Minimum wage [modified]
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Yes, I have that on DVD, and I think that was one of the best episodes. I have a number of books on the topic as well, on similar themes, often. One in particular had a journalist try to live on minimum wage and had interviews with the people she worked with.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Have you read the book Jennifer Government[^]? Think of a world where corporations have little to no regard for government, and where employees surnames are the companny you work for, here's[^] part of chapter 1. From Chapter 1: “Um...” Hack said. He swallowed. “Isn’t this kind of... illegal?” “He wants to know if it’s illegal,” the John said, amused. “You’re a funny guy, Hack. Yes, it’s illegal, killing people without their consent, that’s very illegal.” Vice-President John said, “But the question is: what does it cost us? Even if we get found out, we burn a few million on legal fees, we get fined a few million more... bottom-line, we’re still way out in front.”
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*grin* even the high end of the minimum wage scale is ludicrous, IMO. And it does not take in to account how rarely people earning this get given regular hours, or sick leave, etc.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
I absolutely agree with you; what's more, with the base level set so low, you can see how it's possible to achieve the ridiculous disparity in income level that has come to typify corporate pay schedules. The truth is, as has been well documented, that the real purchasing power of the average worker has been in decline for 30 years or more. There was a time when a blue-collar, Archie Bunker type could, with a regular 40 hour per week job, have some hope of buying a little home and improving his lot, and that of his offspring, in life. Sadly, that's no longer as true as it was. If at all.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
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Have you read the book Jennifer Government[^]? Think of a world where corporations have little to no regard for government, and where employees surnames are the companny you work for, here's[^] part of chapter 1. From Chapter 1: “Um...” Hack said. He swallowed. “Isn’t this kind of... illegal?” “He wants to know if it’s illegal,” the John said, amused. “You’re a funny guy, Hack. Yes, it’s illegal, killing people without their consent, that’s very illegal.” Vice-President John said, “But the question is: what does it cost us? Even if we get found out, we burn a few million on legal fees, we get fined a few million more... bottom-line, we’re still way out in front.”
I don't read fiction as a rule, but that sounds interesting, I just may Amazon it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I absolutely agree with you; what's more, with the base level set so low, you can see how it's possible to achieve the ridiculous disparity in income level that has come to typify corporate pay schedules. The truth is, as has been well documented, that the real purchasing power of the average worker has been in decline for 30 years or more. There was a time when a blue-collar, Archie Bunker type could, with a regular 40 hour per week job, have some hope of buying a little home and improving his lot, and that of his offspring, in life. Sadly, that's no longer as true as it was. If at all.
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
LunaticFringe wrote:
There was a time when a blue-collar, Archie Bunker type could, with a regular 40 hour per week job, have some hope of buying a little home and improving his lot, and that of his offspring, in life. Sadly, that's no longer as true as it was. If at all.
And the real question is not, is that capitalism or is that socialism, as if all of lifes goods and bads can be so easily defined. The real question is, does that outcome benefit society as a whole, and if not, are we willing to live with it just because we live above it ( presumably, given that this is a site for professional people, CSS being an obvious exception ).
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Actually, for once CSS is speaking from a position of knowledge. If there is anyone on this site who knows about minimum wage, it will be CSS. Those Pizza Deliveries don't pay well. And why is he called Drag on Floor now?
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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dragonflower is an account that's only ever posted in here, generally to me, and has only posted 22 times. I think it's a CSS account, he denies it, I can't be bothered arguing.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I guess the site I found reported the absolute minimum ( which is in Wyoming ), or the Federal minimum ( which I expect is the lower of the two, the states going above, but not below, what the Federal government decides is the allowable minimum ). My point stands, on every level.
dragonflower wrote:
i only have one account.
Which has only ever been used in the soapbox, and only 22 times. I'm sorry if this is true, but given the nature of this forum, the fact it is hidden, and the fact that it's on a site for programmers, what you say does not gel with the tendency some users have to run many accounts.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Which has only ever been used in the soapbox, and only 22 times. I'm sorry if this is true, but given the nature of this forum, the fact it is hidden, and the fact that it's on a site for programmers, what you say does not gel with the tendency some users have to run many accounts.
Gee, you insist on being exactly the same kind of ass Oakman was over her. Funny how neither of you can own up to being wrong.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I can't be bothered arguing
That is the most sensible thing you've said in relation to your issue with him in weeks. For the sake of all that is decent in the world JUST DON'T FUCKING REPLY TO HIM.
Josh Gray wrote:
That is the most sensible thing you've said in relation to your issue with him in weeks. For the sake of all that is decent in the world JUST DON'T f***ing REPLY TO HIM.
And the chances of that happening are slim and none? Probably much closer to none. :laugh:
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Which has only ever been used in the soapbox, and only 22 times. I'm sorry if this is true, but given the nature of this forum, the fact it is hidden, and the fact that it's on a site for programmers, what you say does not gel with the tendency some users have to run many accounts.
Gee, you insist on being exactly the same kind of ass Oakman was over her. Funny how neither of you can own up to being wrong.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
Tim Craig wrote:
Gee, you insist on being exactly the same kind of ass Oakman was over her.
You're saying this is a girl ? I could care less. CSS uses fake accounts at times, and this person may well not be CSS ( I did say that, in fact ), but it's far more logical to assume that an account that just happens to have only ever posted in the soapbox, seems at first glance to have been used to support CSSs views, and has been used very rarely over the space of many years ( and, most important, seems to have understood the rules of the SB from the moment they somehow found it and started posting here ), is CSS. I thought you were a big fan of Occams Razor ? The chances are one of two things: 1 - it's CSS and I'm not falling for it 2 - it's someone who cares so little about this site they post here every few months, despite being fully conversant with the nature of the soapbox and only posting here If it's 1, I win. If it's 2, which is unlikely, then I risk offending someone who doesn't care much about the site anyhow, so there's no major harm done. Either way, I've only politely commented, I've not been abusive, and I've admitted I don't know for sure, I'm just making a common sense assumption.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I can't be bothered arguing
That is the most sensible thing you've said in relation to your issue with him in weeks. For the sake of all that is decent in the world JUST DON'T FUCKING REPLY TO HIM.
Josh Gray wrote:
That is the most sensible thing you've said in relation to your issue with him in weeks.
I've only had an issue with him for days, tho.
Josh Gray wrote:
For the sake of all that is decent in the world JUST DON'T f***ing REPLY TO HIM.
My complaint is that he doesn't reply to discuss the text he copies and pastes. If I did not reply to him at all, I wouldn't have any issue, right ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Josh Gray wrote:
That is the most sensible thing you've said in relation to your issue with him in weeks.
I've only had an issue with him for days, tho.
Josh Gray wrote:
For the sake of all that is decent in the world JUST DON'T f***ing REPLY TO HIM.
My complaint is that he doesn't reply to discuss the text he copies and pastes. If I did not reply to him at all, I wouldn't have any issue, right ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
I've only had an issue with him for days, tho.
aaaaarrrrrggggg. The word is though. And that is bullshit, he's been your nemesis since before the SB was split up.
Christian Graus wrote:
My complaint is that he doesn't reply to discuss the text he copies and pastes. If I did not reply to him at all, I wouldn't have any issue, right ?
Why do you think he does exactly what you ask him not to? why do you think he starts threads calling you names? It's because you rise to the bait every single time. You're supposedly the moderator but he controls your behavior far more than you can his. He's proved that in the last few days. What do you think would happen if you didn't reply to him at all ever again? Personally I like his posts and his crazy behavior. I get to feel good about myself as he reinforces that there are people out there thicker than me and when I feel the desire he's always there to have a go at.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I've only had an issue with him for days, tho.
aaaaarrrrrggggg. The word is though. And that is bullshit, he's been your nemesis since before the SB was split up.
Christian Graus wrote:
My complaint is that he doesn't reply to discuss the text he copies and pastes. If I did not reply to him at all, I wouldn't have any issue, right ?
Why do you think he does exactly what you ask him not to? why do you think he starts threads calling you names? It's because you rise to the bait every single time. You're supposedly the moderator but he controls your behavior far more than you can his. He's proved that in the last few days. What do you think would happen if you didn't reply to him at all ever again? Personally I like his posts and his crazy behavior. I get to feel good about myself as he reinforces that there are people out there thicker than me and when I feel the desire he's always there to have a go at.
Josh Gray wrote:
The word is though.
LOL - I normally hate American spellings/txtspeak. I don't know why that one has resonated with me.
Josh Gray wrote:
And that is bullsh*t, he's been your nemesis since before the SB was split up.
One way or another, but I've only had a specific issue with him this last few days.
Josh Gray wrote:
why do you think he starts threads calling you names? It's because you rise to the bait every single time.
Well, I guess you live in an alternate universe to me. When he started a thread to call me names, I responded rationally and refused to even discuss his accusations, or to delete them to give him any sort of validation for what he did.
Josh Gray wrote:
You're supposedly the moderator but he controls your behavior far more than you can his. He's proved that in the last few days.
Well, no. The point of being a mod, is that there are rules and they are enforced. The fact that police arrest anyone who is drunk and disorderly do not suggest that people who are drunk and disorderly should be ignored. If the same person keeps acting the same way despite getting arrested, that shows they are stupid, but the standards of the community are still upheld. If I were to give up and let him post his drivel without discussing it, then I would show that he was controlling me. As it stands, he controls me only insofar that I've stated the standards by which I moderate, and he's chosen to go against them. Are you saying you'd prefer this forum to be unmoderated ? Are you saying you'd like the whole site moderated, because the same logic applies everywhere that moderation occurs.
Josh Gray wrote:
What do you think would happen if you didn't reply to him at all ever again?
Not much. I make a point of not replying to his posts about me, nowadays, and he tends more often than not to not even respond when I do reply addressing the points he tries to raise.
Josh Gray wrote:
Personally I like his posts and his crazy behavior. I get to feel good about myself as he reinforces that there are people out there thicker than me and when I feel the desire he's always there to have a go at.
Well, the only thing I've been trying to
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Tim Craig wrote:
Gee, you insist on being exactly the same kind of ass Oakman was over her.
You're saying this is a girl ? I could care less. CSS uses fake accounts at times, and this person may well not be CSS ( I did say that, in fact ), but it's far more logical to assume that an account that just happens to have only ever posted in the soapbox, seems at first glance to have been used to support CSSs views, and has been used very rarely over the space of many years ( and, most important, seems to have understood the rules of the SB from the moment they somehow found it and started posting here ), is CSS. I thought you were a big fan of Occams Razor ? The chances are one of two things: 1 - it's CSS and I'm not falling for it 2 - it's someone who cares so little about this site they post here every few months, despite being fully conversant with the nature of the soapbox and only posting here If it's 1, I win. If it's 2, which is unlikely, then I risk offending someone who doesn't care much about the site anyhow, so there's no major harm done. Either way, I've only politely commented, I've not been abusive, and I've admitted I don't know for sure, I'm just making a common sense assumption.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Yes, the great CG can't possibly be wrong. I told Oakman and I'm telling you that I personally know who she is. It's not CSS and it's not me. So go ahead and puff yourself up and play the ass. You should be able to figure out that I'd do nothing to try to help CSS.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
modified on Monday, March 22, 2010 1:00 AM
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Josh Gray wrote:
The word is though.
LOL - I normally hate American spellings/txtspeak. I don't know why that one has resonated with me.
Josh Gray wrote:
And that is bullsh*t, he's been your nemesis since before the SB was split up.
One way or another, but I've only had a specific issue with him this last few days.
Josh Gray wrote:
why do you think he starts threads calling you names? It's because you rise to the bait every single time.
Well, I guess you live in an alternate universe to me. When he started a thread to call me names, I responded rationally and refused to even discuss his accusations, or to delete them to give him any sort of validation for what he did.
Josh Gray wrote:
You're supposedly the moderator but he controls your behavior far more than you can his. He's proved that in the last few days.
Well, no. The point of being a mod, is that there are rules and they are enforced. The fact that police arrest anyone who is drunk and disorderly do not suggest that people who are drunk and disorderly should be ignored. If the same person keeps acting the same way despite getting arrested, that shows they are stupid, but the standards of the community are still upheld. If I were to give up and let him post his drivel without discussing it, then I would show that he was controlling me. As it stands, he controls me only insofar that I've stated the standards by which I moderate, and he's chosen to go against them. Are you saying you'd prefer this forum to be unmoderated ? Are you saying you'd like the whole site moderated, because the same logic applies everywhere that moderation occurs.
