How Blair dropped himself in it re the Gulf war inquiry. [modified]
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So he says that given what he knows now, that there are no WMD in Iraq, he would still have gone to war. So to him regime change, an illegal act, is legal. He is therefore guity and a war criminal by his own admission.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Thursday, February 4, 2010 11:02 AM
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So he says that given what he knows now, that there are no WMD in Iraq, he would still have gone to war. So to him regime change, an illegal act, is legal. He is therefore guity and a war criminal by his own admission.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Thursday, February 4, 2010 11:02 AM
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So he says that given what he knows now, that there are no WMD in Iraq, he would still have gone to war. So to him regime change, an illegal act, is legal. He is therefore guity and a war criminal by his own admission.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Thursday, February 4, 2010 11:02 AM
I believe that one of the special investigators at the Hague has started to compile information.
"WPF has many lovers. It's a veritable porn star!" - Josh Smith
As Braveheart once said, "You can take our freedom but you'll never take our Hobnobs!" - Martin Hughes.
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So he says that given what he knows now, that there are no WMD in Iraq, he would still have gone to war. So to him regime change, an illegal act, is legal. He is therefore guity and a war criminal by his own admission.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Thursday, February 4, 2010 11:02 AM
Whatever the rights and wrongs I find it incomprehensible that we had a public inquiry into the war. What will it achieve other than to waste tax payers money? No charges will be brought, no one will be punished for anything (if they even deserve to be). AS a personal aside they weer right to go in. However, if that was right that begs the question: why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators? Maybe thsi should be moved to the soapbox before it degenarates (I mean, its not gw, after all).
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Whatever the rights and wrongs I find it incomprehensible that we had a public inquiry into the war. What will it achieve other than to waste tax payers money? No charges will be brought, no one will be punished for anything (if they even deserve to be). AS a personal aside they weer right to go in. However, if that was right that begs the question: why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators? Maybe thsi should be moved to the soapbox before it degenarates (I mean, its not gw, after all).
digital man wrote:
AS a personal aside they weer right to go in.
Just wondering, why do you think that?
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh
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Whatever the rights and wrongs I find it incomprehensible that we had a public inquiry into the war. What will it achieve other than to waste tax payers money? No charges will be brought, no one will be punished for anything (if they even deserve to be). AS a personal aside they weer right to go in. However, if that was right that begs the question: why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators? Maybe thsi should be moved to the soapbox before it degenarates (I mean, its not gw, after all).
digital man wrote:
However, if that was right that begs the question: why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators?
Probably because other dictators don't have the vast reserves of oil that Iraq does. Look at what happened in Burma, a people in open revolution who needed assistance and what did we do? Bugger all.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh
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Whatever the rights and wrongs I find it incomprehensible that we had a public inquiry into the war. What will it achieve other than to waste tax payers money? No charges will be brought, no one will be punished for anything (if they even deserve to be). AS a personal aside they weer right to go in. However, if that was right that begs the question: why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators? Maybe thsi should be moved to the soapbox before it degenarates (I mean, its not gw, after all).
In these times of hardship I think it's great that this enquiry is doing so much to support the Whitewash manufacturing industry.
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digital man wrote:
AS a personal aside they weer right to go in.
Just wondering, why do you think that?
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh
The same reason we should get rid of all dictators who are persecuting their own people and threatening others. Sadly, not practical and not going to happen otherwise Mugabe and ImInADinnerJacket, amongst others, would already be dead. The decision then, presumably, becomes, if we do take this person/government out, what's in it for us? Ah, the practicalities of life: no one ever said it was fair. Besides, the war bit is easy. It's all the shit afterwards that causes the real problems. If, once Iraq had been liberated, it would have been possible to quickly turn it over to the Iraqis we'd all be applauding now. It'll be interesting to see what happens in Iran. I wonder if we'll wait till he gets usuable nuclear weapons...
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The same reason we should get rid of all dictators who are persecuting their own people and threatening others. Sadly, not practical and not going to happen otherwise Mugabe and ImInADinnerJacket, amongst others, would already be dead. The decision then, presumably, becomes, if we do take this person/government out, what's in it for us? Ah, the practicalities of life: no one ever said it was fair. Besides, the war bit is easy. It's all the shit afterwards that causes the real problems. If, once Iraq had been liberated, it would have been possible to quickly turn it over to the Iraqis we'd all be applauding now. It'll be interesting to see what happens in Iran. I wonder if we'll wait till he gets usuable nuclear weapons...
digital man wrote:
If, once Iraq had been liberated, it would have been possible to quickly turn it over to the Iraqis we'd all be applauding now.
Yeah. I mean, I just find their lack of thought or care to the whole thing mind boggling. Even I could see from my non-military background that walking into a country, waging a war, and 'liberating' a people cannot be done overnight. I said from the start to friends and co-workers that invading Iraq would cause a power vacuum and civil unrest. We'll get bored, it'll cost too much money and we'll f**k off when the oil runs out. Leaving it in a sh*t state, ripe for the next batch of western hating rulers. You can't just waltz into a country and 'install' democracy, this isn't Windows 7 here, it's Vista.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh
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digital man wrote:
However, if that was right that begs the question: why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators?
Probably because other dictators don't have the vast reserves of oil that Iraq does. Look at what happened in Burma, a people in open revolution who needed assistance and what did we do? Bugger all.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh
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So he says that given what he knows now, that there are no WMD in Iraq, he would still have gone to war. So to him regime change, an illegal act, is legal. He is therefore guity and a war criminal by his own admission.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
modified on Thursday, February 4, 2010 11:02 AM
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Probably better suited for the Soapbox but...
fat_boy wrote:
He is therefore guity and a war criminal by his own admission.
No, he admitted that if his prior knowledge had been different he would have become a war criminal. Big difference.
But it shows the workings of his mind. He thinks regime change is valid. How do we know that this wasnt his real reason and all the WMD stuff a smoke screen? We dont, but we know his mindset, and it is that of a war criminal.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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Blair might be many things, but I'm yet to be convinced that a charge of being a "war criminal" is appropriate. However, a charge of misleading Parliament is more provable, but might not be satisfying to the public at large.
Richard A. Abbott wrote: However, a charge of misleading Parliament is more provable, weird, quote isn't working... Anyway, the trick here is what he misled them into and why. Plenty of stuff was brought up showing W had Blair in his back pocket and W had his mind set on an invasion. Everyone pointing out the actual villain we were seeking was no where near Iraq didn't discourage him at all.
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Whatever the rights and wrongs I find it incomprehensible that we had a public inquiry into the war. What will it achieve other than to waste tax payers money? No charges will be brought, no one will be punished for anything (if they even deserve to be). AS a personal aside they weer right to go in. However, if that was right that begs the question: why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators? Maybe thsi should be moved to the soapbox before it degenarates (I mean, its not gw, after all).
digital man wrote:
why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators?
Those poor people have no oil. Duh.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote: However, a charge of misleading Parliament is more provable, weird, quote isn't working... Anyway, the trick here is what he misled them into and why. Plenty of stuff was brought up showing W had Blair in his back pocket and W had his mind set on an invasion. Everyone pointing out the actual villain we were seeking was no where near Iraq didn't discourage him at all.
ragnaroknrol wrote:
weird, quote isn't working...
It's a new feature. Took me a while, too. If you have 'do not interpret HTML tags' checked, then it quotes in a non HTML format. PITA for this forum, as I often find my quotes go in the wrong place, so I need to turn it off, turn it on to move them, then turn it off again.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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digital man wrote:
why have they not taken out Mugabe and other dictators?
Those poor people have no oil. Duh.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Richard A. Abbott wrote: However, a charge of misleading Parliament is more provable, weird, quote isn't working... Anyway, the trick here is what he misled them into and why. Plenty of stuff was brought up showing W had Blair in his back pocket and W had his mind set on an invasion. Everyone pointing out the actual villain we were seeking was no where near Iraq didn't discourage him at all.
Does not matter if Blair was or was not in Bush's back pocket. Deliberate lying to Parliament is a serious charge. As Blair is no longer a Member of Parliament, normal sanctions upon guilt is not applicable and I am pretty sure that because of parliamentary privileges (immunity), civil and/or criminal prosecutions cannot occur. So, in terms of his Parliamentary activities are concerned, it looks as though Blair has got away with it, but the same rules are not applicable outside of that Westminster Parliament building.
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digital man wrote:
If, once Iraq had been liberated, it would have been possible to quickly turn it over to the Iraqis we'd all be applauding now.
Yeah. I mean, I just find their lack of thought or care to the whole thing mind boggling. Even I could see from my non-military background that walking into a country, waging a war, and 'liberating' a people cannot be done overnight. I said from the start to friends and co-workers that invading Iraq would cause a power vacuum and civil unrest. We'll get bored, it'll cost too much money and we'll f**k off when the oil runs out. Leaving it in a sh*t state, ripe for the next batch of western hating rulers. You can't just waltz into a country and 'install' democracy, this isn't Windows 7 here, it's Vista.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh
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digital man wrote:
If, once Iraq had been liberated, it would have been possible to quickly turn it over to the Iraqis we'd all be applauding now.
Yeah. I mean, I just find their lack of thought or care to the whole thing mind boggling. Even I could see from my non-military background that walking into a country, waging a war, and 'liberating' a people cannot be done overnight. I said from the start to friends and co-workers that invading Iraq would cause a power vacuum and civil unrest. We'll get bored, it'll cost too much money and we'll f**k off when the oil runs out. Leaving it in a sh*t state, ripe for the next batch of western hating rulers. You can't just waltz into a country and 'install' democracy, this isn't Windows 7 here, it's Vista.
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh
I dont know if you are aware but the West created Iraq in 1919 after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. (Lawrence of Arabia stuff). It was created out of three regions. Basra, Kirkuk and Baghdad. Three areas, three tribes, three religions. And todays fault lines. Tell me why, since we created the place, should we not let it revert to three regions, saving themselves decades of civil unrest. Lets do it now, put up the fences, then pull out. As for your Win7 Vista comment, very good.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
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I dont know if you are aware but the West created Iraq in 1919 after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. (Lawrence of Arabia stuff). It was created out of three regions. Basra, Kirkuk and Baghdad. Three areas, three tribes, three religions. And todays fault lines. Tell me why, since we created the place, should we not let it revert to three regions, saving themselves decades of civil unrest. Lets do it now, put up the fences, then pull out. As for your Win7 Vista comment, very good.
Morality is indistinguishable from social proscription
fat_boy wrote:
Tell me why, since we created the place, should we not let it revert to three regions, saving themselves decades of civil unrest. Lets do it now, put up the fences, then pull out.
Would that be your option for Israel as well? ;)
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough" ~ Albert Einstein "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur." ~ Paul Neal "Red" Adair Now reading: 'The Third Reich', by Michael Burleigh