I have a right to your property...
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Every Oligarchy gets the President it deserves.
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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Allowed people to have a vote on matters they do not understand, for people they wouldn't have in their homes, for a period set in stone, and without a veto if they disagree on policy not declared in a manifesto. Almost the same as the UK, and look what we got :(
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
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This is just my experience, its part of the culture. Everywhere I have worked there has been someone on welfare, typically young, and they get as much as they can from it. Growing up I would encounter people in school who had family who took advantage of the system, and they would sell their pills in school.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Everywhere I have worked there has been someone on welfare, typically young, and they get as much as they can from it.
Career fast food workers are not a representative slice of the US population.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Everywhere I have worked there has been someone on welfare, typically young, and they get as much as they can from it.
Career fast food workers are not a representative slice of the US population.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
This is how it works. It's so easy. You go to the doctor, she will prescribe you drugs, and the taxpayers pick up the tab.
Nope, this I get. The problem I'm having with understanding your argument is the view that, as this is happening under the current system, therefore the new system will be flawed. This means that [uder your logic] the system cannot ever work. I would contend that, if this abuse is happening, then the government is more likely to be aware of the problem and act upon it.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
The corruption is immense, its just what people do because it is so easy
So therefore the system must be changed. I'm not saying the bill will improve the corruption, I'm just saying that abuses to the current system can't be used as an argument against a replacement system, if the replacement has the power to stop the corruption.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
doubt they really care about people being a parasite on the system
Your use of the word parasite is telling here. So, presumably you don't beleive people can fall upon hard times through no fault of their own? Also, I'd have to draw the conclusion that people recieving help can become productive members of society.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
they seem to be trying their hardest to bankrupt the nation and take it over.
These are mutually exclusive goals surely? To what end would the goverment bankrupt itself? That doesn't make sense to me. Government control costs a lot of money, by bankrupting itself, it would reduce it's own capacity to control and increase civil disobediance as people's lives worsened. I'd contend that such a path is actually likely to lead to revolution, not control, as has happened in several places (Germany during the Weimar republic, Tsarist Russian). The only people who benefit from such things are power-hungry extremists, of the type you so despise.
Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.
You aren't going to get through to him A = B; B = C; Therefore A = D; That's how he thinks. The fact that any person with insurance can go to the doctor and get a prescription, then go to another one and get the same stuff and feed an addiciton is lost on him. In a capitalist system a person or corporation can game things, which most do when allowed. Take those same people and corporations, put them in a socialist system and they do the same thing. But somehow that is wrong and evil. Don't bother trying to get him to understand that Spock would flip out and kill him for spouting things that are "common sense" to him. Just smile, nod compliantly and wave. It saves time and effort.
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You aren't going to get through to him A = B; B = C; Therefore A = D; That's how he thinks. The fact that any person with insurance can go to the doctor and get a prescription, then go to another one and get the same stuff and feed an addiciton is lost on him. In a capitalist system a person or corporation can game things, which most do when allowed. Take those same people and corporations, put them in a socialist system and they do the same thing. But somehow that is wrong and evil. Don't bother trying to get him to understand that Spock would flip out and kill him for spouting things that are "common sense" to him. Just smile, nod compliantly and wave. It saves time and effort.
I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud, where a person goes to a single doctor, who prescribes narcotics, and then that person goes to the pharmacy to pick up the drugs, afterward that person sells the drugs on the street in a matter of hours and makes a lot of money.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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This is just my experience, its part of the culture. Everywhere I have worked there has been someone on welfare, typically young, and they get as much as they can from it. Growing up I would encounter people in school who had family who took advantage of the system, and they would sell their pills in school.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
Congratulations, you live in middle America. Welcome to why I refuse to consider jobs not near a significant body of water. I'm not quite sure why, but it seems to give people a sense of scope. Or if it doesn't, convenient disposal. You know the problems, those who abuse the system. Odds are you don't even notice the people who are actually helped by it, most likely because they don't want to admit they're on the system and want to get off of government assistance.
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I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud, where a person goes to a single doctor, who prescribes narcotics, and then that person goes to the pharmacy to pick up the drugs, afterward that person sells the drugs on the street in a matter of hours and makes a lot of money.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
You can do the same thing with any prescription, my uncle had a lot of fun stories about people getting caught doing it. Seems that downing all the pills before the cops caught you was a common response, as such most of them wound up in the ER, where he found out.
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Now that healthcare takeover has passed. I will be confiscating your property by government proxy. I think I will run up to the local corrupt doc right now and get some narcotics. I have a right to eat, so I'm going to take even more from you so I can eat like a king on your dime. Why work when I can get all this free stuff. If you are a working man, then you will get less of everything (except for government control). Me and tens of millions of others are going to feast on you like a 10 pound tick on a dog, you will suffer greatly.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
If you are a working man, then you will get less of everything
I am a working man, and I'm not sure how it follows that changing who runs health insurance could change how much I get paid, or the cost of basic goods. If I was on welfare, then perhaps I'd worry that other handouts would drop as a result of the government investing in health care, but, I'm not.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
Why work when I can get all this free stuff.