Josh Gray wrote:
What do you think would happen if you didn't reply to him at all ever again?
Not much. I make a point of not replying to his posts about me, nowadays, and he tends more often than not to not even respond when I do reply addressing the points he tries to raise.
Josh Gray wrote:
Personally I like his posts and his crazy behavior. I get to feel good about myself as he reinforces that there are people out there thicker than me and when I feel the desire he's always there to have a go at.
Well, the only thing I've been trying to
Christian Graus wrote:
One way or another, but I've only had a specific issue with him this last few days.
So it was nonspecific issues you've had with him before? :laugh:
Christian Graus wrote:
The point of being a mod
The point seems to be to rise to his bait, goad him, and when is suits you goad him further by playing the moderator card. You've agreed for years whenever someone suggests simply shunning him as the way to handle it but 5 minutes later your OCD kicks in and you're right back at him. :doh:
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
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Christian Graus wrote:
One way or another, but I've only had a specific issue with him this last few days.
So it was nonspecific issues you've had with him before? :laugh:
Christian Graus wrote:
The point of being a mod
The point seems to be to rise to his bait, goad him, and when is suits you goad him further by playing the moderator card. You've agreed for years whenever someone suggests simply shunning him as the way to handle it but 5 minutes later your OCD kicks in and you're right back at him. :doh:
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
We've argued in the past, but I haven't felt I had a specific 'issue' with him, no.
Tim Craig wrote:
The point seems to be to rise to his bait, goad him, and when is suits you goad him further by playing the moderator card.
Well, I'm not sure why I'm expecting you to give me a fair go or deal with me rationally, but I use the 'mod card' sparingly, and see that as totally seperate to when I discuss things with him. Why do you think he had no idea I could delete his posts until a few days ago ?
Tim Craig wrote:
You've agreed for years whenever someone suggests simply shunning him as the way to handle it but 5 minutes later your OCD kicks in and you're right back at him.
To be honest, all the more since Oakman started his love in forum, not much happens around here if you just ignore CSS. His retarded views are the catalyst for most discussion around here. I try to start some threads, but not many people tend to respond. It's also been proven that he doesn't go away, no matter how you treat him. So, I'm trying to make him at least use the forum for discussion of his own ideas, which seems reasonable to me. Oakman left because he couldn't just impose his own views on the forum, and that happened mostly because I insisted that mods should ask the community what the standards for moderation should be. I asked someone else earlier and got no reply, if the low standard I'm imposing is not reflective of what people want, I'm happy to let him post whatever he wants. At which point, I'd like my name removed as a mod, because if we have no standards at all, and no expectations, what is moderation for ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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We've argued in the past, but I haven't felt I had a specific 'issue' with him, no.
Tim Craig wrote:
The point seems to be to rise to his bait, goad him, and when is suits you goad him further by playing the moderator card.
Well, I'm not sure why I'm expecting you to give me a fair go or deal with me rationally, but I use the 'mod card' sparingly, and see that as totally seperate to when I discuss things with him. Why do you think he had no idea I could delete his posts until a few days ago ?
Tim Craig wrote:
You've agreed for years whenever someone suggests simply shunning him as the way to handle it but 5 minutes later your OCD kicks in and you're right back at him.
To be honest, all the more since Oakman started his love in forum, not much happens around here if you just ignore CSS. His retarded views are the catalyst for most discussion around here. I try to start some threads, but not many people tend to respond. It's also been proven that he doesn't go away, no matter how you treat him. So, I'm trying to make him at least use the forum for discussion of his own ideas, which seems reasonable to me. Oakman left because he couldn't just impose his own views on the forum, and that happened mostly because I insisted that mods should ask the community what the standards for moderation should be. I asked someone else earlier and got no reply, if the low standard I'm imposing is not reflective of what people want, I'm happy to let him post whatever he wants. At which point, I'd like my name removed as a mod, because if we have no standards at all, and no expectations, what is moderation for ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, I'm not sure why I'm expecting you to give me a fair go or deal with me rationally
Ah yes, when someone disagrees with you, they're unfair and irrational. :laugh:
Christian Graus wrote:
I try to start some threads, but not many people tend to respond.
Maybe that's indicative of the quality of your threads?
