I have a right to your property...

CaptainSeeSharp

I think the _prez signature is the last step before its law, but whats it matter, he signed an executive order on abortion, he might as well declare himself dictator.

Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]

Dalek Dave

What sort of drugs are you thinking about?

------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave

Dalek Dave

Every Oligarchy gets the President it deserves.

------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave

CaptainSeeSharp

Keith Barrow wrote:

*If* the docs are corrupt, its because the free market hasn't regulated them enough.

I know of people who go to a special doc for prescriptions, paid for by medicare/medicaid, and then they pick up the narcotics at the local pharmacy (for free of course), and then they sell the pills on the street. It is actually very common.

Keith Barrow wrote:

Takeover? AFAIK the reforms just make everyone get insurance, and that the insurance is provided to everybody at a reasonable rate. Ultimately the even insurance companies will benefit.

It does more than that, its thousands of pages thick.

Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]

CaptainSeeSharp

I was just kidding.

Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]

modified on Monday, March 22, 2010 12:21 PM

JHizzle

Keith Barrow wrote:

the NHS is one of the ~3 things the UK got right in the 20th century

Well...there's room for quite alot of improvement. Be nicer if there were a few more staff for instance. Other than that, yeah, NHS rules. I wouldn't be able to support myself without NHS providing my prescriptions.

Ian Shlasko

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

I think the _prez signature is the last step before its law

Incorrect. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35961584/ns/politics-health_care_reform/[^] "A companion package making a series of changes sought by House Democrats to the larger bill, which already passed the Senate, was approved 220-211. The fix-it bill will now go to the Senate, where debate is expected to begin as early as Tuesday. Senate Democrats hope to approve it unchanged and send it directly to Obama, though Republicans intend to attempt parliamentary objections that could change the bill and require it to go back to the House."

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

he signed an executive order on abortion,

From the same article: "The leader of the anti-abortion bloc, Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., didn't get to add stricter anti-abortion language to the underlying bill, but was satisfied by an executive order signed by Obama affirming current law and provisions in the legislation that ban federal funding for abortions except in cases of rape, incest or danger to the life of the mother. " The Republicans tried to push anti-abortion provisions and failed. If I'm reading this right, it just says that Obama won't try to remove the provision in the bill that would keep federal money away from elective abortions. In essence, he's just reassuring them that he WON'T try to change anything... I assume it means he's promising not to use a line-item veto on it. (On a side note, I think the line-item veto is a stupid, stupid thing... Dubya overused it, and I hope Obama will avoid using it at all... Should be an all-or-nothing once it gets to the POTUS's desk)

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)

CaptainSeeSharp

It is two separate bills, they crammed this one through to secure their power grab, they will add more and change parts in a second bill.

Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]

Keith Barrow

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

I know of people who go to a special doc for prescriptions, paid for by medicare/medicaid, and then they pick up the narcotics at the local pharmacy (for free of course), and then they sell the pills on the street. It is actually very common.

Obviously, that is illegal under the current system (or it is there to help addicts?), and would be illegal under the new system. Given one of the raft of packages is to attempt to cut the massive medical bills you get in the US, I doubt the government is likely to take kindly to this sort of activity in the future. This bill could well have the result that this practice is stopped. I don't understand your reasoning, people are abusing the current system, so the new system is bad?????

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

It does more than that, its thousands of pages thick.

So? Most legislation is turgid at best. Most summaries I have looked at say the folling:

Make people get insurance
Where employers do not provide insurance, create a market where insurance can be bought by employees
Tougher insurance regulation, so they don't rip people off
Aubsidise the less well-off
Pay for it by making efficiency gains in the Medicare programme

Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.

CaptainSeeSharp

Keith Barrow wrote:

. I don't understand your reasoning, people are abusing the current system, so the new system is bad?????

This is how it works. It's so easy. You go to the doctor, she will prescribe you drugs, and the taxpayers pick up the tab. The corruption is immense, its just what people do because it is so easy. The government is corrupt, I doubt they really care about people being a parasite on the system, they seem to be trying their hardest to bankrupt the nation and take it over.

Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]

Ian Shlasko

It's pretty complicated. I think what they did was split the bill into two pieces... The original Senate bill, and the House's amendments as a separate bill. But I don't think the first will work without the second, so the Senate can still ruin it by refusing to approve the amendments.

Proud to have finally moved to the A-Ark. Which one are you in?
Author of the Guardians Saga (Sci-Fi/Fantasy novels)

Distind

Ah, here I was figuring they may be the proper way to treat what ever condition it is that you have. Pretty much every drug classified as a narcotic has some effective use as a medical treatment. Well, good luck finding a corrupt doctor willing to risk his career for the pittance you could throw in his direction, you're no Rush Limbaugh. But I can assure you, you're not getting it free. If you'd like to see an actual explaination of what they've passed I could show you, I can also show you how much you're going to have to pay in health coverage in the next couple years if the attn. general's suit gets tossed.

CaptainSeeSharp

You are in denial. The corruption is immense, most people on welfare also make money from medicare/medicaid, and if they don't use all of their food-stamps they sell them. It is the culture of welfare. They can't get a job because they either don't want to or they want to but they are scared of loosing their welfare.

Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]

Keith Barrow

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

This is how it works. It's so easy. You go to the doctor, she will prescribe you drugs, and the taxpayers pick up the tab.

Nope, this I get. The problem I'm having with understanding your argument is the view that, as this is happening under the current system, therefore the new system will be flawed. This means that [uder your logic] the system cannot ever work. I would contend that, if this abuse is happening, then the government is more likely to be aware of the problem and act upon it.

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

The corruption is immense, its just what people do because it is so easy

So therefore the system must be changed. I'm not saying the bill will improve the corruption, I'm just saying that abuses to the current system can't be used as an argument against a replacement system, if the replacement has the power to stop the corruption.

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

doubt they really care about people being a parasite on the system

Your use of the word parasite is telling here. So, presumably you don't beleive people can fall upon hard times through no fault of their own? Also, I'd have to draw the conclusion that people recieving help can become productive members of society.

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

they seem to be trying their hardest to bankrupt the nation and take it over.

These are mutually exclusive goals surely? To what end would the goverment bankrupt itself? That doesn't make sense to me. Government control costs a lot of money, by bankrupting itself, it would reduce it's own capacity to control and increase civil disobediance as people's lives worsened. I'd contend that such a path is actually likely to lead to revolution, not control, as has happened in several places (Germany during the Weimar republic, Tsarist Russian). The only people who benefit from such things are power-hungry extremists, of the type you so despise.

Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.

Keith Barrow

Proof needed. And not just some YouTube video, or apocryphal evidence from the Internet.

Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.

CaptainSeeSharp

This is just my experience, its part of the culture. Everywhere I have worked there has been someone on welfare, typically young, and they get as much as they can from it. Growing up I would encounter people in school who had family who took advantage of the system, and they would sell their pills in school.

Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]

RichardM1

Screw you! :~ What did I do! X|

Opacity, the new Transparency.

Dalek Dave

Allowed people to have a vote on matters they do not understand, for people they wouldn't have in their homes, for a period set in stone, and without a veto if they disagree on policy not declared in a manifesto. Almost the same as the UK, and look what we got :(

------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave

James L Thomson

CaptainSeeSharp wrote:

Everywhere I have worked there has been someone on welfare, typically young, and they get as much as they can from it.

Career fast food workers are not a representative slice of the US population.

jeron1

:laugh: :laugh: