.. the Mayor and Fire Cheif are spinless. No one local has supported them. Just the out of town people .. do you have a clue how far WI is from SC?

                            D 1 Reply Last reply
                            0
                            • R ragnaroknrol

                              How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.

                              F Offline
                              F Offline
                              fred_
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #14

                              No complaints about Christmas trees lodged.

                              1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • R ragnaroknrol

                                How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.

                                T Offline
                                T Offline
                                Tim Craig
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #15

                                :thumbsup::thumbsup:

                                You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • F fred_

                                  It's not illegal.. the Mayor and Fire Cheif are spinless. No one local has supported them. Just the out of town people .. do you have a clue how far WI is from SC?

                                  D Offline
                                  D Offline
                                  Distind
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #16

                                  This has exactly what to do with what I said? Their actions make it look like they're attempting to circumvent something, which makes them appear guilty, which if piled on with blind support for something that the department itself should have nothing to do with(if individuals want to, fine, not the department, there needs to be a distinction there), would make them look like a bunch of idiots attempting to dance around a long standing issue. But they didn't, they most likely realized what it looked like, and continuing with it would have caused them to be the next 'backwater hicks refuse to take down nativity scene' on cnn, along with details on the historic 'conflict' over the scene. Had they done it on their own property, odds are no one would have gotten that far with the complaints, they have no one but themselves to blame. Despite having it on department grounds being at the very least a conflict of public interest, that at least doesn't look like a stupid move to side step something.

                                  F 1 Reply Last reply
                                  0
                                  • F fred_

                                    They had displayed it for years. One person complained every year, so this year they moved it off public property... That person brought someone from out of state into the issue. Legally it WAS their right, but the city caved in.

                                    T Offline
                                    T Offline
                                    Tim Craig
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #17

                                    fred_ wrote:

                                    They had displayed it for years

                                    So violating a law for years and getting away with it makes it right? Yeah, I guess that's the right wing way of thinking.

                                    You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.

                                    F 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • D Distind

                                      This has exactly what to do with what I said? Their actions make it look like they're attempting to circumvent something, which makes them appear guilty, which if piled on with blind support for something that the department itself should have nothing to do with(if individuals want to, fine, not the department, there needs to be a distinction there), would make them look like a bunch of idiots attempting to dance around a long standing issue. But they didn't, they most likely realized what it looked like, and continuing with it would have caused them to be the next 'backwater hicks refuse to take down nativity scene' on cnn, along with details on the historic 'conflict' over the scene. Had they done it on their own property, odds are no one would have gotten that far with the complaints, they have no one but themselves to blame. Despite having it on department grounds being at the very least a conflict of public interest, that at least doesn't look like a stupid move to side step something.

                                      F Offline
                                      F Offline
                                      fred_
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #18

                                      NO that is NOT what you said. What they did was exercise their LEGAL CONSTITUTIONAL rights. And the City stepped on their toes and fail to defend them. No loop holes involved.

                                      D 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • T Tim Craig

                                        fred_ wrote:

                                        They had displayed it for years

                                        So violating a law for years and getting away with it makes it right? Yeah, I guess that's the right wing way of thinking.

                                        You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.

                                        F Offline
                                        F Offline
                                        fred_
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #19

                                        Wasn't always illegal .. Once it was they did NOT use public property. No loop holes, just their constitutional right to free speech. Interesting other Christmas symbols on public property was not disputed.

                                        T 1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • F fred_

                                          NO that is NOT what you said. What they did was exercise their LEGAL CONSTITUTIONAL rights. And the City stepped on their toes and fail to defend them. No loop holes involved.

                                          D Offline
                                          D Offline
                                          Distind
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #20

                                          ahuh, their constitutional right to display religious symbols with the backing of the local government? Note, that is the problem most people have with these things, not the fact it's displayed in the first place.

                                          1 Reply Last reply
                                          0
                                          Reply
                                          • Reply as topic
                                          Log in to reply
                                          • Oldest to Newest
                                          • Newest to Oldest
                                          • Most Votes


                                          • Login

                                          • Don't have an account? Register

                                          • Login or register to search.
                                          • First post
                                            Last post
                                          0
                                          • Categories
                                          • Recent
                                          • Tags
                                          • Popular
                                          • World
                                          • Users
                                          • Groups