Christian Graus wrote:
I'd like my name removed as a mod
Works for me if all you're going to use it for is to goad him into being an even bigger ass. His usual idiocy is enough and his posts quickly fade into history. Now you have him popping the same shit to the top of the list every 5 minutes. :sigh:
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Well, I'm not sure why I'm expecting you to give me a fair go or deal with me rationally
Ah yes, when someone disagrees with you, they're unfair and irrational. :laugh:
Christian Graus wrote:
I try to start some threads, but not many people tend to respond.
Maybe that's indicative of the quality of your threads?
Christian Graus wrote:
I'd like my name removed as a mod
Works for me if all you're going to use it for is to goad him into being an even bigger ass. His usual idiocy is enough and his posts quickly fade into history. Now you have him popping the same shit to the top of the list every 5 minutes. :sigh:
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
Tim Craig wrote:
Ah yes, when someone disagrees with you, they're unfair and irrational.
See what I mean ?
Tim Craig wrote:
Maybe that's indicative of the quality of your threads?
Perhaps. But not many people even do that back here.
Tim Craig wrote:
Works for me if all you're going to use it for is to goad him into being an even bigger ass.
My general behaviour is just me, nothing to do with being a mod. I don't hide behind being a mod to help me try to talk to him. I've been deleting something he's been reposting, not to goad him, but to enforce some standards. If there's no standards, there's no need for a mod.
Tim Craig wrote:
Now you have him popping the same sh*t to the top of the list every 5 minutes.
He actually discussed it today, so I did not delete it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Yes, the great CG can't possibly be wrong. I told Oakman and I'm telling you that I personally know who she is. It's not CSS and it's not me. So go ahead and puff yourself up and play the ass. You should be able to figure out that I'd do nothing to try to help CSS.
You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists.
modified on Monday, March 22, 2010 1:00 AM
Tim Craig wrote:
Yes, the great CG can't possibly be wrong
I didn't say that, not ever.
Tim Craig wrote:
I told Oakman and I'm telling you that I personally know who she is
Well, I never saw you say that. My second guess would be that he/she is someone who posts here b/c of knowing someone who asked them to/showed them the forum.
Tim Craig wrote:
So go ahead and puff yourself up and play the ass.
It seems what ever I do, you assume I am doing that. That's why I try to avoid wasting time on talking to you.
Tim Craig wrote:
You should be able to figure out that I'd do nothing to try to help CSS.
I find it interesting to consider that this proves that going for the most likely/obvious solution obviously doesn't always work. As I said before, I made a value judgemnet that this was either CSS ( seemed likely ) or someone who doesn't care much about the site. I was careful to not be abusive in case I was wrong. If I was, then fair enough. I didn't even know/remember that you and Oakman had discussed it.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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LunaticFringe wrote:
There was a time when a blue-collar, Archie Bunker type could, with a regular 40 hour per week job, have some hope of buying a little home and improving his lot, and that of his offspring, in life. Sadly, that's no longer as true as it was. If at all.
And the real question is not, is that capitalism or is that socialism, as if all of lifes goods and bads can be so easily defined. The real question is, does that outcome benefit society as a whole, and if not, are we willing to live with it just because we live above it ( presumably, given that this is a site for professional people, CSS being an obvious exception ).
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
Personally, by the classic definition, I suppose my own tendency is towards a socialistic democracy along a northern European model. Of course, the very mention of that would be anathema here. Here, in the state with the lowest minimum wage. I've said it before, I'll say it again - the brilliance of the Republican party over the last 30 years lay in convincing the people who were being screwed the worst by their policies that they somehow stood to gain. That whole 'trickle-down' concept, if you will. (That trickle you feel is the piss running down the back of your neck.) [edit] spelling... [/edit]
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Monday, March 22, 2010 2:30 AM
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Personally, by the classic definition, I suppose my own tendency is towards a socialistic democracy along a northern European model. Of course, the very mention of that would be anathema here. Here, in the state with the lowest minimum wage. I've said it before, I'll say it again - the brilliance of the Republican party over the last 30 years lay in convincing the people who were being screwed the worst by their policies that they somehow stood to gain. That whole 'trickle-down' concept, if you will. (That trickle you feel is the piss running down the back of your neck.) [edit] spelling... [/edit]
L u n a t i c F r i n g e
modified on Monday, March 22, 2010 2:30 AM