Milton Friedman PBS Free to Choose 1980 Vol 1 of 10 Power of the Market [modified]
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Christian Graus wrote:
The people who lived in slums, took what work they could, and lived in poverty, how did capitalism provide them with opportunity ?
This is an early stage of economic development. Every economy that is naturally developed went through this stage. Government intervention however will inevitably deteriorate highly developed economies back to this stage, and inhibit development to a higher stage.
Christian Graus wrote:
Companies like Walmart today hire people as casual labour, hire more than they need, and create a situation where workers fight each other for hours so they have money, thus stopping any sort of collective union type movement, and they obviously allow Walmart to define all their workers as casual and therefore deny them any sort of paid leave. This benefits Walmart. How does it benefit the workers ?
Walmart needs the socialist governments of the United States and China to do business the way they do. Most employess of Walmart must collect government assistance to survive, foodstamps, medicaid, WIC, and Section 8 housing. Over in China, the communist government rigs the economy for ripe exploitation by select groups of people.
Christian Graus wrote:
By this definition, there never has been, and never will be, any form of socialism in any democratic country.
You say this but it obviously isn't true. You are somewhat correct in that socialism has never been successful. As we see in socialist America, the once great capitalist nation that the world owes its success is now nothing but a deteriorated receivership.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Government intervention however will inevitably deteriorate highly developed economies back to this stage, and inhibit development to a higher stage.
Rubbish. Government intervention is what stopped the meat packers both exploiting workers, and selling foodstuff that were not what they claimed, or were in fact inedible.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Walmart needs the socialist governments of the United States and China to do business the way they do.
Please repost your definition of socialism and explain how they USA conforms to it. It plainly does not.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Most employess of Walmart must collect government assistance to survive, foodstamps, medicaid, WIC, and Section 8 housing.
The workers in 'The Jungle' did not have those options. This did not raise wages, it simply left them to die in poverty. That is the product of 'pure' capitalism. Walmart continues to follow that model in every way it is able to, and it's capitalism, not socialism, that causes your government to allow it.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
As we see in socialist America, the once great capitalist nation that the world owes its success is now nothing but a deteriorated receivership.
This is hyperbole. It is the opposite of you taking the definition you gave and explaining how it fits the USA in any way. Saying the USA is socialist over and over will not make it true.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Government intervention however will inevitably deteriorate highly developed economies back to this stage, and inhibit development to a higher stage.
Rubbish. Government intervention is what stopped the meat packers both exploiting workers, and selling foodstuff that were not what they claimed, or were in fact inedible.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Walmart needs the socialist governments of the United States and China to do business the way they do.
Please repost your definition of socialism and explain how they USA conforms to it. It plainly does not.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Most employess of Walmart must collect government assistance to survive, foodstamps, medicaid, WIC, and Section 8 housing.
The workers in 'The Jungle' did not have those options. This did not raise wages, it simply left them to die in poverty. That is the product of 'pure' capitalism. Walmart continues to follow that model in every way it is able to, and it's capitalism, not socialism, that causes your government to allow it.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
As we see in socialist America, the once great capitalist nation that the world owes its success is now nothing but a deteriorated receivership.
This is hyperbole. It is the opposite of you taking the definition you gave and explaining how it fits the USA in any way. Saying the USA is socialist over and over will not make it true.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
selling foodstuff that were not what they claimed, or were in fact inedible.
I never said government is not needed. It is obviously illegal to poison people or to defraud no matter how the economic system operates.
Christian Graus wrote:
The workers in 'The Jungle' did not have those options.
We are talking about whats real. 'The Jungle' is a book.
Christian Graus wrote:
That is the product of 'pure' capitalism. Walmart continues to follow that model in every way it is able to, and it's capitalism, not socialism, that causes your government to allow it.
Walmart is subsidized by the socialist United States and by communist China. Walmart doesn't have to pay their employees fair wages because those employees have most of their expenses payed for by taxpayers. In China, their centrally planned communist system is specifically designed for exploitation of slave labor by the iron fist of communism.
Christian Graus wrote:
Please repost your definition of socialism and explain how they USA conforms to it.
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state With the Federal Reserve in control of the money and credit supply of the worlds most dominate currency, they essentially own and control the entire dollar dependent economy. Additionally with the recent bailouts costing taxpayers trillions of dollars (not to mention previous and already existent subsidies), it does not take a mathematical genius to understand that the government controls the means of production. General Motors is now Government Motors, the government is taking over healthcare (which has already heavy interference by government which is the reason why its broke in the first place), setting up a government controlled taxpayer funded broadband system, public transport, the list goes on and on. 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done This
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America's freedom and prosperity derive from the combination of the idea of human liberty in America's Declaration of Independence with the idea of economic freedom in Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations. Friedman explains how markets and voluntary exchange organize activity and enable people to improve their lives. He also explains the price system. Friedman visits Hong Kong, U.S. and Scotland.[^] You can follow the related video links to find volumes 2 through 10. This PBS series looks at why socialism and communism never work, and why capitalism is the only workable system. Note that we are living in a Keynesian socialist society today and so don't get all Micheal Moore and say that capitalism is what we have today. Halfway through a serious debate between Friedman and many socialists take place.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
modified on Saturday, March 13, 2010 7:36 PM
Monetarists believed that to control inflation you needed to control the money supply. Mrs Thatcher bought into this, and reduced the government deficit - she put up taxes, and cut government spending. She also put up interest rates. Hey! Inflation was reduced!!! Alas, so was the demand for goods and services; economic growth also. It took about a year for monetarist policies to plunge Britain into a full scale recession. Unemployment rose to an unheard of (post war WW2) 3m. (BTW: Capitalists had been complaining that Union Rates undermined Britain's ability to compete in world markets. Here is a desperate workforce looking for jobs. So what did the capitalists do? They crated up their factories and moved them abroad, where they could be even more competitive.) Controlling the money supply was more difficult than Monetarism predicted. Growth in the money supply remained high - in spite of rising interest rates and falling demand. Monetarist measures to reduce the money supply merely served to further reduce demand. By rigorously applying Mr Friedman's hypotheses and attempting to meet his money supply targets, inflation was, indeed, reduced, but at the cost of recession and devastating unemployment (highest since the Great Depression). Mr Friedman's policies were responsible for the rioting across Britain in 1981. (Which, ironically, had to be assuaged by socialist measures.) Mr Friedman is, alas, just another Economics academic whose little models cannot stand the test of reality.
Bob Emmett CSS: I don't intend to be a technical writing, I intend to be a software engineer.
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Christian Graus wrote:
selling foodstuff that were not what they claimed, or were in fact inedible.
I never said government is not needed. It is obviously illegal to poison people or to defraud no matter how the economic system operates.
Christian Graus wrote:
The workers in 'The Jungle' did not have those options.
We are talking about whats real. 'The Jungle' is a book.
Christian Graus wrote:
That is the product of 'pure' capitalism. Walmart continues to follow that model in every way it is able to, and it's capitalism, not socialism, that causes your government to allow it.
Walmart is subsidized by the socialist United States and by communist China. Walmart doesn't have to pay their employees fair wages because those employees have most of their expenses payed for by taxpayers. In China, their centrally planned communist system is specifically designed for exploitation of slave labor by the iron fist of communism.
Christian Graus wrote:
Please repost your definition of socialism and explain how they USA conforms to it.
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state With the Federal Reserve in control of the money and credit supply of the worlds most dominate currency, they essentially own and control the entire dollar dependent economy. Additionally with the recent bailouts costing taxpayers trillions of dollars (not to mention previous and already existent subsidies), it does not take a mathematical genius to understand that the government controls the means of production. General Motors is now Government Motors, the government is taking over healthcare (which has already heavy interference by government which is the reason why its broke in the first place), setting up a government controlled taxpayer funded broadband system, public transport, the list goes on and on. 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done This
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I never said government is not needed. It is obviously illegal to poison people or to defraud no matter how the economic system operates.
Sure - but, the point is, the definition of 'defraud' depends on if you accept government intervention, or if you allow for unskilled workers to be treated however a company wants to treat them. The company acts in it's own interest, government acts in the interest of society as a whole ( or at least, it should ). When government does this, when it hampers the ability of a company to do whatever it wants, this is an element of socialism. The book 'The Jungle' ends with it's main protagonist finding out about socialism, and how it will lead to a utopia. I found the tail end of the book amusing, but I can certainly understand how the people who lived under pure capitalism could believe that pure socialism would be a paradise. The version that was presented sounded nightmarish to me, it involved things like doing away with 'useless' trades, like jewellers. It's promise was a subsistence lifestyle. The author obviously thought this sounded good, and to people who were starving to death, and to whom the idea of ever owning a diamond ring was nothing more than a fantasy, I bet it did.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
We are talking about whats real. 'The Jungle' is a book.
It is a work of fiction, however, it was written in reflection of the conditions that existed. It resulted not in workplace reform, as the author hoped, but in an investigation of the conditions that food was created in, and the creation of food safety laws. The author hoped to shock people with how workers were being treated, and instead shocked them mostly with what was in their food.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Walmart is subsidized by the socialist United States and by communist China.
I'm sorry, you're failing to discuss now. You're just repeating the same allegations.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Walmart doesn't have to pay their employees fair wages because those employees have most of their expenses payed for by taxpayers
I repeat - conditions have existed where workers are not paid fair wages in the past, the book 'The Jungle', while essentially fiction in the characters it presents, was written to represent the actual working conditions that exis
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Christian Graus wrote:
selling foodstuff that were not what they claimed, or were in fact inedible.
I never said government is not needed. It is obviously illegal to poison people or to defraud no matter how the economic system operates.
Christian Graus wrote:
The workers in 'The Jungle' did not have those options.
We are talking about whats real. 'The Jungle' is a book.
Christian Graus wrote:
That is the product of 'pure' capitalism. Walmart continues to follow that model in every way it is able to, and it's capitalism, not socialism, that causes your government to allow it.
Walmart is subsidized by the socialist United States and by communist China. Walmart doesn't have to pay their employees fair wages because those employees have most of their expenses payed for by taxpayers. In China, their centrally planned communist system is specifically designed for exploitation of slave labor by the iron fist of communism.
Christian Graus wrote:
Please repost your definition of socialism and explain how they USA conforms to it.
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state With the Federal Reserve in control of the money and credit supply of the worlds most dominate currency, they essentially own and control the entire dollar dependent economy. Additionally with the recent bailouts costing taxpayers trillions of dollars (not to mention previous and already existent subsidies), it does not take a mathematical genius to understand that the government controls the means of production. General Motors is now Government Motors, the government is taking over healthcare (which has already heavy interference by government which is the reason why its broke in the first place), setting up a government controlled taxpayer funded broadband system, public transport, the list goes on and on. 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done This
Wow, socialist US, wow, then my home country is far beyond socialism, checking my tires pressure is free in my home country, I have to pay 75 cents here to do so, health care is free also in my home country, I have to pay for insurance here, universities are free also, you have to pay thousands of dollars in the US to get a degree; and the list can continue, and still I feel that my home country is very capitalist(I'm from Mexico btw), did you read the news? the new richest man of the world is from Mexico and there's more than one person in that list from Mexico. So having free health care, free universities, free air checks for your tires, subsized energy, gasoline, heating, unemployment help from the gov't, help for old people, single moms, etc makes my home country socialist? or a country that has a gov't that cares for its citizens? and still the gov't allows the banks to rip us apart with high interest rates... I call that capitalism!!! (and other things too ;P ), having the richest man in the world isn't capitalism?, otherwise how did he do all his money in a socialist country? Having education is a right not a privilege, having health care is a right not a privilege, these things that you call socialism are rights for every person, not only for the ones that can afford it and has to be a policy in every gov't of the world, many countries have already taking steps to provide free education and health care, to name a few, Canada, France, UK, and I don't see where's the socialism in those countries. I cannot deny that life in the US is more comfortable, the infrastructure is better, higher education is better (and very expensive), yes and that I'm here with a work visa to make money, capitalism baby!!! SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! but also, you need to ask why I got a visa and the job and not an american? I can tell you that is because your socialist country only provides a degree to the ones that can afford it, so every day less and less americans have the education required to have a decent and specialized job in this socialist country and world. I manage a team of 6 americans, how weird is that?, a mexican telling 6 americans what to do and how to do it in their own home country!!!, and I'm the only one with an engineering degree in the team. I know for a fact, that universities in this state are packed with foreign students, that are from socialist countries (as I understand they are supposed to be according to your theories), a socialist capable of affording expensive education, weird. Your rig
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, as a whole, that is true.
