Charleston Firefighters FORCED to take down a Nativity Scene on public property
-
http://www.firefighterhourly.com/firefighter_hourly/2009/12/nativity-scene-at-fire-station-in-charleston-history.html[^] Go Back to Wisconsin .. It was private property !!!!
The city still ordered it down because it was inconsiderate of other religions.
Funny taking it down is inconsiderate to mine!
-
http://www.firefighterhourly.com/firefighter_hourly/2009/12/nativity-scene-at-fire-station-in-charleston-history.html[^] Go Back to Wisconsin .. It was private property !!!!
-
The city still ordered it down because it was inconsiderate of other religions.
Funny taking it down is inconsiderate to mine!
The amusing thing is that it's rarely the people of 'other religions' who complain, they just laugh when they find out how we get ourselves in knots over dumb stuff like this.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
Er, explain this to me, so it was still the fire department backing the display of it, but since it was on private property it's ok for them to do it? If the guy put it out there on his own, sure, this is stupid, but that doesn't sound like that to me.
-
The city still ordered it down because it was inconsiderate of other religions.
Funny taking it down is inconsiderate to mine!
How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.
-
Ok'd, but it wasn't his idea? If it helps quell the moral outrage, I can at least point out that most any depiction of the nativity is going to be completely inaccurate due to the lack of detail from the bible.
-
How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years.
Perhaps, but the trees and eggs are to do with other religions being absorbed into christendom, not being attacked by it.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens.
Well, Xmas itself is hardly Christian in any realistic sense. However, the idea that a Christian can't show what they believe, is at it's heart, the triumph of athiesm and the death of freedom of religion.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans.
It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
ragnaroknrol wrote:
have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years.
Perhaps, but the trees and eggs are to do with other religions being absorbed into christendom, not being attacked by it.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens.
Well, Xmas itself is hardly Christian in any realistic sense. However, the idea that a Christian can't show what they believe, is at it's heart, the triumph of athiesm and the death of freedom of religion.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans.
It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.
The Romans were adding the pagan religions to their own. "You can worship your old gods. Worship ours too." And most pagans had no issues with that. "Oh, he's a god, cool. No skin off my teeth. Long as I can worship my gods too and they don't get mad I am good." Dammit, it always gets down to the Romans being a-holes doesn't it?
-
They had displayed it for years. One person complained every year, so this year they moved it off public property... That person brought someone from out of state into the issue. Legally it WAS their right, but the city caved in.
So they attempted to exploit a legal loop hole to allow the fire department to back a display of religious significance? By moving it a yard over? And they didn't expect the exact same complaints, only with more vigor as their actions could easily be interpreted as an admission of wrong doing in the past.
-
Christian Graus wrote:
It was done by the Romans principally, and they were doing it well before they started to subvert christianity in the same way. So, it's not Christian in origin at all.
The Romans were adding the pagan religions to their own. "You can worship your old gods. Worship ours too." And most pagans had no issues with that. "Oh, he's a god, cool. No skin off my teeth. Long as I can worship my gods too and they don't get mad I am good." Dammit, it always gets down to the Romans being a-holes doesn't it?
ragnaroknrol wrote:
Dammit, it always gets down to the Romans being a-holes doesn't it?
I'm afraid so :-)
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
-
So they attempted to exploit a legal loop hole to allow the fire department to back a display of religious significance? By moving it a yard over? And they didn't expect the exact same complaints, only with more vigor as their actions could easily be interpreted as an admission of wrong doing in the past.
-
How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.
-
How? Your religion requires you to have public displays? In fact, I am pretty sure using idols is a no no. Isn't there a rule on that? Like maybe #2? In a world dominated by your religious symbols perverted from another religion's celebrations you are complaining? Really think pine trees are a Christian thing? How about eggs for easter? Christians have forced a lot of people to hide their religious symbols over the years. Someone asks them to do the same and they get all nuts. They also always say it is an attack on Christmas when this happens. As if celebrating xmas was not done during Yule to subvert the pagan celebrations and convert Pagans. Cry me a river.
-
It's not illegal.. the Mayor and Fire Cheif are spinless. No one local has supported them. Just the out of town people .. do you have a clue how far WI is from SC?
This has exactly what to do with what I said? Their actions make it look like they're attempting to circumvent something, which makes them appear guilty, which if piled on with blind support for something that the department itself should have nothing to do with(if individuals want to, fine, not the department, there needs to be a distinction there), would make them look like a bunch of idiots attempting to dance around a long standing issue. But they didn't, they most likely realized what it looked like, and continuing with it would have caused them to be the next 'backwater hicks refuse to take down nativity scene' on cnn, along with details on the historic 'conflict' over the scene. Had they done it on their own property, odds are no one would have gotten that far with the complaints, they have no one but themselves to blame. Despite having it on department grounds being at the very least a conflict of public interest, that at least doesn't look like a stupid move to side step something.
-
They had displayed it for years. One person complained every year, so this year they moved it off public property... That person brought someone from out of state into the issue. Legally it WAS their right, but the city caved in.
fred_ wrote:
They had displayed it for years
So violating a law for years and getting away with it makes it right? Yeah, I guess that's the right wing way of thinking.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
-
This has exactly what to do with what I said? Their actions make it look like they're attempting to circumvent something, which makes them appear guilty, which if piled on with blind support for something that the department itself should have nothing to do with(if individuals want to, fine, not the department, there needs to be a distinction there), would make them look like a bunch of idiots attempting to dance around a long standing issue. But they didn't, they most likely realized what it looked like, and continuing with it would have caused them to be the next 'backwater hicks refuse to take down nativity scene' on cnn, along with details on the historic 'conflict' over the scene. Had they done it on their own property, odds are no one would have gotten that far with the complaints, they have no one but themselves to blame. Despite having it on department grounds being at the very least a conflict of public interest, that at least doesn't look like a stupid move to side step something.
-
fred_ wrote:
They had displayed it for years
So violating a law for years and getting away with it makes it right? Yeah, I guess that's the right wing way of thinking.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
-
NO that is NOT what you said. What they did was exercise their LEGAL CONSTITUTIONAL rights. And the City stepped on their toes and fail to defend them. No loop holes involved.