Welfare will always be full of people who accept these sort of low standards. There's a welfare enclave near where I live, and I guarentee you that none of those people come close to the lifestyle I have from working for a living.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Ah, here I was figuring they may be the proper way to treat what ever condition it is that you have. Pretty much every drug classified as a narcotic has some effective use as a medical treatment. Well, good luck finding a corrupt doctor willing to risk his career for the pittance you could throw in his direction, you're no Rush Limbaugh. But I can assure you, you're not getting it free. If you'd like to see an actual explaination of what they've passed I could show you, I can also show you how much you're going to have to pay in health coverage in the next couple years if the attn. general's suit gets tossed.
Distind wrote:
Ah, here I was figuring they may be the proper way to treat what ever condition it is that you have
I already offered to pay for that, but he's scared of psychiatrists.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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You are in denial. The corruption is immense, most people on welfare also make money from medicare/medicaid, and if they don't use all of their food-stamps they sell them. It is the culture of welfare. They can't get a job because they either don't want to or they want to but they are scared of loosing their welfare.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
And for the first time since he started whining about health care I have to agree with him in one thing
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They can't get a job because they either don't want to or they want to but they are scared of loosing their welfare.
There needs to be some regulation to this, having a person make 2K a month in welfare is just simply not fair, the gov't should just allow welfare for 6 months or less (for example) and after that you're on your own, get a job. People is lazy, not saying that every person in the world is, but if you look on their way to see life, making 2k/month for 12 months is 24k/year, many families live with that, they do random jobs here and there to get a few extra bucks and bam you have it, people that is happy with that and they don't expect more and as long as they gov't allows this they will keep abusing the system, so the problem is not health care, is making the system to stop helping the people that is abusing it, change the rules of the game.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
most people on welfare also make money from medicare/medicaid, and if they don't use all of their food-stamps they sell them.
Even there's not trustworthy evidence outside, this is like a secret that everyone knows, that also needs to be regulated, you can add as many controls and people will always find a way to find new ways You can't leave capitalism or socialism/communism without regulations, this is a good example of what happens if you let it free, people trying to buy booze with food stamps for example. So the point, as far as I understand is not free health care, though is not free even with the changes they are making, it's just more affordable, the main reason and I agree with him, is having lazy people abusing the system, they need to be regulated.
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
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I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud, where a person goes to a single doctor, who prescribes narcotics, and then that person goes to the pharmacy to pick up the drugs, afterward that person sells the drugs on the street in a matter of hours and makes a lot of money.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud
Yes, and that is the problem. You are talking about Medicare and Medicaid, but contending the new system will be the same. I'm contending that it is possible that the new system can stop such abuses.
Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.
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Keith Barrow wrote:
*If* the docs are corrupt, its because the free market hasn't regulated them enough.
I know of people who go to a special doc for prescriptions, paid for by medicare/medicaid, and then they pick up the narcotics at the local pharmacy (for free of course), and then they sell the pills on the street. It is actually very common.
Keith Barrow wrote:
Takeover? AFAIK the reforms just make everyone get insurance, and that the insurance is provided to everybody at a reasonable rate. Ultimately the even insurance companies will benefit.
It does more than that, its thousands of pages thick.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I know of people who go to a special doc for prescriptions, paid for by medicare/medicaid, and then they pick up the narcotics at the local pharmacy (for free of course), and then they sell the pills on the street. It is actually very common.
You mean this was happening BEFORE the new health care bill ? So the new bill is irrelevant then, and what's relevant is the lack of regulation in America, the result of rampant capitalism ?
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Allowed people to have a vote on matters they do not understand, for people they wouldn't have in their homes, for a period set in stone, and without a veto if they disagree on policy not declared in a manifesto. Almost the same as the UK, and look what we got :(
------------------------------------ I will never again mention that I was the poster of the One Millionth Lounge Post, nor that it was complete drivel. Dalek Dave
I didn't. I voted against every liberalization of 'voter freedom'. I think you should have to show an ID to vote. In this case I am stuck with the sins of my fathers. :~ I am not a victim, I use the full power of my vote, I'm just a LOSER! ;P
Opacity, the new Transparency.
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And for the first time since he started whining about health care I have to agree with him in one thing
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
They can't get a job because they either don't want to or they want to but they are scared of loosing their welfare.