Glad you agree, NOT!
Christian Graus wrote:
However, for a system to work, it does not need to serve the needs of all, or even most of it's members.
The system serves nobody. People take productive time to combine their skills and labor to resources that someone is willing to trade his or her productive time for. If the market is not demanding your supply then their is no benefit. Their are limitless opportunities in a true free-market, so as long as you take advantage of those opportunities you will profit, and as a whole the system will develop benefiting all.
Christian Graus wrote:
That's why there are elements of socialism in every capitalistic country I can think of.
Let's define socialism. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism[^] 1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods 2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state 3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done Now that I have corrected your misuse of th4e word socialism, you now understand that socialism has led to exploitation of workers, social disorder, social and economic deterioration, corruption, and tyranny.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Their are limitless opportunities in a true free-market, so as long as you take advantage of those opportunities you will profit
Unless you're counting the opportunity to take someone else's stuff and sell it for capital to start your business this is so full of crap it's funny. Or are you blaming your own employment on that horrible socialist system that surrounds you?
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Their are limitless opportunities in a true free-market, so as long as you take advantage of those opportunities you will profit
Unless you're counting the opportunity to take someone else's stuff and sell it for capital to start your business this is so full of crap it's funny. Or are you blaming your own employment on that horrible socialist system that surrounds you?
Horrible socialist system??? he had the chance to get a degree in one of the best universities of the world, if he or his family were able to afford it, otherwise, he only has a HS diploma (HS is free and they don't complain about it), a HS diploma gives him a 35K/year job, maybe 45K, but no more than that... or maybe he lost a limb because he needed surgery and he wasn't able to afford it in one of the best hospitals in the world with the best doctors, so now it's the socialist system of the US the one he's blaming
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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Wow, socialist US, wow, then my home country is far beyond socialism, checking my tires pressure is free in my home country, I have to pay 75 cents here to do so, health care is free also in my home country, I have to pay for insurance here, universities are free also, you have to pay thousands of dollars in the US to get a degree; and the list can continue, and still I feel that my home country is very capitalist(I'm from Mexico btw), did you read the news? the new richest man of the world is from Mexico and there's more than one person in that list from Mexico. So having free health care, free universities, free air checks for your tires, subsized energy, gasoline, heating, unemployment help from the gov't, help for old people, single moms, etc makes my home country socialist? or a country that has a gov't that cares for its citizens? and still the gov't allows the banks to rip us apart with high interest rates... I call that capitalism!!! (and other things too ;P ), having the richest man in the world isn't capitalism?, otherwise how did he do all his money in a socialist country? Having education is a right not a privilege, having health care is a right not a privilege, these things that you call socialism are rights for every person, not only for the ones that can afford it and has to be a policy in every gov't of the world, many countries have already taking steps to provide free education and health care, to name a few, Canada, France, UK, and I don't see where's the socialism in those countries. I cannot deny that life in the US is more comfortable, the infrastructure is better, higher education is better (and very expensive), yes and that I'm here with a work visa to make money, capitalism baby!!! SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! but also, you need to ask why I got a visa and the job and not an american? I can tell you that is because your socialist country only provides a degree to the ones that can afford it, so every day less and less americans have the education required to have a decent and specialized job in this socialist country and world. I manage a team of 6 americans, how weird is that?, a mexican telling 6 americans what to do and how to do it in their own home country!!!, and I'm the only one with an engineering degree in the team. I know for a fact, that universities in this state are packed with foreign students, that are from socialist countries (as I understand they are supposed to be according to your theories), a socialist capable of affording expensive education, weird. Your rig
Nice sig
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Horrible socialist system??? he had the chance to get a degree in one of the best universities of the world, if he or his family were able to afford it, otherwise, he only has a HS diploma (HS is free and they don't complain about it), a HS diploma gives him a 35K/year job, maybe 45K, but no more than that... or maybe he lost a limb because he needed surgery and he wasn't able to afford it in one of the best hospitals in the world with the best doctors, so now it's the socialist system of the US the one he's blaming
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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See, the horrors of socialism! And it's rather sad when even I'm not sure if I'm being sarcastic anymore. But I have seen people blame someone not being able to get an education on socialism.
I can see the sarcasm :) but it's just the wrong idea of socialism and CSS (and maybe others) just don't see beyond their noses and just want understand what they want to understand and believe, like CG said, every democracy and every capitalist country must have some sort of socialism to control things, having the gov't taking care of stuff, create rules for the game, otherwise those bad and greedy companies will just make us go back to slavery, if we are not already there, . It's not bad to have socialized education, it's not bad to have socialized health care, people in the US don't understand the concept, but how, a country like the US, that spends trillions in wars can sustain a free health care and free education??, and that's what people is afraid of in the US, an increasing debt that gets bigger and bigger every day to keep wars going, a debt that is owned by China and other countries, people already paying large sums of their paychecks in taxes, Getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, close some bases you have around the world, and you will see how much money you will save and still be the number one military power in the world, enough money to pay the debt in the next 10 to 15 years and if not pay it at least reduce it, have free health care and free education that will not make the gov't increase the taxes. So far 1.05 trillion have been allocated just for Iraq, 172 billion for Afghanistan... 1.22 trillion dollars in wars, 12.5 trillion is the debt and increasing, using CSS theory of gold, so far, in human history, only 161,000 tons of gold have been produced, equivalent to less than 6 trillion USD, in human history!!, 5000+ years of recorded history, not enough to pay current US debt, and that gold is not in the US or owned by the US, its owned by other countries like India, China, UK, here's the article ---> Gold[^] the same happens with silver, not enough, and here is an interesting clock that calculates the debt live ---> US Debt[^] So they get the idea that socialized services are bad, when they don't look behind their backs and see how many socialized things they have already in the US, heck, health care is socialized, they receive funds from the gov't!!! education up to high school is free!!! universities receive funds from the gov't too!!!,
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Nice sig
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I can see the sarcasm :) but it's just the wrong idea of socialism and CSS (and maybe others) just don't see beyond their noses and just want understand what they want to understand and believe, like CG said, every democracy and every capitalist country must have some sort of socialism to control things, having the gov't taking care of stuff, create rules for the game, otherwise those bad and greedy companies will just make us go back to slavery, if we are not already there, . It's not bad to have socialized education, it's not bad to have socialized health care, people in the US don't understand the concept, but how, a country like the US, that spends trillions in wars can sustain a free health care and free education??, and that's what people is afraid of in the US, an increasing debt that gets bigger and bigger every day to keep wars going, a debt that is owned by China and other countries, people already paying large sums of their paychecks in taxes, Getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan, close some bases you have around the world, and you will see how much money you will save and still be the number one military power in the world, enough money to pay the debt in the next 10 to 15 years and if not pay it at least reduce it, have free health care and free education that will not make the gov't increase the taxes. So far 1.05 trillion have been allocated just for Iraq, 172 billion for Afghanistan... 1.22 trillion dollars in wars, 12.5 trillion is the debt and increasing, using CSS theory of gold, so far, in human history, only 161,000 tons of gold have been produced, equivalent to less than 6 trillion USD, in human history!!, 5000+ years of recorded history, not enough to pay current US debt, and that gold is not in the US or owned by the US, its owned by other countries like India, China, UK, here's the article ---> Gold[^] the same happens with silver, not enough, and here is an interesting clock that calculates the debt live ---> US Debt[^] So they get the idea that socialized services are bad, when they don't look behind their backs and see how many socialized things they have already in the US, heck, health care is socialized, they receive funds from the gov't!!! education up to high school is free!!! universities receive funds from the gov't too!!!,
Gonzoox wrote:
but how, a country like the US, that spends trillions in wars can sustain a free health care and free education??
I've suggested that we should start pillaging doctors and teachers. Generally after I suggest we stop trying to police the world, cut the massive military bloat loose, and generally stop investing more money in a military than any other three nations in the world. Oddly enough the folks we're talking about don't like either one. But then, if the people we're talking about could find their own asses with both hands and a search crew they may actually be able to understand that they've benefited from the fact that this country does have socialist policies, and that no matter how afraid of them they may think they are, they use them on a daily basis. Oh, and if you really want to piss them off, get some of the statistics on how a public option for health insurance would actually allow for better care, lower premiums and better administration simply by the fact that they government isn't in it for profit. Toss in the far wider risk pool than any single provider could claim and then the drains even from those with serious conditions become nearly marginal. It's quite difficult to argue with statistics when the basic logic behind them is actually sound, so they resort to "Socialism is evil". It's a lot easier. That, or they argue that they don't want their health care run by the DMV. Having dealt with both health insurers and the DMV, I'll take the DMV.
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Gonzoox wrote:
but how, a country like the US, that spends trillions in wars can sustain a free health care and free education??
I've suggested that we should start pillaging doctors and teachers. Generally after I suggest we stop trying to police the world, cut the massive military bloat loose, and generally stop investing more money in a military than any other three nations in the world. Oddly enough the folks we're talking about don't like either one. But then, if the people we're talking about could find their own asses with both hands and a search crew they may actually be able to understand that they've benefited from the fact that this country does have socialist policies, and that no matter how afraid of them they may think they are, they use them on a daily basis. Oh, and if you really want to piss them off, get some of the statistics on how a public option for health insurance would actually allow for better care, lower premiums and better administration simply by the fact that they government isn't in it for profit. Toss in the far wider risk pool than any single provider could claim and then the drains even from those with serious conditions become nearly marginal. It's quite difficult to argue with statistics when the basic logic behind them is actually sound, so they resort to "Socialism is evil". It's a lot easier. That, or they argue that they don't want their health care run by the DMV. Having dealt with both health insurers and the DMV, I'll take the DMV.
Distind wrote:
I'll take the DMV.
I won't, they made sure to give me hell when I tried to get my driver's license, I got to the country, I went to the SS office to get my SSN, got a letter saying that it would take around 3 weeks, ok, I have a letter saying that I will get it, so I go to the DMV, ask for a license, they ask me for an ID, showed my passport and visa, so good so far, then asked me for the SSN, I showed the lady my letter, she said no, she wanted the number, so I told her that the law says that I can get the license with the documents that show my legal stay in the country, she didn't care, so I had to wait 3 weeks 'til I got the SSN. I went again, ID, handed passport and visa, SSN, ha, in your face lady!!! here it is!!!, Proof of insurance, erm, I'm not paying the insurance yet until I can pick up my car, to pick up my car I need my license, well, no license until you bring your proof of insurance, so I called the agent, paid the insurance and return the next day, finally, I did all the tests, and was ready to walk out with my license, WRONG!!!! 20 days to get it by mail. So when it finally arrived I was already doing my 3rd payment of the car, second payment of the insurance!!! so no, if that's how the DMV is going to work health I rather fly back to my country :P
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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Distind wrote:
I'll take the DMV.
I won't, they made sure to give me hell when I tried to get my driver's license, I got to the country, I went to the SS office to get my SSN, got a letter saying that it would take around 3 weeks, ok, I have a letter saying that I will get it, so I go to the DMV, ask for a license, they ask me for an ID, showed my passport and visa, so good so far, then asked me for the SSN, I showed the lady my letter, she said no, she wanted the number, so I told her that the law says that I can get the license with the documents that show my legal stay in the country, she didn't care, so I had to wait 3 weeks 'til I got the SSN. I went again, ID, handed passport and visa, SSN, ha, in your face lady!!! here it is!!!, Proof of insurance, erm, I'm not paying the insurance yet until I can pick up my car, to pick up my car I need my license, well, no license until you bring your proof of insurance, so I called the agent, paid the insurance and return the next day, finally, I did all the tests, and was ready to walk out with my license, WRONG!!!! 20 days to get it by mail. So when it finally arrived I was already doing my 3rd payment of the car, second payment of the insurance!!! so no, if that's how the DMV is going to work health I rather fly back to my country :P
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
Gonzoox wrote:
So when it finally arrived I was already doing my 3rd payment of the car, second payment of the insurance!!! so no, if that's how the DMV is going to work health I rather fly back to my country :P
Wait till you have to deal with our health insurance. It's actually worse.