There needs to be some regulation to this, having a person make 2K a month in welfare is just simply not fair, the gov't should just allow welfare for 6 months or less (for example) and after that you're on your own, get a job. People is lazy, not saying that every person in the world is, but if you look on their way to see life, making 2k/month for 12 months is 24k/year, many families live with that, they do random jobs here and there to get a few extra bucks and bam you have it, people that is happy with that and they don't expect more and as long as they gov't allows this they will keep abusing the system, so the problem is not health care, is making the system to stop helping the people that is abusing it, change the rules of the game.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
most people on welfare also make money from medicare/medicaid, and if they don't use all of their food-stamps they sell them.
Even there's not trustworthy evidence outside, this is like a secret that everyone knows, that also needs to be regulated, you can add as many controls and people will always find a way to find new ways You can't leave capitalism or socialism/communism without regulations, this is a good example of what happens if you let it free, people trying to buy booze with food stamps for example. So the point, as far as I understand is not free health care, though is not free even with the changes they are making, it's just more affordable, the main reason and I agree with him, is having lazy people abusing the system, they need to be regulated.
I want to die like my grandfather- asleep, not like the passengers in his car, screaming!
You cant regulate that fraud away. It is a fundamental flaw of the socialist system, it is fraudulent to begin with. Anyone with a food-stamp card can go buy groceries for a friend and sell them to him for half the price of the groceries. With the drugs, just go to a doctor, and then a pharmacy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
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I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud, where a person goes to a single doctor, who prescribes narcotics, and then that person goes to the pharmacy to pick up the drugs, afterward that person sells the drugs on the street in a matter of hours and makes a lot of money.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
And he is pointing out that you started by saying you could do this now, as a result of the new bill, but now you're saying that you know people who have been doing it all along. Ergo, the new bill has changed nothing in that regard, and your original post connected two things that are unrelated.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud
Yes, and that is the problem. You are talking about Medicare and Medicaid, but contending the new system will be the same. I'm contending that it is possible that the new system can stop such abuses.
Dalek Dave: There are many words that some find offensive, Homosexuality, Alcoholism, Religion, Visual Basic, Manchester United, Butter. Pete o'Hanlon: If it wasn't insulting tools, I'd say you were dumber than a bag of spanners.
One of the benefits of government run insurance is that it gives the government a vested interest in controlling fraud and also in controlling profiteering of drug companies, etc. Under the current system it's no wonder they shrug and let them charge whatever they like.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud, where a person goes to a single doctor, who prescribes narcotics, and then that person goes to the pharmacy to pick up the drugs, afterward that person sells the drugs on the street in a matter of hours and makes a lot of money.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
where a person goes to a single doctor, who prescribes narcotics, and then that person goes to the pharmacy to pick up the drugs,
A
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
I'm talking about medicare/medicaid fraud,
B
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
afterward that person sells the drugs on the street in a matter of hours and makes a lot of money.
C Socialist system where people have medication covered so as not to be stupidly expensive. D A -> B -> C; This is what is above. A = D; This is what you are seeing. You know, fraud is going to happen no matter what. In the current system the people payign for it are the same people. We pay for insurance, fraud happens, they charge more because they can justify it. So it isn't like we aren't already paying for it. Currently there are plenty of laws against all this, I don't see how the government getting people to lower their prices so everyone can afford the drugs they need is going to change this.
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You cant regulate that fraud away. It is a fundamental flaw of the socialist system, it is fraudulent to begin with. Anyone with a food-stamp card can go buy groceries for a friend and sell them to him for half the price of the groceries. With the drugs, just go to a doctor, and then a pharmacy.
Watch the Fall of the Republic (High Quality 2:24:19)[^] Sons Of Liberty - Free Album[^] The True Soapbox is the Truthbox[^]
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
You cant regulate that fraud away. It is a fundamental flaw of the socialist system, it is fraudulent to begin with.
You're partially right - any system of welfare needs to either live with some abuse, or find that it locks out some people it's designed to help. You just can't help it. However, at least part of the problem is that if welfare really is $24k a year, that's twice what someone can earn on minimum wage. I'd hate to try to live on $24k, but I'd hate to try to live on $12k more. So, odds are that people working minimum wage are eligible for some form of welfare, which means that welfare is really a system to help big companies ( i.e. to promote capitalism ), not to help the people struggling to survive on half an average wage.
CaptainSeeSharp wrote:
With the drugs, just go to a doctor, and then a pharmacy.
It's probably an indication of the sort of area you live in that you claim all the doctors where you live are corrupt. However, again, they are corrupt under the current system, so the new health bill can't make that worse.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.
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Distind wrote:
Ah, here I was figuring they may be the proper way to treat what ever condition it is that you have
I already offered to pay for that, but he's scared of psychiatrists.
Christian Graus Driven to the arms of OSX by Vista. Read my blog to find out how I've worked around bugs in Microsoft tools and frameworks.